Ventra - Feedback and Updates

[Sam92]

I'll give you one. When the drivers do a relief, the ventra can go offline for a space of up to 8 blocks. More lost revenue.....

I noticed that about ventra readers when they first rolled out. A bus had deadheaded to the Dan Ryan to start runs on the N5 and I couldn't tap my card till the reader recognized that it was in service as N5 (which didnt occur until we got to 93rd and Cottage Grove. If it would've been 4 stops further I would've gotten a free ride.

[jajuan]

I'll give you one. When the drivers do a relief, the ventra can go offline for a space of up to 8 blocks. More lost revenue.....

A similar scenario is if a layover lasts long enough for a bus's automatic shutoff to kick in from the engine idling too long, the reader won't necessarily be back online. That usually happens if the operator lets the engine stay shutdown long enough for the Clever Devices unit to require that operator to log back in.

[artthouwill]

A similar scenario is if a layover lasts long enough for a bus's automatic shutoff to kick in from the engine idling too long, the reader won't necessarily be back online. That usually happens if the operator lets the engine stay shutdown long enough for the Clever Devices unit to require that operator to log back in.

The idling issue is an easy fix. The bus shuts off automatically for idling too long IF it is on low idle. Idling the bus on fast idle will fix that. However, I think the city has laws against bus idling for more than 3 minutes (perhaps that is only enforced downtown with OTR coaches).

How are the Ventra readers turned on? Is it automatically whenever the bus is running or is it turned on/off during the farebox log on/off? It would seem that there should be no issue if a driver relief is being made "mid-route".

[Busjack]

The idling issue is an easy fix. The bus shuts off automatically for idling too long IF it is on low idle. Idling the bus on fast idle will fix that. However, I think the city has laws against bus idling for more than 3 minutes (perhaps that is only enforced downtown with OTR coaches).

....

The point is supposed to be saving fuel and minimizing air pollution.

...

How are the Ventra readers turned on? Is it automatically whenever the bus is running or is it turned on/off during the farebox log on/off? It would seem that there should be no issue if a driver relief is being made "mid-route".

The question is whether it is tied to the farebox or the Clever Device. Posts above indicate Clever Device.

[BusHunter]

The point is supposed to be saving fuel and minimizing air pollution. The question is whether it is tied to the farebox or the Clever Device. Posts above indicate Clever Device.

Give that man a cigar!! Yeah, this happens mid route. The ventra reader will go blank and display not in use. If the driver cannot log into it everyone gets a free ride, who uses ventra. A smart person just needs to figure out when are the reliefs and board late or at the next stop and they ride for free.

[Busjack]

Today's story, not necessarily a glitch, goes back to whether thieves can scan and store the RFID codes, indicating that they would rather do so for the prepaid debit card account rather than transit value. But, in addition to safeguards mentioned (maybe the steel wallet ads weren't so farfetched), since the article says that First Data isn't saying how many debit card accounts have been activated, and we can bet darn few, it would seem to be a crapshoot to try to submit a Ventra card number to some merchant.

[owine]

I don't ride the bus regularly but I did over the holiday weekend. I can see why Ventra is not well received on buses, the readers are far slower. I had one reader get stuck on Processing for about 30 seconds and never changed. When I tapped a second time with Processing still on the screen, it successfully processed my ride. I was, however, charged properly for this single ride. I primarily ride the L and Ventra is in far better shape in rail stations than buses it seems. The CTA/Cubic metrics would confirm that as well.

[Busjack]

I don't ride the bus regularly but I did over the holiday weekend. I can see why Ventra is not well received on buses, the readers are far slower. I had one reader get stuck on Processing for about 30 seconds and never changed. When I tapped a second time with Processing still on the screen, it successfully processed my ride. I was, however, charged properly for this single ride. I primarily ride the L and Ventra is in far better shape in rail stations than buses it seems. The CTA/Cubic metrics would confirm that as well.

The question would be if this is a function of the bus needing to rely on the cell phone link, while the turnstiles are probably hard wired to some internet or network connection.

[Railwaymodeler]

I recently got a Ventra Circuitbreaker pass in the mail. Now I wonder, how do they handle it when these free ride passes fail to read? Anyone have any insight?

[Busjack]

I recently got a Ventra Circuitbreaker pass in the mail. Now I wonder, how do they handle it when these free ride passes fail to read? Anyone have any insight?

Unless this is like when some old guy assaulted a bus driver over the prior version of the free pass, just so CTA could get passenger count, it should be sufficient to flash the pass. At least Metra indicates so.

[Railwaymodeler]

Thanks. I can't find any "official" proceedure anywhere, and Metra does not have to worry about machines failing to read them. There are forum members here that are bus drivers, I figured maybe one of them could give the policy from CTA or Pace, or at least the policy as explained to them.

[See Tea Eh]

http://www.vancouversun.com/Compass+card+rollout+delayed+West+Coast+Express/9225748/story.html

In Vancouver, they've delayed rollout of their Compass Card by several months. Compass uses the exact same Cubic technology that Ventra uses. Can't tell if the problems they're facing, resulting in the delay, are related to the issues CTA has with Ventra, or if it's something different.

[sw4400]

Still trying to maintain hope for Ventra, since I've had no issues with my card up to this point *knocks on wood*. But it sounds like Cubic is the NABI of Transit Fare Providers... Story

[BusHunter]

Latest glitch tonight was that ventra was only displaying rides up to 12/1 not 12/2. Someone I was with paying a cash ventra fare was wondering when their two hours was up. They looked and then I looked neither account displayed past 12/1 so I guess they had to ride on blind faith, because they sure were not going to find out at ventrachicago.com.

[busfan2847]

Latest glitch tonight was that ventra was only displaying rides up to 12/1 not 12/2. Someone I was with paying a cash ventra fare was wondering when their two hours was up. They looked and then I looked neither account displayed past 12/1 so I guess they had to ride on blind faith, because they sure were not going to find out at ventrachicago.com.

Yes I noticed that too. The current transit balance was correct but the transactions from 12/2 were not in the itemized list. I noticed the difference because my card had autoloaded. This morning the transactions from yesterday are there.

[Busjack]

http://www.vancouversun.com/Compass+card+rollout+delayed+West+Coast+Express/9225748/story.html

In Vancouver, they've delayed rollout of their Compass Card by several months. Compass uses the exact same Cubic technology that Ventra uses. Can't tell if the problems they're facing, resulting in the delay, are related to the issues CTA has with Ventra, or if it's something different.

The article points out two things: One the same and one different:

• The initial rollout is supposed to be on the West Coast Express--a commuter rail line with zone fares (and a balky website). The article also mentioned a fare gate program. So, they tried to start first with what this area is going to try last--Metra.
• The same is the complaint about the online registration system. Apparently they had troubles starting out first with their equivalent of ADA cards, which here was last.

[jajuan]

Still trying to maintain hope for Ventra, since I've had no issues with my card up to this point *knocks on wood*. But it sounds like Cubic is the NABI of Transit Fare Providers... Story

Well CBS 2 News' source for this information is late. Much of the information in this story has already been reported in (if I'm remember the post correctly) a news article about similar problems with Cubic's development of a smart fare card for London's transit system. The article was linked in this thread by another forum member last month as I recall. In addition to London, those North American cities in the CBS 2 story and I think one in Australia were also mentioned as having problems. And why does every time CTA has problems with a product from a supplier or vendor now, that company is said to be the NABI of whatever it is that company is selling? Making those sorts of statements only serves to exaggerate or underestimate how big a particular problem might be.

[Amtrak41]

http://www.vancouversun.com/Compass+card+rollout+delayed+West+Coast+Express/9225748/story.html

In Vancouver, they've delayed rollout of their Compass Card by several months. Compass uses the exact same Cubic technology that Ventra uses. Can't tell if the problems they're facing, resulting in the delay, are related to the issues CTA has with Ventra, or if it's something different.

Their card has orientation that is horizontal , not vertical

[jajuan]

This morning when I tapped my Ventra card on the bus I got the usual 'Go' screen letting me know my card was accepted but it also showed some form of warning at the bottom of the screen. I didn't get to see what the message was because the screen blinked too quickly back to the standby 'Tap card below' screen. I just know the text appeared black within an orange border and was preceded by an exclamation point. I wondering if the message was a warning reminder that it's about time to reload my card as the pass I currently have loaded on it is set to expire on Thursday.

[owine]

This morning when I tapped my Ventra card on the bus I got the usual 'Go' screen letting me know my card was accepted but it also showed some form of warning at the bottom of the screen. I didn't get to see what the message was because the screen blinked too quickly back to the standby 'Tap card below' screen. I just know the text appeared black within an orange border and was preceded by an exclamation point. I wondering if the message was a warning reminder that it's about time to reload my card as the pass I currently have loaded on it is set to expire on Thursday.

I have seen this, the warning says something to the effect of "Pass expiring soon". They have actually had this since the initial rollout, I saw it very early on.

[owine]

The question would be if this is a function of the bus needing to rely on the cell phone link, while the turnstiles are probably hard wired to some internet or network connection.

I think that is a fair assumption. Although if I remember correctly, CC/CCPs did offline transactions that were uploaded at a later time. Perhaps some sort of hybrid online/offline transaction mechanism would serve Ventra better or changes to the current mobile internet infrastructure should be explored.

[Busjack]

Well CBS 2 News' source for this information is late. Much of the information in this story has already been reported in (if I'm remember the post correctly) a news article about similar problems with Cubic's development of a smart fare card for London's transit system. The article was linked in this thread by another forum member last month as I recall. In addition to London, those North American cities in the CBS 2 story and I think one in Australia were also mentioned as having problems. And why does every time CTA has problems with a product from a supplier or vendor now, that company is said to be the NABI of whatever it is that company is selling? Making those sorts of statements only serves to exaggerate or underestimate how big a particular problem might be.

There was a reference above that Gapers Block had the story on Nov. 11. That story also mentioned other Vancouver problems.

As far as sw's usual NABI comment:

• This is the second time CTA went whole hog on an unproven product.
• The only thing that has avoided a lawsuit at this point is that CTA says it hasn't paid anything, and Cubic is apparently o.k. with that, as opposed to NABI, which sued for the unpaid about 13% of that contract.

The one difference may be that NABI stated that it would inspect and repair the buses, when it never did, while the question is still open whether Cubic will honor its promise to fix the system, given such things as CTA is relying on Cubic's metrics.

I'll add that this is the second time CTA tried to B.S. the public, until the defects became too obvious. Remember Rodriguez saying that Huberman was in secret conversations with the FTA regarding taking NABIs off the street 6 months before they did? Then there was this PR campaign that all the problems were the users' fault.

Too many similarities to ignore.

[jajuan]

There was a reference above that Gapers Block had the story on Nov. 11. That story also mentioned other Vancouver problems.

As far as sw's usual NABI comment:

• This is the second time CTA went whole hog on an unproven product.
• The only thing that has avoided a lawsuit at this point is that CTA says it hasn't paid anything, and Cubic is apparently o.k. with that, as opposed to NABI, which sued for the unpaid about 13% of that contract.

The one difference may be that NABI stated that it would inspect and repair the buses, when it never did, while the question is still open whether Cubic will honor its promise to fix the system, given such things as CTA is relying on Cubic's metrics.

I'll add that this is the second time CTA tried to B.S. the public, until the defects became too obvious. Remember Rodriguez saying that Huberman was in secret conversations with the FTA regarding taking NABIs off the street 6 months before they did? Then there was this PR campaign that all the problems were the users' fault.

Too many similarities to ignore.

no I'm not saying there aren't any similarities as far as Cubic goes. My point is the blanket comparison may in the Ventra case underestimate how deep the problems working with Cubic may be given Cubic was able to mask its shoddy history overall due to the earlier report that Cubic's work outside the States and North America may be even worse than the problems that have cropped up with US and Canadian TAs. And in regards to the comparison of NABI and the current acquisition of the 5000-series railcars, it was an exaggeration since all the issues on that front were mainly minor and had more to do with lapses in quality control.

[See Tea Eh]

Their card has orientation that is horizontal , not vertical

Makes no difference as to its actual function. It's just printing on the face of the card. You could hold the card horizontal, vertical, upside down, flipped over, etc. and it would work the same.

[BusHunter]

I overheard someone on the yellow line say that new york and another city got rid of their smart card system, due to associated problems. (Sounds like ny's was a bank problem)I looked at the new york times and that's a true statement. They hope to reorganize and get a smart card plan in 2-5 years. So CTA can scuttle Ventra if it chooses. That may be what happens if this becomes a legal fight.