New Ideas

[Busjack]

If anything the #2 is more duplicative of the #29 to Navy Pier than the #6 would be because the #2 travels on State in both directions. The #6 just makes more sense to me than the #2. If they are concerned about traffic, they could extend the #6 to Navy Pier on weekends only. As far as the #2 accessing MSI, that's a poor connection because the last stop inbound is on Stony Island. I'm sure most tourists or even the average rider doesn't even think about that connection, yet alone use it.

While odds are 99:1 that CTA isn't going to do it, it brings up the question of how CTA figured out the north terminals in the South LSD restructuring, when it appeared at the time that 99% of the thought was on the south ends of the routes. For instance, while 6 was taken off Jeffery, the part north of 67th was left as was, and similarly 14 continued to go to Ogilvie station, even though it became the only downtown route on Jeffery. The only changes I recall are 2 to Navy Pier instead of Michigan-Ohio and X28 (now 28) first to IMD, and then cut back to Union Station.

[jajuan]

If anything the #2 is more duplicative of the #29 to Navy Pier than the #6 would be because the #2 travels on State in both directions. The #6 just makes more sense to me than the #2. If they are concerned about traffic, they could extend the #6 to Navy Pier on weekends only. As far as the #2 accessing MSI, that's a poor connection because the last stop inbound is on Stony Island. I'm sure most tourists or even the average rider doesn't even think about that connection, yet alone use it.

And seriously how hard is it to walk over to Stony Island from MSI? It's the same distance as walking up to 56th and Hyde Park for the 6. And from personal experience 56th/Hyde Pk is a much more crowded stop, which is why I never walk to that stop to grab the 6 when the 10 isn't running. I walk over to Stony. So the Stony stop at 57th Drive being an inconvenience doesn't really fly in this case especially given you don't have to cross MSI's parking lot like you do to get to 56th/Hyde Park trying to get the 6.

[jajuan]

While odds are 99:1 that CTA isn't going to do it, it brings up the question of how CTA figured out the north terminals in the South LSD restructuring, when it appeared at the time that 99% of the thought was on the south ends of the routes. For instance, while 6 was taken off Jeffery, the part north of 67th was left as was, and similarly 14 continued to go to Ogilvie station, even though it became the only downtown route on Jeffery. The only changes I recall are 2 to Navy Pier instead of Michigan-Ohio and X28 (now 28) first to IMD, and then cut back to Union Station.

I have no memory of X28 ever going to IMD. With the exception of it terminating at Greyhound (Harrison/Des Plaines) briefly during Wacker reconstruction I though it always terminated at Union Station.

[Busjack]

I have no memory of X28 ever going to IMD. With the exception of it terminating at Greyhound (Harrison/Des Plaines) briefly during Wacker reconstruction I though it always terminated at Union Station.

The original one was to IMD, but CTA quickly posted that there wasn't sufficient ridership.

[MetroShadow]

I have no memory of X28 ever going to IMD. With the exception of it terminating at Greyhound (Harrison/Des Plaines) briefly during Wacker reconstruction I though it always terminated at Union Station.

August 2003 - Fall 2004

[busfan2847]

I have no memory of X28 ever going to IMD. With the exception of it terminating at Greyhound (Harrison/Des Plaines) briefly during Wacker reconstruction I though it always terminated at Union Station.

28 Stoney Island Express revised 8/31/2003 to run from 103^rd via Stoney Island, LSD (Express), Balbo,

Michigan, Adams/Jackson to Canal (Union Stn). Extended RH only to Medical district via Van Buren to Paulina returning via Jackson. Revised to operate on Hyde Park Blvd rather than Lake Park Blvd north of 56^th and Medical district service withdrawn 12/7/2003. Downtown service reduced to peak hours and renumbered X28 6/19/2004

[BusHunter]

And seriously how hard is it to walk over to Stony Island from MSI? It's the same distance as walking up to 56th and Hyde Park for the 6. And from personal experience 56th/Hyde Pk is a much more crowded stop, which is why I never walk to that stop to grab the 6 when the 10 isn't running. I walk over to Stony. So the Stony stop at 57th Drive being an inconvenience doesn't really fly in this case especially given you don't have to cross MSI's parking lot like you do to get to 56th/Hyde Park trying to get the 6.

It's not that it's hard, it's that people don't know about it or it doesn't come to mind. How many people have you seen walk west from the museum? Also if you look at the person's ridership pattern, they will always walk to the nearest stop that is going in the direction of travel. (unless the other stop is on top of them) Why walk south or west to travel north? Now if the #2 pulled into the MSI driveway, like the #55 or #10 does then it may get more riders.

[jajuan]

28 Stoney Island Express revised 8/31/2003 to run from 103^rd via Stoney Island, LSD (Express), Balbo,

Michigan, Adams/Jackson to Canal (Union Stn). Extended RH only to Medical district via Van Buren to Paulina returning via Jackson. Revised to operate on Hyde Park Blvd rather than Lake Park Blvd north of 56^th and Medical district service withdrawn 12/7/2003. Downtown service reduced to peak hours and renumbered X28 6/19/2004

Ok it was a brief few months during that moment when 28 was labeled Stony Island Express. That's why I didn't remember it. Thanks guys.

[jajuan]

It's not that it's hard, it's that people don't know about it or it doesn't come to mind. How many people have you seen walk west from the museum? Also if you look at the person's ridership pattern, they will always walk to the nearest stop that is going in the direction of travel. (unless the other stop is on top of them) Why walk south or west to travel north? Now if the #2 pulled into the MSI driveway, like the #55 or #10 does then it may get more riders.

I've seen plenty of people walk to Stony for the very reasons I alluded to, namely the 56th Street stop having a such a high number of people and not wanting to walk along the bus/taxi drive way (not parking lot. I misspoke there as the parking lot is underground now after MSI's remodeling). And to be fair a number of those people have used one of the ground level exits rather than the main doors that lead you down first to the ticket area before coming back up due to the current structure of the museum parking lot because they didn't want to be bothered with using stairs to go down just to leave the museum. At any rate, a good number of those who get past MSI's mini maze of a main entrance one way or the other opt for walking over to Stony because let's face it a good number of people visiting MSI aren't tourists going there for the first time and therefore have grown savvy that unless the 6 is already crowded approaching the museum, they have a better chance at snagging a seat. Your thought of the 2 stopping in the bus/taxi driveway that Museum Drive has become possibly has merit but it would have to access it at the Hyde Park entrance since the driveway at the Cornell side is now the entrance to the underground parking lot. Either way extending the 6 to Navy Pier isn't needed. CTA just has to do a better job at promoting the 2 as another option for folks leaving the Museum during weekday PM rush.

[BusHunter]

Your right that the CTA doesn't promote the #2 that well, especially with the ride #6 to downtown signs over by 56th/Hyde Park. From what I've seen of the #2, the reverse commute ridership is kind of weak anyway. They mostly pick up the U of C crowd and they have alternative options. With the #59, #192 and #171, #172, the ME there just may be too many service alternatives for that area.

[Busjack]

Your right that the CTA doesn't promote the #2 that well, especially with the ride #6 to downtown signs over by 56th/Hyde Park. From what I've seen of the #2, the reverse commute ridership is kind of weak anyway. They mostly pick up the U of C crowd and they have alternative options. With the #59, #192 and #171, #172, the ME there just may be too many service alternatives for that area.

I'm not quite sure of the rationale for the return trip, other than possibly picking up those on the loop when 2 was extended from the former terminal at Drexel Square.

People used to have no trouble walking from the 57th St. ME station to the Museum, but i don't know how it is now.

59 isn't that relevant, since it ends at 60th and Stony, and runs on 61st, which (at least was) the invisible boundary between Hyde Park and Woodlawn.

55 lays over at the Museum's front door.

And there is the question whether MSI will continue paying for 10.

[ctrabs74]

Your right that the CTA doesn't promote the #2 that well, especially with the ride #6 to downtown signs over by 56th/Hyde Park. From what I've seen of the #2, the reverse commute ridership is kind of weak anyway. They mostly pick up the U of C crowd and they have alternative options. With the #59, #192 and #171, #172, the ME there just may be too many service alternatives for that area.

I thought CTA was giving up the 171/172/192 when their contract with U of C expires. Or am I thinking of some other CTA arrangement?

[dann]

The 171/172 was picked up for another 5 years. And I think the 2 should be an all-day route, considering how crowded the 6 can be at times.

[Busjack]

I thought CTA was giving up the 171/172/192 when their contract with U of C expires. Or am I thinking of some other CTA arrangement?

The 171/172 was picked up for another 5 years. ...

Press Release here.

[BusHunter]

The 171/172 was picked up for another 5 years. And I think the 2 should be an all-day route, considering how crowded the 6 can be at times.

Probably the reason they don't do that is because there is just not enough ridership on the southern loop segment of the #2 to justify that midday. What they should do, and this would be kind of interesting, is to short turn some #6's at MSI midday, maybe even in the rush hour during museum hours. They short turn #6's on saturday at 63rd, and the service seems better. The rush hour service downtown can develop big gaps, it's not unusual to see 30 minute gaps at the 5:00 PM hour. (service should be about every 10 min) Short turning buses whether at 63rd or MSI would clear this up.

[Busjack]

Probably the reason they don't do that is because there is just not enough ridership on the southern loop segment of the #2 to justify that midday. What they should do, and this would be kind of interesting, is to short turn some #6's at MSI midday, maybe even in the rush hour during museum hours. They short turn #6's on saturday at 63rd, and the service seems better. The rush hour service downtown can develop big gaps, it's not unusual to see 30 minute gaps at the 5:00 PM hour. (service should be about every 10 min) Short turning buses whether at 63rd or MSI would clear this up.

There used to be a lot more short turns at 63rd (IIRC, every other bus during the rush hour), so apparently that did not work.

[BusHunter]

When was this, during the MAN era? (I can't seem to remember this)

[Busjack]

When was this, during the MAN era? (I can't seem to remember this)

It would have been during the NABI era, and definitely after the restructuring that resulted in the current 6.

I noted the IIRC, as that was my impression seeing buses on State St., as I haven't archived schedules.

[jajuan]

Busjack is correct that there did used to be a lot more weekday short turns at 63rd on the 6. They were pretty much every other bus as he remembers. Now if I remember correctly a lot of those short turns died with the service reductions of 2010. Now as for the 2, if CTA promoted it properly they could get a lot more bang for their buck with those PM return trips to downtown. Think about for a sec. If folks knew that they could get straight downtown in the PM rush over winding through Hyde Park along Hyde Park Blvd and Lake Park especially if it's that part of the year that the 10 is weekends only, they'd flock to the 2 also and relieve some of the pressure off the 6,

[Busjack]

... Now as for the 2, if CTA promoted it properly they could get a lot more bang for their buck with those PM return trips to downtown. ...

As far as that goes, does CTA promote any service (again especially since the 2010 cuts) other than the "Red" Line goes to both ball parks?

There used to be Pace releases such as take the (one) bus (a day) to Lemont, or mailers saying getting to Golf Mill was real convenient, but except for the BOS promotions, I don't see that anymore, either.

[jajuan]

As far as that goes, does CTA promote any service (again especially since the 2010 cuts) other than the "Red" Line goes to both ball parks?

There used to be Pace releases such as take the (one) bus (a day) to Lemont, or mailers saying getting to Golf Mill was real convenient, but except for the BOS promotions, I don't see that anymore, either.

Well if they showed more imagination beyond that again and highlighted buses and trains that are near popular attractions, it probably would help in the ridership department and they wouldn't be crying broke as much. Speaking of ridership, I wonder how much the recent spikes in gas prices yet again is having on their numbers.

[See Tea Eh]

I think the 2 should be an all-day route, considering how crowded the 6 can be at times.

Wouldn't the solution to that then be to add service to the 6?

[dann]

Regarding adding service to the 6, there would need to be more buses at 103rd to handle the added load, and unless the 6 is shared with 77th or any other garage, I don't see other garages giving up any buses at this time.

[Busjack]

Well if they showed more imagination beyond that again and highlighted buses and trains that are near popular attractions, it probably would help in the ridership department and they wouldn't be crying broke as much. Speaking of ridership, I wonder how much the recent spikes in gas prices yet again is having on their numbers.

Basically, there is dann's point, plus the point I made above that CTA is not in the business of promoting ridership because it is a loss, such as similar to CPS not promoting that children in parochial school and the suburbs fill the empty classrooms in schools it is closing by becoming CPS students.

Unless there is some bus that is only marginally light, more ridership means having to increase service and costs. The solution for deadheads seems to be reflected in the 77th St. buses stored downtown thread.

Either the 2 reverse rush is pulling its weight, or it isn't. There isn't a 26 reverse rush.

[artthouwill]

The reroute of the 28 (formerly X28)) via Hyde Park Blvd was supposed to ease crowding on the 6. However there are still the same 2 problems. The first is the frequencies on the 28 aren't enough to put a dent in the ridership on the 6. The second is the downtown routing to/from Union Station. Even if someone had a choice between the two routes in Hyde Park and could take either, he most likely would have to make a choice downtown, and since the 6 has a higher frequency and more artic busrs, that choice for most is easier. Perhaps if the 28 went to Ogilvie instead, or just followed the 6 routing to Michigan/Wacker, more would use the 28, and possibly would've when the route was first extended downtown and revised to operate via Hyde Park Blvd. Since the Hyde Park corridor provides the bulk of downtown ridership for both routes, alternating the routes would create the high frequencies through that corridor and the right balance of frequencies south of 67th on both routes. This worked very well for the most part with the former 145/146, except the imbalance created for heavier 146 service for routing to the Museum Campus.

Remember the 6 doesn't need a high rush hour frequency south of 67th because of the 26. To me, the simple fix was modifying the 28 rather than adding short turn 6s that would have to deadhead to 77th or (especially) 103rd.

I should also note that the 2 and the 6 share SB routing from Michigan/Wacker to Lake Park/Hyde Pk Blvd, giving riders between 47th and near Hyde Pk Blvd the option of taking either the 2 or the 6. If the 28 were routed this way, couldn't South Hyde Park Blvd riders and riders north of 67th/Stony Island enjoy having an option between the 6 and 28?