CTA Blue Line Crash at O'Hare

[BusHunter]

Not even Kelly can save this operator. If the union were smart they would look for a better head to represent them. I mean the NTSB bans this guy from their investigations!! I'm surprised there isn't some kind of federal charge against impeding a federal investigation. It's getting where no one can believe what this guy says. I mean interfering with the Forest Pk incident and this. There's a time where you gotta say "hasta la vista".

[Busjack]

...I'm surprised there isn't some kind of federal charge against impeding a federal investigation....

There could be, but the NTSB would have to show how their investigation was impeded (more than likely by destroying evidence or tampering with witnesses, which wasn't alleged here).

More relevant is whether the union, through Kelly, violated the operator's right to fair representation. Note my prior reference to A Rod. The union probably should provide her Independent counsel.

But as they often say, "due process, then off with her head."

[jajuan]

On brighter note, I read a Trib article in today's RedEye about a guy, who works for the TSA, who saw a woman who fell off the platform at the Blue Line Chicago stop and jumped down on the tracks with his bright orange Illinois Illini hoodie on and waved his arms to slow a oncoming train that was pulling into the station. Turns out that the operator of that train was attentive enough to have already seen that the poor lady had fallen on to the tracks and was already slowing down. Thankfully they got the lady off the tracks and took her to a nearby hospital. The guy never got her name, but his name is Eddie Palacios. Mr. Palacios waved off any praise of being a hero, included from his bosses at the TSA, which is where he was headed back to in Washington, DC. He happened to be waiting for a Blue Line train to O'Hare. Mr. Palacios might not think he's a hero, but he did a very brave thing. And the operator of that train deserves some praise too for already seeing that poor lady had fallen on the tracks after his former coworker dozed off last week and caused that accident that damaged and shutdown the O'Hare station for practically all of last week and caused the early retirements of 3061-62.

[artthouwill]

Well someone got their wish,. The operator involved in this crash was terminated.

[jajuan]

Well someone got their wish,. The operator involved in this crash was terminated.

Given the letter of the bargaining agreement, there was no way around that happening since this is her second time dozing off behind the throttle of a train, which can be defined as the two serious safety violations required for her termination.

[jajuan]

A few got their wish..... shows that some have no knowlege about transportation that they write about all the time. I wonder do they know what it's like to drive a "L" train???

You don't need to know what it's like to drive an L train to know that dozing off at the throttle is a serious safety violation. Do we need somebody to be killed or seriously hurt to prove that? But the lapses still don't stop only at the operator level though. I'd still like to know if this woman got more than just the reported reprimand for the first time she dozed off. Did she get retrained or get shadowed by an instructor again a while longer before they allowed her back at the throttle alone?

[TripleTransit1]

I knew it! I just had that feeling that they were gonna fire her. The Union will strike back at any moment now.

[sw4400]

A few got their wish..... shows that some have no knowlege about transportation that they write about all the time. I wonder do they know what it's like to drive a "L" train???

She could legitimately suffer from a sleep disorder like Narcolepsy. If you were her boss, would you want her running a train of yours knowing that she has fallen asleep before and overshot a station even if it's just by one car because she dozed off? What might happen if they indeed kept her and she dozed a third time, despite the scheduling changes the CTA implemented? Would it be a crash into another train on the elevated platform somewhere derailing both trains and possible re-creating 1977 all over again?

The CTA did the right thing for the safety of it's passengers here... on a final note, imagine that O'Hare crash occurring after 9a, when O'Hare is buzzing with people leaving and arriving and maybe those escalators and stars are full of people leaving/arriving. How many people would've been injured in that train and on that platform and worse yet, killed as the train plowed up the escalator into them?

[sw4400]

I knew it! I just had that feeling that they were gonna fire her. The Union will strike back at any moment now.

Not much they can do according to the contract which they agreed on to CTA...

The CTA’s contract with the Amalgamated Mass Transit Union authorizes the agency to fire rail operators who have had two serious safety violations in a short period of time.

She had her two serious safety violations(overshooting Belmont due to dozing, crashing into O'Hare due to dozing) in a short period of time(Belmont in February, O'Hare in March). She's done...

[artthouwill]

Without admitting fault, CTA has made some changes according to an article on the homepage. These include:

Those changes included:

— Upping the minimum hours off between shifts from 8 to 10 hours.

— Limiting operators with less than one year of experience to operating a train no more than 32 hours in one week.

— Requiring at least one day off in any seven-day period. No limit is currently required.

— Setting a 12-hour maximum for the number of actual train operating hours within a 14-hour time period.

— Giving all rail operators another round of “fatigue awareness training

It is federal law to work no more than either 60hrs in a 7 period or 70hrs in an 8 day period. Once that threshold has been met, a day off is required.

D.O.T. does not permit more than 10 driving hours in a 15 hour day. How does CTA get away with 12 hour throttle time?

[Sam92]

What is wrong with this photo?

What is right?

he overshot, that's whats wrong....idk maybe he did right by stopping ASAP keeping the doors closed?

[jajuan]

Right. But that doesn't answer the specific questions I posed about the operator now terminated after causing the latest Blue Line accident. And it does not change what I said that it doesn't take an operator or any extensive rail operations knowledge to realize this woman met the two serious safety infractions in a short period of time threshold referenced in collective bargaining agreement agreed to by twice dozing off at the throttle of a moving train in the span of maybe a month to month and a half time frame depending upon what the date of the February incident was. As sw said in his own response to chicagopcclcar's statement about how we don't know how the rail lines are operated, does it need to be a third chance for her to nod off at the throttle again to make it obvious that her termination was warranted as spelled out in the contract that the union agreed to and ratified?

[TripleTransit1]

What is wrong with this photo?

What is right?

Isn't this the train that the now-fired operator was on last month when she passed up the Belmont station?

[Busjack]

Isn't this the train that the now-fired operator was on last month when she passed up the Belmont station?

No, because the Belmont station is in a subway.

[Busjack]

I knew it! I just had that feeling that they were gonna fire her. The Union will strike back at any moment now.

What kind of strike back were you expecting? A wildcat strike shutting down the system? As pointed out, that would violate the collective bargaining agreement.

A couple of CTA employees get fired every month.

[Guest]

A few got their wish..... shows that some have no knowlege about transportation that they write about all the time. I wonder do they know what it's like to drive a "L" train???

Its not about knowing how to operate a CTA train! I was a CTA bus operator for eight years! And a Pace bus operator for four years! My experience is on the bus side. I may not know how to drive an L train, but what I do know is, you don't drive an eight car L train or a CTA bus either empty or with passengers aboard while your asleep! Ive worked the same rough hours driving a CTA bus and it is tough at night working late shifts. I have scars of my own working at CTA! But regardless of what CTA rules/regulations may or may not state, this operator was in control of that train! And unfortunately her inattention to her duties nearly killed people! With two repeated and very serious safety violations within months, I think the correct decision was made to terminate the L operator. What does that say about the safety of our transit system??? The people riding our trains and buses including many of you here!!! Expect to arrive SAFELY! Obviously some here are missing an important point! Some here dont seem to stop and think about the potential catastrophe that could have occurred had this happened at a busy time! This operator chose to make an irresponsible decision. I ride CTA trains all the time, I don't want to ride a train with a sleepy operator at the controls! Just imagine being one of those passengers on that train who could have been more seriously injured, paralyzed or killed! Ask yourselves, Would you want to ride a CTA train or bus with an operator who is not paying attention to what theyre doing up front in that cab??? In this case, a sleepy train operator! As a nine year Chicago firefighter, I have seen horrible incidents involving passengers and CTA trains that I will not go into details. Some here don't understand what its like to be a first responder having to respond to something like this! The firemen Ive spoken to that responded that night tell me after what they saw, they were amazed that no one was killed! Those of you who are defending the now former operator, I don't know what else to tell you! But I do know none of you here can dispute the argument and important question... Would you have wanted to be on that train with the operator falling asleep at the controls???

[Guest]

Well someone got their wish,. The operator involved in this crash was terminated.

If youre referring to me, No, I do not WISH for this operator to be "terminated" but I think it was the right decision! Ask yourself, would you have wanted to be on that train not knowing the operator was not paying attention to her job! Would you have wanted to experience what those people on that train experienced??? So no one make me the "bad guy" here!

Its obvious some here don't see the point!

[jajuan]

If youre referring to me, No, I do not WISH for this operator to be "terminated" but I think it was the right decision! Ask yourself, would you have wanted to be on that train not knowing the operator was not paying attention to her job! Would you have wanted to experience what those people on that train experienced??? So don't make me the "bad guy" here! Its obvious some here don't see the point!

I don't think he was speaking of any one person. There were other folks besides you who thought the right decision with this being her second dozing off incident, this time resulting in a serious accident with major property damage but thankfully no fatalities or very serious injuries, was for CTA to terminate her. So I think you're quite a bit too quick to react because your emotions are already high from your very valid point that this could have been much worse had this occurred later in the morning. Now that CTA has corrected one wrong, how about all of us start calming down, taking a step back, and let NTSB finish its investigation as to what were the other contributing factors for this train to go catapulting over that bumper and climbing part of the way of up those stairs and escalator. As I've been saying since day one, she was but one piece out of several in the puzzle of as to why that train ended up on the stairs and escalator even if she was obviously the catalyst. There's still the matter of the trips that were supposed to slow the train down but didn't as well as the question of what was up with the bumper that it didn't help slow the train down if not stop it completely because of the speed but instead catapulted it up into the stairway. NTSB needs to find the answers to those questions because CTA's job isn't done just because the operator is gone. It needs to know what's going on with its infrastructure so it can get it fixed and corrected to be able to serve properly as part of the checks and balances it's supposed to be to an inattentive yard worker or rail operator.

[ctrabs74]

This was in a post Trainorders......subscribe/ website:

"HOS (Hours of Service) applies only to railroads that come under CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) and FRA oversight/enforcement.

CTA (like METRO, MARTA and other self-contained transit systems that do not interchange with railroads) does not come under the provisions of CFR that govern railroads, including HOS.

One could certainly argue that maybe it -- or something like it -- should, but right now it does not."

And, if I'm reading this right, for systems that operate both railroad and subway-elevated lines such as SEPTA (Philadelphia) and MBTA (Boston), those HOS regulations only apply to railroad and not to those transit agency's other rail operations (subway, streetcar, etc.). Am I in fact understanding that correctly?

[andrethebusman]

I agree - the operator in question was unfortunately unable to handle the job. Station over-runs are not necessarily the result of being asleep, though in her case it apparently was. You can be fully awake and still put a door out if for instance it is very cold and there is ice forming on the rail. I remember a few nights when only way to stop was with track brakes, as applying service brakes only resulted in train going into a slide. Back in the 1960's this was a big problem when especially on Ravenswood you had mostly 6000's but still a few 4000's, which had vastly different braking characteristics. If you had a motorman driving a 4000 train first time in several weeks, he might momentarily forget what type he had, and apply brakes a bit too late, and with no track brakes on 4000's, once you were sliding, there was nothing you could do about it except ride it to a stop wherever it stopped. But her mistake was in admitting her sins. You NEVER, EVER, admit to anything. Make them prove it.

[TripleTransit1]

What kind of strike back were you expecting? A wildcat strike shutting down the system? As pointed out, that would violate the collective bargaining agreement.

A couple of CTA employees get fired every month.

I though I heard on the news that something would happen if she got fired.

[jajuan]

I agree - the operator in question was unfortunately unable to handle the job. Station over-runs are not necessarily the result of being asleep, though in her case it apparently was. You can be fully awake and still put a door out if for instance it is very cold and there is ice forming on the rail. I remember a few nights when only way to stop was with track brakes, as applying service brakes only resulted in train going into a slide. Back in the 1960's this was a big problem when especially on Ravenswood you had mostly 6000's but still a few 4000's, which had vastly different braking characteristics. If you had a motorman driving a 4000 train first time in several weeks, he might momentarily forget what type he had, and apply brakes a bit too late, and with no track brakes on 4000's, once you were sliding, there was nothing you could do about it except ride it to a stop wherever it stopped. But her mistake was in admitting her sins. You NEVER, EVER, admit to anything. Make them prove it.

Oh no. She did the right thing by being honest. The public does not need her potentially dangerous inability to handle the job going unknown and going any further. The only spot she was wronged was Kelly initially throwing her under the bus by blabbing away to the media that she admitted to him that she nodded off after the first time she talked to him soon after the accident. And then he wanted to fight her dismissal after the fact? What kind of union representation is that? If anyone did her in, it was Kelly by screwing up her chances at fair due process by being a motor mouth.

[4CottageGrove95th]

But her mistake was in admitting her sins. You NEVER, EVER, admit to anything. Make them prove it.

For what it's worth, her work ethic may not have been the best. But I'm sure glad she didn't have your attitude about the infractions she committed.

[Busjack]

I though I heard on the news that something would happen if she got fired.

Yes, Kelly getting his mouth on a later newscast.

[sw4400]

Well the NTSB has concluded that the trip stops were too close to stop the train. Still doesn't get the Operator off the hook as she is just as responsible, but that's beyond the fact now as she's terminated.

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