7900-series Nova LFS - Updates

[garmon757]

that's good to hear we're finally getting somewhere!!

We'll be getting somewhere if there's at least 4-6 buses per week. We only had 3 new ones during the last 2 weeks if I'm not mistaking.

[sw4400]

We'll be getting somewhere if there's at least 4-6 buses per week. We only had 3 new ones during the last 2 weeks if I'm not mistaking.

I agree.... 3 buses in a few weeks' time is hardly something to jump up about. We should be getting 5-6 in a weeks' time and the CTA should get them out in about 7-10 days from delivery on the road. I wouldn't expect Nova Bus getting any future business from CTA in either the 40' or 60' bus category unless they start delivering in normal interval rates.

Bombardier found and fixed any faults in their railcars that came up... how long does it take for Nova Bus to fix any faults in the LFS Smart Bus?

[jajuan]

I agree.... 3 buses in a few weeks' time is hardly something to jump up about. We should be getting 5-6 in a weeks' time and the CTA should get them out in about 7-10 days from delivery on the road. I wouldn't expect Nova Bus getting any future business from CTA in either the 40' or 60' bus category unless they start delivering in normal interval rates.

Bombardier found and fixed any faults in their railcars that came up... how long does it take for Nova Bus to fix any faults in the LFS Smart Bus?

Must you always carry everything into an overreaction dude? We don't know what's going on behind the scenes for you to even make that statement regarding future business. How about we let events unfold and let more FACTS come to light before we start up yet again with any grandiose statements, especially ones that lean too far toward being unjustified disparaging ones about a legitimate business and its products or ones about what we THINK will be CTA's next procurement decision several years into the future just because a few of us think the shiny new buses aren't coming fast enough.

[garmon757]

Let's get back on track guys. #7925 finally has the Ventra reader installed. It should have the green light to begin service this week. #7908 has yet to have anything installed including the license plates.

[BusHunter]

Let's get back on track guys. #7925 finally has the Ventra reader installed. It should have the green light to begin service this week. #7908 has yet to have anything installed including the license plates.

did you ever see #7924? Something tells me that went out by accident.

[garmon757]

did you ever see #7924? Something tells me that went out by accident.

No, not yet.

[ChicagoNova]

I still remember the 4000 Series artics came in at a rate of 3 per week.

[BusMaster]

I still remember the 4000 Series artics came in at a rate of 3 per week.

I remember the very 1st 4000's series I drove it was #4002 on the #156

[sw4400]

@jajuan: Actually, I wasn't overreacting on anything here. I was merely stating the point about how we only received 3 new buses in two weeks' time. Maybe I stretched it a bit by talking about future business with Nova Bus, I'll give you that. But I remember how quickly we got the New Flyer D40LF's from 2006-2009. They came about like garmon said, 4-6/week. That should be about average delivery for standard length, regular powertrain buses like these Novas.

But this might be a reason for the slowdown in production/appearance(at least part of it) for CTA, SEPTA and anyone else waiting on Nova Buses. This recall was dated July 2, 2014 and affects the 2010-2014 Nova LFS.

[Busjack]

....

But this might be a reason for the slowdown in production/appearance(at least part of it) for CTA, SEPTA and anyone else waiting on Nova Buses. This recall was dated July 2, 2014 and affects the 2010-2014 Nova LFS.

Not entirely decisive. Maybe there were common production methods, but Nova Buses for Canada are assembled in Quebec, not Plattsburgh. NTSB database doesn't show a recall in the U.S.

[jajuan]

@jajuan: Actually, I wasn't overreacting on anything here. I was merely stating the point about how we only received 3 new buses in two weeks' time. Maybe I stretched it a bit by talking about future business with Nova Bus, I'll give you that. But I remember how quickly we got the New Flyer D40LF's from 2006-2009. They came about like garmon said, 4-6/week. That should be about average delivery for standard length, regular powertrain buses like these Novas.

But this might be a reason for the slowdown in production/appearance(at least part of it) for CTA, SEPTA and anyone else waiting on Nova Buses. This recall was dated July 2, 2014 and affects the 2010-2014 Nova LFS.

Not entirely decisive. Maybe there were common production methods, but Nova Buses for Canada are assembled in Quebec, not Plattsburgh. NTSB database doesn't show a recall in the U.S.

So as I said, we don't know what's going on behind the scenes that has the 7900s coming at a trickle compared to the 1000s. And as someone pointed out 4000s came in at 3 per week at one point also and CTA still decided to do the piggyback order off Seattle options to get the 4300s.

[Busjack]

So as I said, we don't know what's going on behind the scenes that has the 7900s coming at a trickle compared to the 1000s. And as someone pointed out 4000s came in at 3 per week at one point also and CTA still decided to do the piggyback order off Seattle options to get the 4300s.

Not sure what the connection is here, as both 4000s and 4300s were off options, to avoid having to solicit for bids.

The only thing I can conclude is that production becomes more regular once it gets going. Remember all the gnashing about Bombardier, but there haven't been any complaints about the delivery schedule the last 2 years. With all the buses New Flyer has manufactured on essentially the same low floor platform (LF LFR), they probably figured it out.

[sw4400]

Actually, there are a bunch of recalls/service bulletins under Nova Bus for the 2014 models from NHTSA. I'll post the recalls and link to it here.

Service Bulletin No.: BS-1772A
Component(s): ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING

Manufacturer: Nova Bus

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: THE HYDRAULIC LINES, IN RADIATOR COMPARTMENT, RISK CHAFING AND AFTER BEING CHECKED, NEED TO INSTALL DUAL CLAMP TIES, IF REQUIRED, AT RISK LOCATIONS. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: BS-1624A
Component(s): TIRES , VISIBILITY

Manufacturer: Nova Bus

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: THE SIDE MIRRORS ASSEMBLY, WITH NEW MODELS, NEED TO HAVE TOP GLASS REPLACE DUE TO LED TURN SIGNALS ARE INOPERATIVE. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: APS-3137B
Component(s): UNKNOWN OR OTHER

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: AT VERY LOW SPEED SOME BUSES ARE EXPERIENCING IRREGULAR MOVEMENT. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: BS-1555A
Component(s): SUSPENSION

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: THE REAR AXLE HALF SHAFTS COULD FAIL OR BREAK WHILE IN SERVICE DUE TO INADEQUATE SURFACE TREATMENT AND NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: SB-BS-3080-E
Component(s): ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: INFORMATION REGARDING MCM MODULE REPLACING THE MASTER ID AND CECM, WITH A NEW HARNESS KIT, TO REDUCE DOWNLOAD TIME. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: LI-1996-ER1
Component(s): EQUIPMENT , FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE

NOVA BUS: INFORMATION PROVIDED REGARDING NEW WARRANTY MODIFICATIONS CONDITIONS FOR FUEL TANK AND REPLACEMENT AND DISPOSAL. *PE

This more than likely constitutes why we only get three buses every few weeks.

[jajuan]

Not sure what the connection is here, as both 4000s and 4300s were off options, to avoid having to solicit for bids.

The only thing I can conclude is that production becomes more regular once it gets going. Remember all the gnashing about Bombardier, but there haven't been any complaints about the delivery schedule the last 2 years. With all the buses New Flyer has manufactured on essentially the same low floor platform (LF LFR), they probably figured it out.

Pointing out how much of a stretch his comment about whether CTA does business with Nova again actually is. Yeah 4000s and 4300s were off options, but no one held a gun to CTA's head and said you have to take these options and conduct business with New Flyer through these options.

[jajuan]

Actually, there are a bunch of recalls/service bulletins under Nova Bus for the 2014 models from NHTSA. I'll post the recalls and link to it here.

Service Bulletin No.: BS-1772A

Component(s): ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING

Manufacturer: Nova Bus

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: THE HYDRAULIC LINES, IN RADIATOR COMPARTMENT, RISK CHAFING AND AFTER BEING CHECKED, NEED TO INSTALL DUAL CLAMP TIES, IF REQUIRED, AT RISK LOCATIONS. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: BS-1624A

Component(s): TIRES , VISIBILITY

Manufacturer: Nova Bus

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: THE SIDE MIRRORS ASSEMBLY, WITH NEW MODELS, NEED TO HAVE TOP GLASS REPLACE DUE TO LED TURN SIGNALS ARE INOPERATIVE. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: APS-3137B

Component(s): UNKNOWN OR OTHER

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: AT VERY LOW SPEED SOME BUSES ARE EXPERIENCING IRREGULAR MOVEMENT. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: BS-1555A

Component(s): SUSPENSION

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: THE REAR AXLE HALF SHAFTS COULD FAIL OR BREAK WHILE IN SERVICE DUE TO INADEQUATE SURFACE TREATMENT AND NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: SB-BS-3080-E

Component(s): ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: INFORMATION REGARDING MCM MODULE REPLACING THE MASTER ID AND CECM, WITH A NEW HARNESS KIT, TO REDUCE DOWNLOAD TIME. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: LI-1996-ER1

Component(s): EQUIPMENT , FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE

NOVA BUS: INFORMATION PROVIDED REGARDING NEW WARRANTY MODIFICATIONS CONDITIONS FOR FUEL TANK AND REPLACEMENT AND DISPOSAL. *PE

This more than likely constitutes why we only get three buses every few weeks.

How many of those are from this year? That's an important question that needs to be answered before the assumption could be made that's what's holding things up. Otherwise you might be reading too much into those recalls.

[BusHunter]

Actually, there are a bunch of recalls/service bulletins under Nova Bus for the 2014 models from NHTSA. I'll post the recalls and link to it here.

Service Bulletin No.: BS-1772A

Component(s): ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING

Manufacturer: Nova Bus

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: THE HYDRAULIC LINES, IN RADIATOR COMPARTMENT, RISK CHAFING AND AFTER BEING CHECKED, NEED TO INSTALL DUAL CLAMP TIES, IF REQUIRED, AT RISK LOCATIONS. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: BS-1624A

Component(s): TIRES , VISIBILITY

Manufacturer: Nova Bus

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: THE SIDE MIRRORS ASSEMBLY, WITH NEW MODELS, NEED TO HAVE TOP GLASS REPLACE DUE TO LED TURN SIGNALS ARE INOPERATIVE. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: APS-3137B

Component(s): UNKNOWN OR OTHER

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: AT VERY LOW SPEED SOME BUSES ARE EXPERIENCING IRREGULAR MOVEMENT. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: BS-1555A

Component(s): SUSPENSION

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: THE REAR AXLE HALF SHAFTS COULD FAIL OR BREAK WHILE IN SERVICE DUE TO INADEQUATE SURFACE TREATMENT AND NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: SB-BS-3080-E

Component(s): ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

SUMMARY:

NOVABUS: INFORMATION REGARDING MCM MODULE REPLACING THE MASTER ID AND CECM, WITH A NEW HARNESS KIT, TO REDUCE DOWNLOAD TIME. *PE

Service Bulletin No.: LI-1996-ER1

Component(s): EQUIPMENT , FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE

NOVA BUS: INFORMATION PROVIDED REGARDING NEW WARRANTY MODIFICATIONS CONDITIONS FOR FUEL TANK AND REPLACEMENT AND DISPOSAL. *PE

This more than likely constitutes why we only get three buses every few weeks.

Yeah, this is even more recalls than i could find. I think that's one reason CTA is holding off on buying more artics just yet even though it is in the budget for this year. You would have to believe that Novabus is somewhat on stage here and based on their performance in delivery, bus maintenance and workability and overall happiness with the #7900's, they will then decide do they want to go with Nova or New Flyer. Personally an Xcelsior artic is appealing to me, but a Nova artic would be different also, but if they are going to always be in the shop, then that's no good. The NF #1000's are still pretty good buses and they are 8 years old. I think that speaks volumes on whether they make a good bus or not. The Nova #6400's never really had a rehab unless you want to mention the 284 powertrains they supposedly placed bids out on and I'm assuming they did receive. Now you have to ask yourself, does CTA not rehab buses or railcars they feel are not worth the money? If so then the decision has already been made.

[sw4400]

How many of those are from this year? That's an important question that needs to be answered before the assumption could be made that's what's holding things up. Otherwise you might be reading too much into those recalls.

All of these come up with this info...

Vehicle Make

NOVA BUS

Model

NOVA LFS

Model Year(s)

2014

Link appeared to not work last time, but here it is again(hopefully it'll direct you to the page)

Ok, link doesn't appear to work directly, but go to Busjack's link here and input 2014 for Model year and Nova Bus for manufacturer(It'll auto-fill Nova LFS) and you'll see all the recalls I just posted.

[jajuan]

All of these come up with this info...

Vehicle Make

NOVA BUS

Model

NOVA LFS

Model Year(s)

2014

Link appeared to not work last time, but here it is again(hopefully it'll direct you to the page)

Ok, link doesn't appear to work directly, but go to Busjack's link here and input 2014 for Model year and Nova Bus for manufacturer(It'll auto-fill Nova LFS) and you'll see all the recalls I just posted.

Ok. But apparently none of these are for here since Busjack also said the site shows no recalls for Novas within the United States. Here's his exact quote:

Not entirely decisive. Maybe there were common production methods, but Nova Buses for Canada are assembled in Quebec, not Plattsburgh. NTSB database doesn't show a recall in the U.S.

You simply ignored the distinction he was trying to point out to you. So where are you going with this?

[sw4400]

Ok. But apparently none of these are for here since Busjack also said the site shows no recalls for Novas within the United States. Here's his exact quote:

You simply ignored the distinction he was trying to point out to you. So where are you going with this?

jajuan, these recall/bulletin notices are from the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration(NHTSA), which is based out of Washington D.C.... these notices are for U.S-built Nova Buses in these model years, not the Canadian versions I alluded to in my earlier post.

If they're not for U.S-built Nova Buses, why would the NHTSA put out notices?

While not Nova-related, does this recall/service bulletin look familiar? It's on this site as well...

Report Receipt Date: APR 21, 2009

NHTSA Campaign Number: 09V133000

Component(s): STRUCTURE

Manufacturer: NORTH AMERICAN BUS INDUSTRIES, INC.

SUMMARY:

NABI IS RECALLING 579 MY 2005-2007 60BRT MODEL YEAR 2007 65BRT AND MY 2003-2004 60LFW TRANSIT BUSES. THESE BUSES MAY CONTAIN A DEFECTIVE WELDED CROSSMEMBER ASSEMBLY IN THE UNDERSTRUCTURE. THIS CROSSMEMBER IS A WELDED ASSEMBLY THAT INCLUDES A STEEL CHANNEL WELDED TO THE ARTICULATED JOINT CASTING AT THE FRONT TRAILER SECTION OF THE BUS. UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, THIS WELD MAY CRACK AND THE WELDED CROSSMEMBER ASSEMBLY MAY BEGIN TO SEPARATE. ONCE PARTIAL SEPARATION OCCURS, THE CENTER PORTION OF THE BUS IN THE AREA OF THE FRONT OF THE TRAILER MAY DROP. IF THIS CONDITION IS UNDETECTED, ADDITIONAL SEPARATION OF THE JOINT MAY OCCUR UNTIL THE FRONT SECTION OF THE TRAILER CONTACT THE ROAD SURFACE.

CONSEQUENCE:

THIS COULD RESULT IN LOSS CONTROL OF THE BUS INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH. THIS COULD ALSO RESULT IN A LOSS OF ELECTRICAL POWER AND ENGINE CONTROLS. THIS LOSS OF ELECTRICAL POWER AND ENGINE CONTROLS MAY RENDER THE VEHICLE STALLED IN A ROADWAY. ADDITIONALLY, THE FLOOR INSIDE THE VEHICLE WILL BECOME UNEVEN POSING A RISK TO PASSENGERS IN THE VEHICLE.

REMEDY:

DEALERS WILL INSPECT AND REPAIR INCLUDING INSTALLATION OF AN ADDITIONAL REINFORCEMENT TO THE AFFECT JOINT. THIS REPAIR WILL BE PERFORMED FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON APRIL 30, 2009. OWNER MAY CONTACT NABI AT 1-888-391-1777.

NOTES:

NABI RECALL NO. 20091. OWNERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV .

[jajuan]

jajuan, these recall/bulletin notices are from the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration(NHTSA), which is based out of Washington D.C.... these notices are for U.S-built Nova Buses in these model years, not the Canadian versions I alluded to in my earlier post.

If they're not for U.S-built Nova Buses, why would the NHTSA put out notices?

Ask Busjack since he pointed out the distinction. NHTSA still tabulates data because most of road vehicle companies today are multinational and have the potential to do business here if they already aren't. The recall on their site doesn't have to be by the government itself, but can be recalls done by the manufacturers themselves, meaning those could still be recalls regarding Canadian built Novas. Plus those aren't necessarily full blown recalls but reports of problems or issues with individual parts or possible defects. Either way if they came from Nova, they still had the obligation to make the information known. You just made the blatant error of assuming those reports had to be for here because it's a US government agency compiling data statistics. So again where are you going with this besides filling in the blanks on your own and besmirching the reputation of a legal business entity with unfounded conclusions drawn from data and information you haven't thoroughly examined in context but simply copied and pasted off a government website?

[Busjack]

....

Ok, link doesn't appear to work directly, but go to Busjack's link here and input 2014 for Model year and Nova Bus for manufacturer(It'll auto-fill Nova LFS) and you'll see all the recalls I just posted.

Those were service bulletins, not recalls. Consumer Reports says what the distinction is. Basically it is just guidance to the dealers. The manufacturers put out the notices, not NHTSA.

On the other hand, if you do a search for New Flyer, there is a recall for CNG buses over about 5 years. Also a service bulletin that there is a problem with the parking brake.

[Busjack]

... but no one held a gun to CTA's head and said you have to take these options and conduct business with New Flyer through these options.

True but (1) I don't see the relevance to delivery rates by either company and (2) in 2 of the 3 cases there was the hidden need to have them immediately: the 150 because they weren't saying that the NABIs were being pulled, and the 100 because they weren't saying that they needed them for Red Line South. At least they said that the 58 were for stimulus, but to get the stimulus money, the projects had to be "shovel ready."

On the other hand, this procurement process started in early 2012, and, of course, hasn't reached the 60 foot stage yet.

The only thing that could be relevant to this topic is that if they were o.k. in Seattle, they probably would be o.k. here.

[garmon757]

True but (1) I don't see the relevance to delivery rates by either company and (2) in 2 of the 3 cases there was the hidden need to have them immediately: the 150 because they weren't saying that the NABIs were being pulled, and the 100 because they weren't saying that they needed them for Red Line South. At least they said that the 58 were for stimulus, but to get the stimulus money, the projects had to be "shovel ready."

On the other hand, this procurement process started in early 2012, and, of course, hasn't reached the 60 foot stage yet.

The only thing that could be relevant to this topic is that if they were o.k. in Seattle, they probably would be o.k. here.

And the fact that Cta didn't mention anything about any problem about them. That's why I said that we have to take it a day at a time. I'm glad to see #7908 arrival but let's be grateful that we have some that's better than having none. If they weren't here then sure, that would be a problem enabling us to wonder what's going on.

[jajuan]

True but (1) I don't see the relevance to delivery rates by either company and (2) in 2 of the 3 cases there was the hidden need to have them immediately: the 150 because they weren't saying that the NABIs were being pulled, and the 100 because they weren't saying that they needed them for Red Line South. At least they said that the 58 were for stimulus, but to get the stimulus money, the projects had to be "shovel ready."

On the other hand, this procurement process started in early 2012, and, of course, hasn't reached the 60 foot stage yet.

The only thing that could be relevant to this topic is that if they were o.k. in Seattle, they probably would be o.k. here.

The last sentence was the only point I was making without all the extra analysis from either one of us. But either way sw is overreacting and blowing this up into much more than what it actually is.

[ajm522]

7924 in service on #1 with working Ventra reader.