CTA at IRM

[Busjack]

I had fun that day! Getting the opportunity to relive memories of my dad when he drove these buses out of North Ave Garage in the 1970s/80s and at Forest Glen in the 1980s/90s. I even got to do his signature bus driver "hand on the farebox" move!!! LOL! I always thought my dad looked so cool when he did that especially in the turns. Gave me goose bumps and hearing that accelerating GM V8 engine! I really miss these buses! I do have a video of my dad driving a 9200 series GM on Irving Park around 1994. I will try to post it here.

I bet he didn't have to "just watch for the streetcar" (at about 6:00).

[ibebobo]

I rode that bus in the 80's, visited it once in California, and look forward to seeing it again at the museum!

[andrethebusman]

Did IRM ever get a pair of 2400's? Thought they did, but nothing on their website.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

Did IRM ever get a pair of 2400's? Thought they did, but nothing on their website.

Yeah, IRM got 2433-2434.

[BusHunter]

Yeah, IRM got 2433-2434.

They want to keep them in a 2004 livery. Silver exterior, colored ends, thinner stripes.

[jajuan]

They want to keep them in a 2004 livery. Silver exterior, colored ends, thinner stripes.

Well I guess it's better than the state they were retired, devoid of any color whatsoever.

[Rhys Pate]

In the upcoming years, the 2600 Series will be retired when the new 7000 Series is delivered. I want to let you know that the Illinois Railway Museum should strongly consider taking 3199-3200 (the last pair in the 2600 Series), because this pair of cars are the last rail cars ever manufactured by the Budd Company/Transit America before shutting down their rail car business in 1987. 3199-3200 entered service on May 1, 1987 according to the 2600 Series service dates list. Also, another specific pair of cars that the museum should take is 3457-3458 (3458 originally numbered 3032), because this is the one and only example of when cars of different types have been mated together. The estimated time of retirement of 3457-3458 is unknown. We should let the museum know that these cars should be preserved, and perhaps the museum can charter these cars on the Snowflake Special or for other events.

[Pace831]

2 hours ago, Rhys Pate said:

Also, another specific pair of cars that the museum should take is 3457-3458 (3458 originally numbered 3032), because this is the one and only example of when cars of different types have been mated together.

Just because a piece of equipment is unusual doesn't mean it should be preserved. IRM would be better off dedicating their limited resources toward preserving "normal" cars, since the cars will be used to represent the era. 3457-58, while interesting, don't really have any historical value, but the now-ubiquitous 2600s and 3200s can show future generations what riding the CTA was like at the time. Cars 1892/1992 are an example, since they have the unique South Side Rapid Transit paint scheme but are being scrapped for parts to maintain the other 2000s at the museum.

[Rhys Pate]

What about 3199-3200? These are the last rail cars manufactured by the Budd Company, as I mentioned before.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

16 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

...Cars 1892/1992 are an example, since they have the unique South Side Rapid Transit paint scheme but are being scrapped for parts to maintain the other 2000s at the museum.

Interesting, as I thought they were the better looking ones in terms of paint wear and tear. If they remain as just a body I guess that would be OK. The first two pictures were taken in late 2014, and you can see how 1992 held up (for some reason I didn't take a picture of the entire cars).

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However in May of 2016 you can see that car 1892 has a little bit of cosmetic damage.

 

Spoiler

 

[Rhys Pate]

Sadly, 1892-1992 (originally numbered 2007-2008) are no longer in operable condition, thus, it is not possible to repair these cars. This is why they were sent to IRM, so they could be used as a parts pool for 2153-2154 (which are in operable condition) and for 2243-2244 (the 2200's use many of the same parts).

[Pace831]

28 minutes ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

Interesting, as I thought they were the better looking ones in terms of paint wear and tear. If they remain as just a body I guess that would be OK. The first two pictures were taken in late 2014, and you can see how 1992 held up (for some reason I didn't take a picture of the entire cars).

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However in May of 2016 you can see that car 1892 has a little bit of cosmetic damage.

 

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The interiors looked to have been gutted of all the seats and usable parts when I was there this summer.

[Rhys Pate]

The 2600 Series is a large series, with 600 cars (300 married pairs built), thus, I wonder if the Illinois Railway Museum will preserve more than one pair of 2600's, but, as I said before, I think the museum should take 3199-3200, because they are the last rail cars built by the Budd Company. I want to let the museum know about 3199-3200, but, how do I communicate with the museum?

[Pace831]

5 minutes ago, Rhys Pate said:

The 2600 Series is a large series, with 600 cars (300 married pairs built), thus, I wonder if the Illinois Railway Museum will preserve more than one pair of 2600's, but, as I said before, I think the museum should take 3199-3200, because they are the last rail cars built by the Budd Company. I want to let the museum know about 3199-3200, but, how do I communicate with the museum?

I'm sure IRM will get at least one set of 2600s, but not necessarily 3199-3200. Which cars they get comes down to which ones are in the best condition when it comes time to retire them.

[Busjack]

53 minutes ago, Rhys Pate said:

, I think the museum should take 3199-3200, because they are the last rail cars built by the Budd Company. I want to let the museum know about 3199-3200, but, how do I communicate with the museum?

As Pace831 said as I quoted below.

Besides you keep repeating "because they are the last rail cars built by the Budd Company," but maybe because Transit America was Bombardier, the only unique thing was they were the last built in Philadelphia. But the car company is still around, and just built 714 CTA cars.

 

Also, give current schedule, this is not the time to be retiring 3199-3200. Even if the protest works its way out in a prompt manner, the 2600s are going to be in service at least until 2024, and if it doesn't, much later. Heck, you may as well ask IRM now to pick up some  single level South Shore cars,

45 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

I'm sure IRM will get at least one set of 2600s, but not necessarily 3199-3200. Which cars they get comes down to which ones are in the best condition when it comes time to retire them.

 

 

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

On 9/25/2016 at 4:20 PM, Rhys Pate said:

...I want to let the museum know about 3199-3200, but, how do I communicate with the museum?

They probably have contact information on their website at http://www.irm.org . However I believe they will tell you the same thing @Pace831 said above.

[r-schauer]

Hey guys-

Seeing as I'm one of a small group of people who picked out IRM's 2200 and 2400s, arranged to buy them, arranged to haul them here, got them running, and keeps them running (among lots of other cars), I'll make a response.  Your recommendations are gladly received, guys.  I, and we, hear from a lot of people with a lot of ideas.  Keep them coming; it's how we know there's interest in what we're doing.

I'm quite sure that the time for 2600s at IRM is a few years in the future at this point.  We certainly do plan to preserve them, and 3200s when it's their time.  We've already made some provisions here for them, including starting to raise money through Snowflake Specials and the like, and gathering parts to make them operational.  But the decision of which cars to get really needs to be made closer to their retirement.  I'm certainly aware of 3199-3200's significance, and if they're in decent shape, it's a possibility.  It's just as possible that another pair would be preferable- right now is way too early to say!  We keep our eyes and ears open about the conditions of the various cars, don't worry. 

You know, the CTA does have its own heritage fleet, which I bet would have first dibs on what they want.  Hmmm!

You guys asked about 2007-2008 (1892-1992).  They were bought for parts and were not complete or operational when acquired.  They've already provided parts to 2153-2154 and will be providing more sorely-needed parts in the near future.  And if you think 2007-2008 look nice, have you seen 2153-2154 lately?  Restored to 1969-72 era Lake-Dan Ryan service in green and white two years ago, they're really sharp.  They are on display in Barn 7, and have paid for permanent indoor storage.

Richard Schauer

IRM Electric Car Dept. volunteer

 

[Busjack]

5 minutes ago, r-schauer said:

You guys asked about 2007-2008 (1892-1992).  They were bought for parts and were not complete or operational when acquired. 

Is there any plan to just preserve the shell? Similarly speaking, is there any plan to preserve the shell of 4001? The last I saw it it was under a tarp. I see your site has some 2009 pictures, but it still doesn't look so good.

[r-schauer]

Busjack-

4001 has been a carbody since at least the 1950s.  We have put it on standard PCC trucks to allow it to be moved around.  It is inside a "boat wrap" (the plastic shrink stuff that they cocoon boats with)  to protect it from weather, because it was built with a canvas-covered Masonite roof and it does not have windows.  It is stable as it currently sits, and is now stored inside a barn.  I suppose a logical next step would be a nice paint job, to make it a displayable car.  The paint that somebody applied in the 1970s was not the sort of paint that stuck very long.  This is why we prefer to use good paint.

2007-2008 are not planned to be preserved.  After we strip them for parts, we would be open to offers for the carbodies, if anybody is itching to have a 48-foot-long aluminum chicken coop :-)

Richard

 

[Busjack]

Thanks.

11 minutes ago, r-schauer said:

2007-2008 are not planned to be preserved.  After we strip them for parts, we would be open to offers for the carbodies, if anybody is itching to have a 48-foot-long aluminum chicken coop :-)

That reminds me of the old days (through the 1950s) when streetcars were made into diners, etc. Only thing similar recently was when they put the L car shell on a terrace of the apartment building near Logan Square and Jungle Jim buying another.

[sw4400]

16 minutes ago, r-schauer said:

Busjack-

4001 has been a carbody since at least the 1950s.  We have put it on standard PCC trucks to allow it to be moved around.  It is inside a "boat wrap" (the plastic shrink stuff that they cocoon boats with)  to protect it from weather, because it was built with a canvas-covered Masonite roof and it does not have windows.  It is stable as it currently sits, and is now stored inside a barn.  I suppose a logical next step would be a nice paint job, to make it a displayable car.  The paint that somebody applied in the 1970s was not the sort of paint that stuck very long.  This is why we prefer to use good paint.

2007-2008 are not planned to be preserved.  After we strip them for parts, we would be open to offers for the carbodies, if anybody is itching to have a 48-foot-long aluminum chicken coop :-)

Richard

 

Well, I know the bodies of 1892-1992(2007-2008) are not very good as I seen firsthand on my only trip to IRM. Odds of them being restored were too great(they would've no doubt required a lot of body work....)

What about 9799? It's not looking too good in these images from my trip, either. Those rust spots look big.....

[Busjack]

5 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

What about 9799? It's not looking too good in these images from my trip, either. Those rust spots look big.....

That seems like 5750's project. However, unlike 301, that shows why those buses have not run in service for over 20 years, and why most buses now have composite skins.

BTW, I never found the paint job on 1892-1992 very  convincing, and that, also, has been neglected for over 20 years (at least since when it was in the disconnected Green Line yard).

[r-schauer]

Hey guys-

9799's body isn't too bad.  The rust spots aren't much to worry about, especially considering they're on the front.  Buses tend to get beat up on the front end and often there's a lot of bondo there.  If pieces of the bondo come off, often the steel behind will rust quickly.  The part of 9799 that isn't so great is the underframe.  Salt has done a lot of damage.  I can see us replacing steel at some point.

I think everyone kinda misses the point about 2007-2008.  They were never acquired to be preserved.  As much as some people would like to, we can't save everything.  Look at the size of CTA's employee roster and budget.  Divide out how many people and how much money support how many cars and buses.  Now consider IRM has 480+ pieces, of which perhaps 50 run regularly and another 70 run occasionally.  We do it with much less money and way fewer people.  Adding more cars, especially bodies that can't really be used for anything, just amounts to more mouths to feed from the same size pot.  Instead, it serves everyone (IRM, our visitors, history in general) better if we focus our efforts, rather than diluting them.

I realize that there's a feeling that "these are the only other 2000s that exist, they need to be saved!"  This is why I'm serious about someone making an offer for them.  If one of you feels so strongly about it, and has the wherewithal to make it happen, get one of the bodies from us and make some use of it. 

Richard

 

[Busjack]

20 minutes ago, r-schauer said:

I think everyone kinda misses the point about 2007-2008.  They were never acquired to be preserved.  As much as some people would like to, we can't save everything.  Look at the size of CTA's employee roster and budget. 

I'm surprised that CTA didn't decide to keep using it as a statue in front of Skokie Shops. As I indicated, I didn't think it looked that good, even when newly repainted.

Personally, I think IRM should put more effort into stuff like when it restored the matchbox. It may just be me, but I don't get off on something I rode in revenue service (which may be some of my reluctance about the fleet of orange South Shore cars, although those at least now are historic). For instance, except as getting the decals back on the party 2400s CTA retained, the 2400s still aren't much different from what CTA is still running.

[andrethebusman]

The purpose of preservation is to save an example of something that is no longer around. What is wrong with saving a South Shore NS car? In a few years they will all be gone. Why not keep one around? The time will come when the last CTA 5000's will be facing the s rapper. Would you oppose saving a set because you "saw them in service"?