Bus Garage at Fisk Power Plant Site?

[Busjack]

There was a link on the home page to a Tribune story that he might want a bus garage where the Fisk power plant was at about 1100 W. Cermak, which would make some sense. Streetview; Google Map.

Somehow, Claypool became both President and Chairman, as well as Robot Skeleton Puppet.

Update: Thanks to Kevin for moving it to a new place.

[MetroShadow]

Since Rahm does run CTA, there was a link on the home page to a Tribune story that he might want a bus garage where the Fisk power plant was at about 1100 W. Cermak, which would make some sense. Streetview; Google Map.

Somehow, Claypool became both President and Chairman, as well as Robot Skeleton Puppet.

Eh, paywalls.

A depot there wouldn't be bad. A newer limits as it were.

[Busjack]

Eh, paywalls.

A depot there wouldn't be bad. A newer limits as it were.

Not really a newer limits, but a newer Archer, but a bit closer in.

I did say (when Archer got 21 and 60) "does this mean it will move to the other side of the river?" to which the answer then was no. Maybe not directly, but maybe with an 8 or so year interval.

Besides the "nearer to downtown" point (which may have steered you toward Limits), I think this would take care of 3 problems:

• Cermak through 43rd not really being near a garage.
• Halsted only having a garage at the south end (and being continually flipped among garages)
• Ashland, beside the only storage at the south end part, above, if it ever goes to artics or BRT (and I'm not counting on the latter), there would be a place to store the artics, apparently overcoming 74th's deficiencies.

[artthouwill]

and

Not really a newer limits, but a newer Archer, but a bit closer in.

I did say (when Archer got 21 and 60) "does this mean it will move to the other side of the river?" to which the answer then was no. Maybe not directly, but maybe with an 8 or so year interval.

Besides the "nearer to downtown" point (which may have steered you toward Limits), I think this would take care of 3 problems:

• Cermak through 43rd not really being near a garage.
• Halsted only having a garage at the south end (and being continually flipped among garages)
• Ashland, beside the only storage at the south end part, above, if it ever goes to artics or BRT (and I'm not counting on the latter), there would be a place to store the artics, apparently overcoming 74th's deficiencies.

Not to mention relieving stress from Kedzie garage. Routes 18,21, 60. 35, 39. and 43 along with the 8 and 9 and downtown routes like 120. 121. and 124. 128. and 130 could operate from there.

[BusHunter]

Did you guys read this story saying they want to build a CTA garage down there at the Fisk power plant site by Cermak east of Ashland? (I was having problems with it saying it needed a subscription so I just copied it over)

(Courtesy of Chicago Tribune)

CTA bus garage could be part of Fisk power plant redevelopment

A 60-acre site in the Pilsen neighborhood, once reviled for its smoke-belching power plant that contributed to premature deaths and asthma, could be redeveloped into a Chicago Transit Authority bus garage, park and nature walk. The mayor's office is set to announce an agreement Sunday between the site's owner, NRG Energy, and the CTA to explore the project, which could bring 400 jobs to the neighborhood and save CTA about $2 million annually in fuel and operational costs.

[...]

CTA officials said it was too early to say how much the bus facility would cost or what it would look like. Officials involved in the project said the garage and maintenance facility would likely use some form of clean energy, possibly solar power, and that pollution from buses would be minimal.

[...]

"We've known for a long time that ideally CTA could use a new modern bus garage, particularly centrally located," CTA President and Chairman Forrest Claypool said Friday. The CTA is in the middle of a $250 million program to rehab seven old garages. This project, according to the CTA, would be in addition to that effort. The transit agency will explore whether the site can accommodate the storage of a large number of buses, an issue at some of the CTA's older sites. [...] Buses would be cleaned and maintained at the proposed facility."

[sw4400]

"Buses would be cleaned and maintained at the proposed facility."

Doesn't really sound so much like a actual Bus Garage(e.g: North Park or Kedzie) as it does a maintenance facility like South Shops, where cleaning and heavy maintenance may be performed. It would allow for less mileage on buses at Forest Glen, North Park, Kedzie and Chicago to be transferred to/from for repairs/cleaning. So this new facility in essence could be like a North Shops or Center Shops facility and South Shops will continue to service 74th, 77th and 103rd buses.

[Busjack]

Doesn't really sound so much like a actual Bus Garage(e.g: North Park or Kedzie) as it does a maintenance facility like South Shops, where cleaning and heavy maintenance may be performed. It would allow for less mileage on buses at Forest Glen, North Park, Kedzie and Chicago to be transferred to/from for repairs/cleaning. So this new facility in essence could be like a North Shops or Center Shops facility and South Shops will continue to service 74th, 77th and 103rd buses.

It sounds just as much as a bus garage as any other. Somebody must have figured out that they need another garage. They apparently can use 900 W. Division for the reasons you said.

[Kevin]

Hi Folks,

As a reminder, please limit article repostings to selected quotes only. It keeps the Colonel happy. Paywall got you down? A Google search for the title of the article will typically let you view it (works with most news sites).

Thanks!

[sw4400]

It sounds just as much as a bus garage as any other. Somebody must have figured out that they need another garage. They apparently can use 900 W. Division for the reasons you said.

Not really. BusHunter's quote from the article said that the buses would be cleaned and maintained at the proposed facility, otherwise why not hang onto Archer? They could've just kept service vehicles and Workbuses parked in it while it was not in use during the 2010 cuts. If the CTA had intentions of using it for buses being assigned, it would've been quoted as buses would be assigned service routes at the proposed facility.

With over 1,200 buses easily, a second Heavy Maintenance Shop would take some pressure off South Shops.

[artthouwill]

From the article

"We've known for a long time that ideally CTA could use a new modern bus
garage, particularly centrally located," CTA President and Chairman
Forrest Claypool said Friday.

All buses are maintained and cleaned at their respective garages. Only heavy maintenance is performed at South Shops. Thus the article is saying that the proposed site would be for a new CTA garage.

[Busjack]

... why not hang onto Archer? They could've just kept service vehicles and Workbuses parked in it while it was not in use during the 2010 cuts. If the CTA had intentions of using it for buses being assigned, it would've been quoted as buses would be assigned service routes at the proposed facility.....

• Various CTA publications (going back to Krambles in 1992) said Archer was outmoded and needed replacement. There certainly wasn't space at Archer and Rockwell to replace it with an adequate facility there
• The pressure has been on CTA (since the Limits and North Ave. barns were taken out of commission) to realize something on selling the land. In this case, they did, for a development that is more consistent with the character of the neighborhood.
• They are now realizing that all the deadheading is costing them money. That's the only way they save a couple a million a year in operating costs by building this.
• The Fisk site only recently became available, and apparently the neighborhood prefers what is being proposed to a Walmart.
• Finally, the CTA fleet is up 100 since Archer closed, and since it is up 100 articulated buses, it needs storage space for the equivalent of 150 buses. Again, budgets and the like say that CTA needs better garage facilities to store the growing fleet of articulated buses. I noted above (moved by Kevin) that this takes care of the problem on Ashland, as apparently CTA is not doing anything to alter 74th to take care of the problem. Kedzie has been over capacity for a long time.

[BusHunter]

Hi Folks,

As a reminder, please limit article repostings to selected quotes only. It keeps the Colonel happy. Paywall got you down? A Google search for the title of the article will typically let you view it (works with most news sites).

Thanks!

I also have learned that if you try to view the article with multiple devices, one seems to work. This particular article is blocked on my Android device, but my Windows will let me see it. The articles last week Busjack mentioned could be viewed on Android but not Windows.

[BusHunter]

• Various CTA publications (going back to Krambles in 1992) said Archer was outmoded and needed replacement. There certainly wasn't space at Archer and Rockwell to replace it with an adequate facility there
• The pressure has been on CTA (since the Limits and North Ave. barns were taken out of commission) to realize something on selling the land. In this case, they did, for a development that is more consistent with the character of the neighborhood.
• They are now realizing that all the deadheading is costing them money. That's the only way they save a couple a million a year in operating costs by building this.
• The Fisk site only recently became available, and apparently the neighborhood prefers what is being proposed to a Walmart.
• Finally, the CTA fleet is up 100 since Archer closed, and since it is up 100 articulated buses, it needs storage space for the equivalent of 150 buses. Again, budgets and the like say that CTA needs better garage facilities to store the growing fleet of articulated buses. I noted above (moved by Kevin) that this takes care of the problem on Ashland, as apparently CTA is not doing anything to alter 74th to take care of the problem. Kedzie has been over capacity for a long time.

Now this would work good for Ashland BRT cause it's right there near Ashland. If they are talking artic storage that must be what they mean. They will need some way to store those buses. Existing garages will not fit those buses. Plus they could take some stress off Kedzie, but they really need something up north for a NP or FG replacement as an outdoor facility. That's greatly needed in my opinion. The buses exteriors at Fg are all cracking up due to the outdoor exposure and not washing buses in cold weather is just not acceptable. People are paying to ride a bus they can't even look out the windows because they are black.

[Busjack]

Now this would work good for Ashland BRT cause it's right there near Ashland. If they are talking artic storage that must be what they mean. They will need some way to store those buses. Existing garages will not fit those buses. Plus they could take some stress off Kedzie, but they really need something up north for a NP or FG replacement as an outdoor facility. That's greatly needed in my opinion. The buses exteriors at Fg are all cracking up due to the outdoor exposure and not washing buses in cold weather is just not acceptable. People are paying to ride a bus they can't even look out the windows because they are black.

At one time (maybe around 15 years ago) they said that 77, A, FG, and NP all needed to be replaced. Obviously, they have the land at 77, but it appears that maybe 4 mentions (including building a park and ride garage at 79th and Stewart) have gone nowhere. Land acquisitions at NP and FG indicate that there aren't current plans to move them.

Maybe in the Fisk case, there is the serendipity that a suitable site has been found, but as the article noted, a source of construction funds hasn't. My guess is that they would have to come up with about $100 million to break ground. IMO, this location makes enough sense that they will.

[Brandon93]

Not to mention relieving stress from Kedzie garage. Routes 18,21, 60. 35, 39. and 43 along with the 8 and 9 and downtown routes like 120. 121. and 124. 128. and 130 could operate from there.

I agree with the listed routes except for 43rd, 120, 121, 124, and split the 9 between the new garage and 74th I would also send the 12 and the 62 to the new garage.

[Busjack]

I agree with the listed routes except for 43rd, 120, 121, 124, and split the 9 between the new garage and 74th I would also send the 12 and the 62 to the new garage.

62 I would agree. When you get to the area of 12, that's basically saying that Kedzie doesn't have a purpose, other than as a substitute for Limits (i.e. the routes that end around Belmont).

[Brandon93]

62 I would agree. When you get to the area of 12, that's basically saying that Kedzie doesn't have a purpose, other than as a substitute for Limits (i.e. the routes that end around Belmont).

That's your opinion I'm trying to figure out what other routes out of Kedzie would go to the new garage to take some of the stress off of Kedzie. I'm not saying Kedzie doesn't have a purpose that is all. & 74th in my opinion is a little overcrowded as well.

[Busjack]

That's your opinion I'm trying to figure out what other routes out of Kedzie would go to the new garage to take some of the stress off of Kedzie. I'm not saying Kedzie doesn't have a purpose that is all. & 74th in my opinion is a little overcrowded as well.

I might have exaggerated, considering that routes such as 7, 52, 82, and 126 are staying beyond doubt. My mention of 9 takes the stress off 74th.

[Sam92]

Here's what I could see being assigned to the new garage: and don't be afraid to put in your 2 cents guys cause you all may know something I dont especially the drivers on the forum

#1 Bronzeville/Union Station

# 8 Halsted (short trips between North Branch and Root)

# 9 Ashland (Shared with 74th maybe even allowing possible introduction of short trips based off Jujuans observation of shorter trips being taken on that route. perhaps something around the UIC area?)

# 10 Museum of Science and Industry

# 18 16th/18th

# 19 United Center Express

# 21 Cermak

# 35 31st/35th

# 39 Pershing

# 50 Damen

# 60 Blue Island/26th

# 62 Archer (Kedzie would probably still handle the school runs that end at Wentworth if the new garage doesnt take over some of the downtown routes that those runs interline with)

# 94 S California

# 120/121 Union/Ogilvie Streeterville Express

# 124 Navy Pier

# 125 Water Tower Express

#130 Muesum Campus

Edit: Now if new artics get ordered after this new garage is in place this facility could possibly help take on some of the North Lake Shore Express runs taking some of the heat off NP and K who could in turn use some of those freed artics on some heavy FG routes like 56, 77, 80 and 152.

[Busjack]

Here's what I could see being assigned to the new garage: and don't be afraid to put in your 2 cents guys cause you all may know something I dont especially the drivers on the forum

...

# 94 S California

...

Probably not, since its layover is at 74th.

I would agree 1, probably, since it doesn't get anywhere close to 77th.

[Brandon93]

Probably not, since its layover is at 74th.

I would agree 1, probably, since it doesn't get anywhere close to 77th.

I know some may not agree with me I would send the 49 over there instead of the 94. The new garage can share trips with 77th and the 77th still doing the majority of the work.

[jajuan]

I agree with the listed routes except for 43rd, 120, 121, 124, and split the 9 between the new garage and 74th I would also send the 12 and the 62 to the new garage.

62 I would agree. When you get to the area of 12, that's basically saying that Kedzie doesn't have a purpose, other than as a substitute for Limits (i.e. the routes that end around Belmont).

I agree with Busjack that the 12 is fine at the Kedzie. Looking at the proposed location of the new garage should they actually first come to an agreement to get the land and then actually build it, the 12 would still be closer to Kedzie and thus is good staying where it is. And I disagree about the 49 for the same reasons as the 12. I only see that if it replaces NP in shared coverage with 74th as it's close to the same distance off Western as NP. 74th is closer to Western than both. Probably why 49A spent it's final days at 74th if I remember correctly. Now the 62, yeah I can see that. I can also better see the 8, partial coverage of the 9 (74th has to be left with some work and the 9 provides a lot of that), and many others of what Sam thought of. Looking at Sam's list I agre that the 94 would likely stay at 74th because of the layover right in the western portion of the lots at that garage after reaching 74th/Damen. I'm also not sure as much about the 10 or 19 mainly because they're so small in actual days and hours of services compared to other routes at K and C respectively, though they do make sense. Maybe shared coverage would be A couple that I'll pose that I'm a little surprised no one thought about is the possibility of sharing the 24 with 77th. I want to say the sharing of the 29 with 103rd. But 77th just seems to pop out as being the better partner with 103rd for that route whenever CTA wants that route shared.

[Brandon93]

I agree with Busjack that the 12 is fine at the Kedzie. Looking at the proposed location of the new garage should they actually first come to an agreement to get the land and then actually build it, the 12 would still be closer to Kedzie and thus is good staying where it is. And I disagree about the 49 for the same reasons as the 12. I only see that if it replaces NP in shared coverage with 74th as it's close to the same distance off Western as NP. 74th is closer to Western than both. Probably why 49A spent it's final days at 74th if I remember correctly. Now the 62, yeah I can see that. I can also better see the 8, partial coverage of the 9 (74th has to be left with some work and the 9 provides a lot of that), and many others of what Sam thought of. Looking at Sam's list I agre that the 94 would likely stay at 74th because of the layover right in the western portion of the lots at that garage after reaching 74th/Damen. I'm also not sure as much about the 10 or 19 mainly because they're so small in actual days and hours of services compared to other routes at K and C respectively, though they do make sense. Maybe shared coverage would be A couple that I'll pose that I'm a little surprised no one thought about is the possibility of sharing the 24 with 77th. I want to say the sharing of the 29 with 103rd. But 77th just seems to pop out as being the better partner with 103rd for that route whenever CTA wants that route shared.

I would say send the 29 back to 77th since the garage is closer to the relief sight if 77th gives up something to the new garage & I would say send the 71st back (with trips to 73rd and Exchange) and keep the to 112th and Torrence at 103rd.

[jajuan]

I would say send the 29 back to 77th since the garage is closer to the relief sight if 77th gives up something to the new garage & I would say send the 71st back (with trips to 73rd and Exchange) and keep the to 112th and Torrence at 103rd.

Perhaps with regard to the 29, though the 95th Dan Ryan terminal is a relief point for the route for those 103rd operators driving the route. And any total giving up of the 29 from 103rd is complicated by all the interlining between routes serving 95th/Dan Ryan terminal. I've observed the 29 in ways interlined with 95W, 112, and at one time interlined with a route or two east of the Dan Ryan. That's just how complicated interlines between those routes are. And you wouldn't get far with putting the 73rd/Exchange trips from #71 at 77th because those trips in fact are not separate and independent of the 112th/Torrance trips on that route. Each individual bus on that route actually alternates every other among those two terminus points. All buses on that route pretty much actually go to 73rd/Exchange on one swing, return to 69th/Dan Ryan, then do the full trip to 112th/Torrence, return to 69th, then again only go to 73rd/Exchange after leaving 69th/Dan Ryan during all hours the 73rd/Exchange trips and 112th/Torrence trips are simultaneously in operation.

[Sam92]

I agree with Busjack that the 12 is fine at the Kedzie. Looking at the proposed location of the new garage should they actually first come to an agreement to get the land and then actually build it, the 12 would still be closer to Kedzie and thus is good staying where it is. And I disagree about the 49 for the same reasons as the 12. I only see that if it replaces NP in shared coverage with 74th as it's close to the same distance off Western as NP. 74th is closer to Western than both. Probably why 49A spent it's final days at 74th if I remember correctly. Now the 62, yeah I can see that. I can also better see the 8, partial coverage of the 9 (74th has to be left with some work and the 9 provides a lot of that), and many others of what Sam thought of. Looking at Sam's list I agre that the 94 would likely stay at 74th because of the layover right in the western portion of the lots at that garage after reaching 74th/Damen. I'm also not sure as much about the 10 or 19 mainly because they're so small in actual days and hours of services compared to other routes at K and C respectively, though they do make sense. Maybe shared coverage would be A couple that I'll pose that I'm a little surprised no one thought about is the possibility of sharing the 24 with 77th. I want to say the sharing of the 29 with 103rd. But 77th just seems to pop out as being the better partner with 103rd for that route whenever CTA wants that route shared.

I would say send the 29 back to 77th since the garage is closer to the relief sight if 77th gives up something to the new garage & I would say send the 71st back (with trips to 73rd and Exchange) and keep the to 112th and Torrence at 103rd.

I actually thought about the 24 at first but didnt know if it would be valid because of the south end being so close to 77th garage (except for the 87th/Racine trips). maybe early runs can pull out and start in Chinatown and head to whereever the demand is need first. as far as 29 there actually used to be Navy Pier to Cermak runs that this garage fits perfectly for should CTA ever go back to running those short turns and I can see that happening since much of the 29's ridership seems concentrated in that area. Another possibilty I see is McCormick Place service such as Auto Show Shuttles, #3 King Drive runs that run between Water Tower and the McCormick Place. As far as the #12 I agree that Kedzie is the better garage for that route BUT the runs from Chicago that operate in the AM can be handled by the new garage. Im kinda curious to see what this new garage is going to be named..... Cermak Garage?