Sam92 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Probably not, since its layover is at 74th. I would agree 1, probably, since it doesn't get anywhere close to 77th. lol part of that was me thinking about the new garage being Archer's new replacement and 94 formerly being ran out of there but then again Archer was only 2 blocks away from California same way 74th is now close to 94's new terminal. lol I totally spazzed on that fact. I was thinking moving #10, #19, and even #128 there could help give them a new home without putting a dent in K, NP, C and 103rd's regular artic operations allowing them to focus on supplementing service connecting to those routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I actually thought about the 24 at first but didnt know if it would be valid because of the south end being so close to 77th garage (except for the 87th/Racine trips). maybe early runs can pull out and start in Chinatown and head to whereever the demand is need first. as far as 29 there actually used to be Navy Pier to Cermak runs that this garage fits perfectly for should CTA ever go back to running those short turns and I can see that happening since much of the 29's ridership seems concentrated in that area. Another possibilty I see is McCormick Place service such as Auto Show Shuttles, #3 King Drive runs that run between Water Tower and the McCormick Place. As far as the #12 I agree that Kedzie is the better garage for that route BUT the runs from Chicago that operate in the AM can be handled by the new garage. Im kinda curious to see what this new garage is going to be named..... Cermak Garage? On the shared runs of the 12 with Chicago, those are still interlined with trips on the 66. So that would be the roadblock to even moving those trips. Unless you untie those from the 66, they stay at Chicago the same as the regular trips on the 12 remain with Kedzie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Here's what I could see being assigned to the new garage: and don't be afraid to put in your 2 cents guys cause you all may know something I dont especially the drivers on the forum #1 Bronzeville/Union Station # 8 Halsted (short trips between North Branch and Root) # 9 Ashland (Shared with 74th maybe even allowing possible introduction of short trips based off Jujuans observation of shorter trips being taken on that route. perhaps something around the UIC area?) # 10 Museum of Science and Industry # 18 16th/18th # 19 United Center Express # 21 Cermak # 35 31st/35th # 39 Pershing # 50 Damen # 60 Blue Island/26th # 62 Archer (Kedzie would probably still handle the school runs that end at Wentworth if the new garage doesnt take over some of the downtown routes that those runs interline with) # 94 S California # 120/121 Union/Ogilvie Streeterville Express # 124 Navy Pier # 125 Water Tower Express #130 Muesum Campus Edit: Now if new artics get ordered after this new garage is in place this facility could possibly help take on some of the North Lake Shore Express runs taking some of the heat off NP and K who could in turn use some of those freed artics on some heavy FG routes like 56, 77, 80 and 152. This could end up being a heavy artic garage like a NP west side. If they took the artics from Kedzie and put them here that should free up some room. Take some of the border territory away from 74th and Kedzie like #62, #35, #39, #21, #156, #151 shortliner, and all the Kedzie downtown express'. Have Kedzie do a little more north like the #20 and maybe reassign #76 back to Chicago and possibly #77 some trips for C artics. Probably all the west Midway stuff will have to stay 74th as that looks closer to Midway. #54B?? I don't know. Probably really it just makes sense to interline the #54 and #54B's together and maybe have a short line to 24th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I know some may not agree with me I would send the 49 over there instead of the 94. The new garage can share trips with 77th and the 77th still doing the majority of the work. 49 (except for the last of the streetcar days) has not been a 77th route. It was at one time split between 69/NP, then A, and now 74/NP. But I had suggested above (and in line with Sam's comment about replacing A) that if Fisk becomes an artic. garage, and 49 becomes an artic route, assigning 49 there would make sense. I would say send the 29 back to 77th since the garage is closer to the relief sight if 77th gives up something to the new garage & I would say send the 71st back (with trips to 73rd and Exchange) and keep the to 112th and Torrence at 103rd. It was never really explained why various routes were cleared out of 77th, since the 2 barns on that site have enough capacity. Maybe jajuan has the answer as interlining, but he also later noted that those could be rearranged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 If Fisk gets built? - Name? (Cermak, Racine, Pilsen) - I agree with building a Heavy Maintence (Central Shops? Especially with FG's current state) - Take on some of FG's Novas and they get some of the rehabbed NF's - The special/downtown/Hyde Park routes (10/19/120/121/124/125/128/130/132/170/171/172/192) - North LSD routes (134/135/136/143/146/147/148/151 and maybe 156) What happens if Fisk doesn't get built? Where else would be an ideal location? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 If Fisk gets built? - Name? (Cermak, Racine, Pilsen) - I agree with building a Heavy Maintence (Central Shops? Especially with FG's current state) - Take on some of FG's Novas and they get some of the rehabbed NF's - The special/downtown/Hyde Park routes (10/19/120/121/124/125/128/130/132/170/171/172/192) - North LSD routes (134/135/136/143/146/147/148/151 and maybe 156) What happens if Fisk doesn't get built? Where else would be an ideal location? Actually I was thinking Aberdeen. Aberdeem os 1100W. You could then reuse the A for Aberdeen that was once used for Archer ()garage code A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 If Fisk gets built? .... - I agree with building a Heavy Maintence (Central Shops? Especially with FG's current state) - Take on some of FG's Novas and they get some of the rehabbed NF's ... What happens if Fisk doesn't get built? Where else would be an ideal location? It was already explained that the only place CTA needs heavy maintenance is at South Shops. In fact, with contracting out, there is less need for a heavy maintenance facility. It also appears that CTA can't do with current buses what it used to do--fix major accident damage. All your FG stuff is too short term to be relevant to this. Mayor Emanuel and his stooge didn't announce a groundbreaking. Rest assured, if there were a groundbreaking ceremony, his press contingent would be there to tout the leadership of Mayor Emanuel for the upcoming election. If Fisk doesn't get built, CTA will continue with what it has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Actually I was thinking Aberdeen. Aberdeem os 1100W. You could then reuse the A for Aberdeen that was once used for Archer ()garage code A. I say 2. 74 didn't become W for Wood, and in fact stayed 6. Not that it makes any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I say 2. 74 didn't become W for Wood, and in fact stayed 6. Not that it makes any difference. W, and for that matter 2, never existed. 5 for 52nd was reused for Chicago Ave. and A is stil in the CTA's system. so it seems the logical choice/ CTA kept 6 because 77th already had 7. There was a short period when 77th had two 7 stickers and the 74th buses had one 7 sticker and 1 4 sticker, but that was very short lived, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 W, and for that matter 2, never existed. 5 for 52nd was reused for Chicago Ave. and A is stil in the CTA's system. so it seems the logical choice/ CTA kept 6 because 77th already had 7. There was a short period when 77th had two 7 stickers and the 74th buses had one 7 sticker and 1 4 sticker, but that was very short lived, Since CTA is no longer using sign rolls in the run box, there is no need to reuse garage codes. In fact, the article said that the site was closer to May, so maybe M. CTA should get rid of 5 for Chicago and use C (except in the future being foreseen by this topic, it would conflict with Cermak). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon93 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 W, and for that matter 2, never existed. 5 for 52nd was reused for Chicago Ave. and A is stil in the CTA's system. so it seems the logical choice/ CTA kept 6 because 77th already had 7. There was a short period when 77th had two 7 stickers and the 74th buses had one 7 sticker and 1 4 sticker, but that was very short lived, Since CTA is no longer using sign rolls in the run box, there is no need to reuse garage codes. In fact, the article said that the site was closer to May, so maybe M. CTA should get rid of 5 for Chicago and use C (except in the future being foreseen by this topic, it would conflict with Cermak). I say 2 can be used for the new garage if it's named Cermak due to the fact that Cermak is 2200 South and I agree Chicago should get rid of 5 and use C as their code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.cta85 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 You know it's funny cause I was just thinking about the same thing just recently. I never understood why the garage code for Chicago is 5 instead of C, I mean Forest Glen NP and Kedzie all have letters lol. I agree the new garage should have a 2 for its garage code and give Chicago a C for theirs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Looking at Fisk yesterday, I would say maybe call it the Halsted garage because it's not far from there or they could just call it Cermak. If they called it Aberdeen or May, there's a possibility that it's too ambigious and everyone wouldn't know where that is. They could also name it for the area like FG or NP. Whether it gets built to me depends on whether Ashland BRT does start or not because that is when they officially run out of space because they will have to come up with space for 50-60 more artics. When construction begins on BRT we might hear they also did a groundbreaking on this because the two to me are related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 You know it's funny cause I was just thinking about the same thing just recently. I never understood why the garage code for Chicago is 5 instead of C, I mean Forest Glen NP and Kedzie all have letters lol. I agree the new garage should have a 2 for its garage code and give Chicago a C for theirs. The explanation, mulled before, was that early roll signs in the run box didn't have a C. North and Cicero had a code of N, but I thought at the time it would have made more sense to give it C so that NP wouldn't be stuck with P. Then, obviously, C would have been available for Chicago. If you want to discuss another inconsistency, 103rd has 1 in the run numbers but at least used to have 03 on the sticker. Still that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 The "N" was of course North Ave and continued when North ave closed and Lawndale Garage was reopened! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.cta85 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 The explanation, mulled before, was that early roll signs in the run box didn't have a C. North and Cicero had a code of N, but I thought at the time it would have made more sense to give it C so that NP wouldn't be stuck with P. Then, obviously, C would have been available for Chicago. If you want to discuss another inconsistency, 103rd has 1 in the run numbers but at least used to have 03 on the sticker. Still that way? Yea it is with the 03 which also makes me think that maybe 74th, instead of having a 6 should have a 4. Better yet they should just have a 74 in their windows, I only said that cause in some buses at 77th they have two 7's in the windows instead of the one 7 they normally have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Since CTA is no longer using sign rolls in the run box, there is no need to reuse garage codes. In fact, the article said that the site was closer to May, so maybe M. CTA should get rid of 5 for Chicago and use C (except in the future being foreseen by this topic, it would conflict with Cermak). I say 2 can be used for the new garage if it's named Cermak due to the fact that Cermak is 2200 South and I agree Chicago should get rid of 5 and use C as their code. The explanation, mulled before, was that early roll signs in the run box didn't have a C. North and Cicero had a code of N, but I thought at the time it would have made more sense to give it C so that NP wouldn't be stuck with P. Then, obviously, C would have been available for Chicago. If you want to discuss another inconsistency, 103rd has 1 in the run numbers but at least used to have 03 on the sticker. Still that way? Busjack's last post also gets to the other inconsistency that came to mind with Chicago in that they use 5 in the run box from the run boxes having been manual and not electronic at the time, but the garage stickers on the buses are all C. And yes garage stickers at 103rd are still 03. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Looking at Fisk yesterday, I would say maybe call it the Halsted garage because it's not far from there or they could just call it Cermak. If they called it Aberdeen or May, there's a possibility that it's too ambigious and everyone wouldn't know where that is. They could also name it for the area like FG or NP. Whether it gets built to me depends on whether Ashland BRT does start or not because that is when they officially run out of space because they will have to come up with space for 50-60 more artics. When construction begins on BRT we might hear they also did a groundbreaking on this because the two to me are related. Looking at the rate at which Ashland BRT is coming along, that would mean our chances of seeing that garage get built would be close to zero. I agree with Busjack that the BRT project is not getting off the ground anywhere in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 .... Whether it gets built to me depends on whether Ashland BRT does start or not because that is when they officially run out of space because they will have to come up with space for 50-60 more artics. When construction begins on BRT we might hear they also did a groundbreaking on this because the two to me are related. Looking at the rate at which Ashland BRT is coming along, that would mean our chances of seeing that garage get built would be close to zero. I agree with Busjack that the BRT project is not getting off the ground anywhere in the near future. While I did discount the BRT, I did say above that the garage would be justified if Ashland or Western went artic. Anyway, the deadheading and overcapacity at K seem to justify this garage in any event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Looking at the rate at which Ashland BRT is coming along, that would mean our chances of seeing that garage get built would be close to zero. I agree with Busjack that the BRT project is not getting off the ground anywhere in the near future. It's not going to be built tomorrow but the garage seems to have the cities approval. But it would need an environmental contractor to clean up the site and then a building contractor so it's at least 3-5 years off. BRT strangely enough is about the same distance away. First they have to work on this loop brt, hopefully this year but couldn't they get a grant or something from the feds to help pay for Ashland BRT. They can rebuild transit stations at $200 mill a pop I don't see a financial concern so anythings possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 ... BRT strangely enough is about the same distance away. First they have to work on this loop brt, hopefully this year but couldn't they get a grant or something from the feds to help pay for Ashland BRT. They can rebuild transit stations at $200 mill a pop I don't see a financial concern so anythings possible. The thing that makes this impossible is that the record of the preliminary hearings, including a rebuttal provided by a retired transportation engineer, indicates that there is no way this gets through the environmental impact process in the proposed form, and hence won't get federal funding, even though the definition of BRT in section 5309 has been amended. Emanuel recognized as much when he said that this was not the plan, and put it on the back burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 While I did discount the BRT, I did say above that the garage would be justified if Ashland or Western went artic. Anyway, the deadheading and overcapacity at K seem to justify this garage in any event. No my point is we don't want CTA to tie it too much to the BRT project because it would never get built. Letting it stand on its own separate from BRT as they seem to be doing is the way to go and makes it more likely that we will see it built which I would agree it's a better chance seeing this get done than BRT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 The thing that makes this impossible is that the record of the preliminary hearings, including a rebuttal provided by a retired transportation engineer, indicates that there is no way this gets through the environmental impact process in the proposed form, and hence won't get federal funding, even though the definition of BRT in section 5309 has been amended. Emanuel recognized as much when he said that this was not the plan, and put it on the back burner. I think somehow as I mentioned before that they underestimated how much opposition they would bump up against, especially from the businesses, after announcing that they were going with the option that knocks out most of the left turns on Ashland from Irving Park all the way down to 95th Street. They thought they would get to announce the project in that form and just steamroll over everybody and ram it down everyone's throat no questions asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcmetro Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 The last I heard, the plans were being modified to at least provide some left turns on Ashland. In any case, the construction (or not-construction) of Ashland BRT shouldn't preclude the Fisk Garage. After all, the BRT project will require a small percentage of the fleet. I'm not sure about CTA's garage facilities and whether there is need for new ones or more capacity. CTA doesn't seem to be doing any bus service expansions soon, besides the proposed Ashland line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dann Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 The last I heard, the plans were being modified to at least provide some left turns on Ashland. In any case, the construction (or not-construction) of Ashland BRT shouldn't preclude the Fisk Garage. After all, the BRT project will require a small percentage of the fleet. I'm not sure about CTA's garage facilities and whether there is need for new ones or more capacity. CTA doesn't seem to be doing any bus service expansions soon, besides the proposed Ashland line. It's not a matter of bus service expansions that justify this proposed garage; it's both the overcapacity situation at Kedzie with buses parked on the street overnight, and the amount of deadheading particularly from downtown. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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