Pace/CTA North Shore Coordination Plan

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Tcmetro said:

422 - Shortened to operate between Linden CTA and Glen of North Glenview Metra. Limited service added to replace 421. Service north of Glen of North Glenview provided by new "Route A"

423 - Eliminated. Replaced by new "Route A" and "Route B".

Route A - Follows route 423 from Linden CTA to Glen of North Glenview, then Route 422 to Northbrook Court.

Route B - Operates between Harlem CTA and Glenview via Harlem, Dempster, and Waukegan. Replaces 423 and part of 210.

Thanks.

This was part in which I was interested. Essentially, Route A is the route 423 that was originally proposed circa 2004; that proposal was to take the original 423 to Kraft and then tack on 212 to Northbrook Court. The objection then was that it cut Northbrook off from Old Orchard, unless a transfer point were provided on Willow Road around Kohls. Maybe any demand is met by a transfer point at Glen Metra. At least there is a bus loading area and a shelter there.

Route B is essentially the old 228, except on Waukegan rather than Harlem north of Dempster. The businesses are on Waukegan, not Harlem. 

The main concern in about 2004 was to serve the Glen Town Center (Patriot between West Lake and Chestnut). Any recollection of the route around there? *

About the other things I saw:

• They did get my point that it was going to spill over the declared stdy area--again.
• The 215/226 change is essentially the 2003 "BRT Plan" with 226 extended to Howard Red Line, because the BRT on the Skokie Valley ROW was supposed to go to Jeff Pk. Now it is Route C.
• I'm still trying to figure out 213. I sort of get that the demand is on Skokie Blvd. rather than in Glencoe. Does it first go to Northbrook Court and then to Highland Park?
• Most of the rest (especially 205, 210, 421) are cutbacks (as predicted by many here, and should not have taken 1-1/2 years to plan).

__________

*Some here said that 423 should be split  into Harlem and Willow at Patriot. Essentially, they got that.

[Tcmetro]

Yes, from what the open house staffer told me, the 213 will loop Northbrook Court before continuing to Highland Park.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Tcmetro said:

Yes, from what the open house staffer told me, the 213 will loop Northbrook Court before continuing to Highland Park.

I figured it would be something like 471 C trips. Thanks.

Also, while I figured that my input had as much value as possible, I see that they did take my suggestion to can 205,just not in the manner I thought.

I also hadn't conceived of Glen Metra (to use the Pace term) as a transit hub, but given that, I would have:

• Canned 423 north of it, and have a Northbrook C&R with a transfer point there, and major stops at Northbrook Court and Northbrook Metra.
• In line with them canning 210, have a Glenview C&R with a transfer point there, and connect The Glen Town Center and Glenbrook Hospital with Pulse  at Golf Mill (in line with my suggestion to can 270). While canceling 210 is old news, back 12 years ago, the Pace consultants still found a need for a bus between Glenbrook Hospital and Glenview Metra, but like a similar Aon Shuttle Bug, it doesn't look like it any more.

[Busjack]

15 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

Route C - Operates between Jefferson Park CTA and Skokie Courthouse via Foster, Edens Expwy, Touhy, Skokie, Old Orchard. Replaces 54A.

One thing I just caught. The Edens BOS just got another route (for about 3 miles). Probably becomes route 621.

[Tcmetro]

If anything it seems like the 205 is going to benefit from the better service provided by the 208 and 213. I would imagine that there is some pretty good turnover at the Davis Purple line as it is.

I was a little surprised at the elimination of the Glenbrook Hospital service. Perhaps the new "Route B" could be extended.

[Busjack]

10 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

I was a little surprised at the elimination of the Glenbrook Hospital service. Perhaps the new "Route B" could be extended.

Theoretically, if north of Denpster is a substitute for 210. But Pace knows what the boarding statistics are, and there was the issue of losing the layover point a couple of years ago.

[Busjack]

12 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

 

If anything it seems like the 205 is going to benefit from the better service provided by the 208 and 213.

 

Which basically means that the title of this project was a misnomer, for the most part. All CTA did was give up 54A and 205 (which it should have done) and cut frequency on 206 (for which it didn't need a study). CTA and Pace will still be running on Howard.

Most was a usual Pace restructuring to account for declining ridership, some in the "study area" and much into the "spillover." Pace should at least be honest that North Shore is everything east of I-294 and up to Highland Park. I suppose they will now have to hold public hearings in the vicinity of Glenview and Glencoe.

[Busjack]

The meeting display boards are posted here.

A couple of things not noted above:

• 213 stays on Green Bay Road in Glencoe to Lake Cook Road. It does not serve Slokie Blvd. in Northbrook, but apparently takes Skokie Valley Road and I assume Clavey Road to get back to Highland Park (just indicates "To Highland Park"),
• Route B ends in Downtown Glenview, not much different than old 228.
• Route 422 is not on Waukegan Road in Glenview, but goes Lehigh-Chestnut-Patriot (serving the Glen Town Center)-Lehigh (623 routing) to the Glen Metra station. Also 422 north of Downtown Glenview is reduced frequency (I assume compared to current 423),

The thing I am assuming is that this ends routes split between garages. 422 and Route A look clearly NS and Route B NW. 210, of course, is dead.

[BusHunter]

On 9/19/2017 at 10:18 PM, Busjack said:

Thanks.

This was part in which I was interested. Essentially, Route A is the route 423 that was originally proposed circa 2004; that proposal was to take the original 423 to Kraft and then tack on 212 to Northbrook Court. The objection then was that it cut Northbrook off from Old Orchard, unless a transfer point were provided on Willow Road around Kohls. Maybe any demand is met by a transfer point at Glen Metra. At least there is a bus loading area and a shelter there.

Route B is essentially the old 228, except on Waukegan rather than Harlem north of Dempster. The businesses are on Waukegan, not Harlem. 

The main concern in about 2004 was to serve the Glen Town Center (Patriot between West Lake and Chestnut). Any recollection of the route around there? *

About the other things I saw:

• They did get my point that it was going to spill over the declared stdy area--again.
• The 215/226 change is essentially the 2003 "BRT Plan" with 226 extended to Howard Red Line, because the BRT on the Skokie Valley ROW was supposed to go to Jeff Pk. Now it is Route C.
• I'm still trying to figure out 213. I sort of get that the demand is on Skokie Blvd. rather than in Glencoe. Does it first go to Northbrook Court and then to Highland Park?
• Most of the rest (especially 205, 210, 421) are cutbacks (as predicted by many here, and should not have taken 1-1/2 years to plan).

__________

*Some here said that 423 should be split  into Harlem and Willow at Patriot. Essentially, they got that.

I've ridden the #423 a few times Linden to Harlem blue line. It gets it's least traffic up around the glen shopping center, but it does get traffic up there. Most of it's traffic though in the rush was from Kraft which could basically filled a seated load in one stop. Since Kraft has left, I saw something else on the Willow/Waukegan road sign as I was driving past the other day. I thought the ridership was decent, better than #319 anyway. Back in the day the #228 in glenview was strong because of it's connections to other lines. I guess they figure that it's time for it to come back. You also have a Metra/Amtrak connection there, so it's like a mini Jeff Pk. (and I do mean mini) I don't know about this route C, any comments from the CTA they want to can #54A? Now if the service is all day long on route C maybe they have something.

Looking back on the proposals, I think the #215 and route C are redundant, but most of the changes make sense. I think these changes will be successful. Any idea why Pulse #250 is proposed. It's not happening for two more years at least?

[Busjack]

11 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I've ridden the #423 a few times Linden to Harlem blue line. It gets it's least traffic up around the glen shopping center, but it does get traffic up there.

The issue there is that they are splitting 423, so it (Route A) basically stays north of Willow Road. The impression I got from the handout is that anyone in The Glen would have to take 422 and transfer to either Route A at Glen Metra or Route B in downtown Glenview.

11 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Since Kraft has left, I saw something else on the Willow/Waukegan road sign as I was driving past the other day.

Medline.

11 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I don't know about this route C, any comments from the CTA they want to can #54A?

CTA was in on the study, and the Proposed Map for Skokie shows no service on Cicero Ave./Skokie Blvd. between Touhy and Peterson  and no service on Cicero between Foster and Montrose (black dotted line), so like 205, 54A appears toast.

[BusHunter]

#226 actually is redundant with the #97. I think they would have done just as well just running the #226 to Oakton/Skokie Yellow line. sounds like you have too much going to Howard. #213, #226, #290, #97 and maybe too much going to jeff pk. But I guess we have to take into account the #215 and #226 are being rerouted. Seems like they might be a bay short at jeff pk. Pulse #270 is going to have it's own bay? Even without it you have this route C and #215 replacing the #226 bay. Maybe they are sharing, but still both Pulse #270 and #270 local will have to share bays and that seems a bit over congested.

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

226 actually is redundant with the #97. 

It looks that way, except beween Dodge and Crawford (which also encompasses the Target-Jewel shopping center). My guess is that with regard to 97 and 201, Pace didn't have the resources to take them over. Only place where it looks like Pace has to add resources is Route C, and probably gets a few back from terminating 210 and 421.

[ethan2226]

Will the North Shore Coordination Plan move the 206 from Forest Glen to North Park?

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, ethan2226 said:

Will the North Shore Coordination Plan move the 206 from Forest Glen to North Park?

Since the only result is to cut back FG routes (205, 206) I don't see why.

[renardo870]

The 206 Route service hours have been reduced to later AM start time (20 to 30 min)and earlier AM end time 45-60 min earlier)...while PM end time is about 90 min earlier Effective 12/18/17

[Busjack]

39 minutes ago, renardo870 said:

The 206 Route service hours have been reduced to later AM start time (20 to 30 min)and earlier AM end time 45-60 min earlier)...while PM end time is about 90 min earlier Effective 12/18/17

More exact times in the Alert.

The first northbound weekday AM trip will leave Howard station later, at 7:05am instead of 6:45am. 

The last northbound weekday AM trip will leave Howard station earlier, at 8:20am instead of 8:50am. 

The first southbound weekday AM trip will leave Central/Crawford later, at 7:15am instead of 6:30am. 

The last southbound weekday AM trip will leave Central/Crawford earlier, at 8am instead of 8:25am.

The last northbound weekday PM trip will leave Howard station earlier, at 5:20pm instead of 6:35pm. 

The last southbound weekday PM trip will leave Central/Crawford earlier, at 5:05pm instead of 6:20pm.

Again, I'm assuming this tailors this more to school hours, as I don't think anyone is getting up for school at 6:30 a.m. or leaving school at approx. 6:45 p.m. I guess they don't have as many commuters going to and from work as they thought.

[MetroShadow]

Did you guys catch the newer presentation slide deck?

Essentially details service hours and span. 

[Busjack]

16 hours ago, MetroShadow said:

Did you guys catch the newer presentation slide deck?

...

No.

What hit me was:

• Entire 422 and 423 set up not shown until page 35. Prior pages can't be taken in isolation.
• Route A works on current Northbrook Ct. frequency of 60 minutes, but I assume UPS trips have to be retained (i.e. 10:00 p.m. from Northbrook Ct/)
• Still doesn't show 213 routing in Highland Park (except for page 45, which implies up U.S. 41, i.e. no local Highland Park service on Green Bay Road).
• It looks like 423 goes from Harlem to Waikegan Rd. between Dempster and Glenview (due to cancellation of 210) before it becomes Route B. .
• Phasing, especially for 421/422/423, really strung out (2019-2020).

[jajuan]

On 12/23/2017 at 5:19 PM, MetroShadow said:

Did you guys catch the newer presentation slide deck?

Essentially details service hours and span. 

Thanks for the link.

On 12/24/2017 at 8:56 AM, Busjack said:

No.

What hit me was:

• Entire 422 and 423 set up not shown until page 35. Prior pages can't be taken in isolation.
• Route A works on current Northbrook Ct. frequency of 60 minutes, but I assume UPS trips have to be retained (i.e. 10:00 p.m. from Northbrook Ct/)
• Still doesn't show 213 routing in Highland Park (except for page 45, which implies up U.S. 41, i.e. no local Highland Park service on Green Bay Road).
• It looks like 423 goes from Harlem to Waikegan Rd. between Dempster and Glenview (due to cancellation of 210) before it becomes Route B. .
• Phasing, especially for 421/422/423, really strung out (2019-2020).

One of the other things to note on the CTA side is that CTA has indeed already started implementing some of the proposed changes for their side when it comes to 49B, 93, 155, 201 and 206. 49B saw its change back at summer pick of this year. 93 and 155 saw their changes at fall pick. 201 is slated as Winter 2017-18, and 206's schedule change of last week is confirmed as being part of this coordination plan. 

[jajuan]

21 hours ago, Busjack said:

In reverse order:

The essential political problem is that The Machine runs Chicago politics. As has been discussed many times before here, even though the CTA is an independent municipal corporation, Daley II and Emanuel think it is their personal property. This was exemplified by such things as Kruesi proposing the 7 days a week Sunday schedule, which would have eliminated service in the close-in suburbs (after Frank overextended into them), and both he and Claypool distorting the ridership stats, implying that CTA was entitled to 81% of the RTA tax receipts from the 6 county area, not clearly stating that that was based on unlinked trips, not passenger miles.

The one thing Claypool was correct about in the Crowd Reduction Plan was to recognize that CTA was overextended, but he was not transparent about that, not only lying about 11 Lincoln, but not admitting that CTA had coordinated with Pace (Pace later disclosed that). Of course, Claypool's disdain for the public finally caught up with him at the Board of Ed. (Are you aware of that episode?)

So basically, since the mayors have acted like CTA is their personal property, and sububanites don't have a vote in that election, why should they let Kruesi and Claypool screw them over?

While I advocated that the service boards be abolished, I backed off for 2 reasons 1) Carter is more receptive to public input and transparent, and 2) through such things as the North Shore and South Halsted Coordination Projects, CTA is willing to coordinate.

As far as what you wish would have happened in the 1950s, that's currently irrelevant. I suppose you don't have the answer to the bond indenture conditions CTA could not meet, but unlike what most public employees think, money is not an unlimited commodity, and unlike the 2 individuals I mentioned above said, it isn't up to the suburbs to bail out the city's financial distress. The RTA got Carter to acknowledge that last month.

  

This seemed like a more appropriate spot to respond to this. I too am pleased to see CTA and Pace once again showing more willingness to coordinate with each other in areas that their services intersect. It really does improve things for the customer when they actually do real coordination. Plus it does cut down on sometimes silly arguments of who should be where between city and nearby burbs while where relevant preserving one ride bus options between city and nearby suburban locations, since it is annoying from the customer point of view to start a trip in the city and have to transfer to a different route on a short remaining leg into the a near burb or vice versa for surburban rider doing the opposite. 

[MRChiCity]

FYI http://evanstonnow.com/story/government/bill-smith/2018-03-27/79510/bus-route-changes-proposed

[artthouwill]

22 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

FYI http://evanstonnow.com/story/government/bill-smith/2018-03-27/79510/bus-route-changes-proposed

With the possible exception of the  93 and 97, will CTA ultimately  pull all of its Evanston bus service?

[jesi2282]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

With the possible exception of the  93 and 97, will CTA ultimately  pull all of its Evanston bus service?

201 and 206 will be the last ones standing. The 206 already had its hours cut, and is now aimed more at serving ETHS students than rush hour commuters.

[NewFlyerMCI]

On 3/31/2018 at 2:34 PM, MRChiCity said:

FYI http://evanstonnow.com/story/government/bill-smith/2018-03-27/79510/bus-route-changes-proposed

Jeez, the 213 already has terrible headways and is almost never on time, this'll only make it worse. Only possible benefit is that people going to CBG by bus won't have to go to Davis anymore

[Busjack]

2 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Jeez, the 213 already has terrible headways and is almost never on time, this'll only make it worse. Only possible benefit is that people going to CBG by bus won't have to go to Davis anymore

Not sure what CBG is, but to Winnetka is the same frequency. North of Winnetka isn't, but the combo to Northbrook Court and then downtown Highland Park is.

If people between Winnetka and Highland Park on Green Bay Road need to get to Downtown Chicago, Metra runs parallel.