5000-series - Updates

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, Juniorz said:

The only High Performance series to not making past 30 years mark was the 2000s which recevied no farewell

 

1 hour ago, NovaBusFan said:

I think they were retired because of them breaking down a lot.

They were retired,  in part, because the Green Line was shut down for two years for a rebuild.   The 2000s were assigned to the Green Line when  the south ends of the NSM and the West South (Lake Dan Ryan) were swapped.   Due to the Green Line shutdown, the 2000s were no longer needed.

[NovaBusFan]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

 

They were retired,  in part, because the Green Line was shut down for two years for a rebuild.   The 2000s were assigned to the Green Line when  the south ends of the NSM and the West South (Lake Dan Ryan) were swapped.   Due to the Green Line shutdown, the 2000s were no longer needed.

Oh ok 

[Mr.cta85]

12 hours ago, artthouwill said:

 

They were retired,  in part, because the Green Line was shut down for two years for a rebuild.   The 2000s were assigned to the Green Line when  the south ends of the NSM and the West South (Lake Dan Ryan) were swapped.   Due to the Green Line shutdown, the 2000s were no longer needed.

I remember as a kid I hated how the 2200’s went out. I get the Greenline was down 2yrs but couldn’t they just put those cars on another line like the Purple or Brown perhaps. And the fact they never got a rehab makes me mad to this day lol. They shoulda retired at least early 2000’s. I just hope the 3200 will be around past the 40yr mark of their lives cause they’re still good cars. 

[NovaBusFan]

1 hour ago, Mr.cta85 said:

I remember as a kid I hated how the 2200’s went out. I get the Greenline was down 2yrs but couldn’t they just put those cars on another line like the Purple or Brown perhaps. And the fact they never got a rehab makes me mad to this day lol. They shoulda retired at least early 2000’s. I just hope the 3200 will be around past the 40yr mark of their lives cause they’re still good cars. 

Same here, rehabbing something then retiring them in a few years is just a waste of money. Keep the #3200s until the 2030s they are still doing well after the rehabs, screw the next order of #7000s.

[BusHunter]

21 hours ago, Juniorz said:

The only High Performance series to not making past 30 years mark was the 2000s which recevied no farewell

If you want to call cars #1- #4 high performance, they ran even less and had the higher performing motors. They were the creme de la creme of the #6000/5-50's. Sad as a rail fan to see that end so early, plus theres no museum representation which makes it even more bittersweet. 

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, Mr.cta85 said:

I remember as a kid I hated how the 2200’s went out. I get the Greenline was down 2yrs but couldn’t they just put those cars on another line like the Purple or Brown perhaps. And the fact they never got a rehab makes me mad to this day lol. They shoulda retired at least early 2000’s. I just hope the 3200 will be around past the 40yr mark of their lives cause they’re still good cars. 

As a kid, I remember the Lake -Dan Ryan being exclusively 2000s and 2200s.  Then during the infamous Blizzards of 1979, the undercarriage of the 2000s sustained damage from road salt that splashed unto the tracks in the median of the Dan Ryan expressway.   The CTA made the decision to move all of the 2000s to the Englewood-Jacjsob Park-Howard Line and the 2400s were all assigned to the Lake-Dan Ryan.   As the 2600s started being delivered, the Lake-Dan Ryan received the first batch of those while sending its 2200s to the Congress-Douglas Milwaukee Line.

When the 2600s started being delivered to the NSM, they were compatible with the 2000s so they often were coupled together.  The 6000s were slowly getting phased out, eventually being relegated in rush only service.

When the current Green and Red Lines came into service, the 2000s were shifted to the Green Line for less wear and tear.  And due to the ADA law being enacted in 1991, all trains needed to be accessible,  so each train needed a 2400 or 2600 series car in the consist, so 2000s and 2600s were paired yogether.  When the Green Line was shot down, the 2000s were considered excess and removed from service.   Rene the new Green Line had less frequency than both the former Lake Dan Ryan and the Englewood Jackson Park Howard services.

When the 2000s moved to the North South Main, they received a new paint job., sporting the Spirit of Chicago livery to match the new 2600s.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

On 8/29/2021 at 8:28 AM, NovaBusFan said:

Same here, rehabbing something then retiring them in a few years is just a waste of money. Keep the #3200s until the 2030s they are still doing well after the rehabs, screw the next order of #7000s.

Ye true the 3200 series still work better keep them don't waste money on new railcars until the 3200s start having bigger issues like some 2600s are having now but idk which since their rehab was nearly 20 years ago

[BusHunter]

On 8/29/2021 at 1:12 PM, artthouwill said:

As a kid, I remember the Lake -Dan Ryan being exclusively 2000s and 2200s.  Then during the infamous Blizzards of 1979, the undercarriage of the 2000s sustained damage from road salt that splashed unto the tracks in the median of the Dan Ryan expressway.   The CTA made the decision to move all of the 2000s to the Englewood-Jacjsob Park-Howard Line and the 2400s were all assigned to the Lake-Dan Ryan.   As the 2600s started being delivered, the Lake-Dan Ryan received the first batch of those while sending its 2200s to the Congress-Douglas Milwaukee Line.

When the 2600s started being delivered to the NSM, they were compatible with the 2000s so they often were coupled together.  The 6000s were slowly getting phased out, eventually being relegated in rush only service.

When the current Green and Red Lines came into service, the 2000s were shifted to the Green Line for less wear and tear.  And due to the ADA law being enacted in 1991, all trains needed to be accessible,  so each train needed a 2400 or 2600 series car in the consist, so 2000s and 2600s were paired yogether.  When the Green Line was shot down, the 2000s were considered excess and removed from service.   Rene the new Green Line had less frequency than both the former Lake Dan Ryan and the Englewood Jackson Park Howard services.

When the 2000s moved to the North South Main, they received a new paint job., sporting the Spirit of Chicago livery to match the new 2600s.

Interesting history. It's Ironic, both the #2000s and #2l400s were once assigned to the west northwest to both be moved to the dan ryan. 

Another thing if the #2000s had salt issues way back when why did they order the #2600s to fail the same way. Even the #3200s I believe had this problem. It wasnt until the Alstom #2600 rehab that they finally had trains that were salt proof. If you watch my youtube video  cta in crisis '99 they talk about the train shortage they experienced because of this. Why did it take them 20 to 25 years to figure that out?

[Sam92]

21 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Interesting history. It's Ironic, both the #2000s and #2l400s were once assigned to the west northwest to both be moved to the dan ryan. 

Another thing if the #2000s had salt issues way back when why did they order the #2600s to fail the same way. Even the #3200s I believe had this problem. It wasnt until the Alstom #2600 rehab that they finally had trains that were salt proof. If you watch my youtube video  cta in crisis '99 they talk about the train shortage they experienced because of this. Why did it take them 20 to 25 years to figure that out?

Sounds like the same with the Dan Ryan. They started with concrete ties that were replaced with wood only a few years after the line opened. Yet they spent all that time doing only surface work until the 2013 shutdown where they tore everything from the ground up. Imagine the time and money that could’ve been saved if they did what was supposed to be done when it first started. Cta always tackles things short sightedly now watch they’re going to add service to the red and brown lines without properly addressing the imbalances till it’s too late. Reds already overserved now orange is over served by brownages

[BusHunter]

11 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Sounds like the same with the Dan Ryan. They started with concrete ties that were replaced with wood only a few years after the line opened. Yet they spent all that time doing only surface work until the 2013 shutdown where they tore everything from the ground up. Imagine the time and money that could’ve been saved if they did what was supposed to be done when it first started. Cta always tackles things short sightedly now watch they’re going to add service to the red and brown lines without properly addressing the imbalances till it’s too late. Reds already overserved now orange is over served by brownages

Riding the red line on Sunday was painfully slow. If your not riding the dan ryan or the subway you are in for a mega slow zone. What happened to the elevated structure? It runs so slow. Especially the brown line. I was thinking the north south main would be slow because of the construction. It's actually faster than the brown line!! Remember the composite ties I was talking about before that they put in, they put those in ballasted track like the ryan, or the kennedy blue line or nsm and the train seems to run faster there. On the elevated it's slow. I dont know if its cause the elevated is not using those ties or what. Green line runs good, I guess cause it doesnt have alot of service. I remember thinking this is not rapid transit. I was thinking the lsd service is probably faster. Maybe cta is concerned with a ridership spike there, that may be why so many artics have came back to np.

[Sam92]

4 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Riding the red line on Sunday was painfully slow. If your not riding the dan ryan or the subway you are in for a mega slow zone. What happened to the elevated structure? It runs so slow. Especially the brown line. I was thinking the north south main would be slow because of the construction. It's actually faster than the brown line!! Remember the composite ties I was talking about before that they put in, they put those in ballasted track like the ryan, or the kennedy blue line or nsm and the train seems to run faster there. On the elevated it's slow. I dont know if its cause the elevated is not using those ties or what. Green line runs good, I guess cause it doesnt have alot of service. I remember thinking this is not rapid transit. I was thinking the lsd service is probably faster. Maybe cta is concerned with a ridership spike there, that may be why so many artics have came back to np.

I thought the brown line elevated was using same parts as the loop? I know the pads and clips are the same and those used the same design as the Kennedy except the wells and van buren used wood but still the other composite fasteners. What got me is the dan Ryan using the Kennedy design on the curves but the orange line design on straight aways  

[BusHunter]

27 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

I thought the brown line elevated was using same parts as the loop? I know the pads and clips are the same and those used the same design as the Kennedy except the wells and van buren used wood but still the other composite fasteners. What got me is the dan Ryan using the Kennedy design on the curves but the orange line design on straight aways  

The nsm construction should be interesting. If they can rebuild the structure and have everything running good and maintain it, it might be the benchmark for future projects. How long can they use 120 year old steel anyway. The orange line runs pretty good because its newer structure. Its alot quieter than the traditional structure and that's a plus. 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

Sounds like the same with the Dan Ryan. They started with concrete ties that were replaced with wood only a few years after the line opened. Yet they spent all that time doing only surface work until the 2013 shutdown where they tore everything from the ground up. Imagine the time and money that could’ve been saved if they did what was supposed to be done when it first started. Cta always tackles things short sightedly now watch they’re going to add service to the red and brown lines without properly addressing the imbalances till it’s too late. Reds already overserved now orange is over served by brownages

DURING those years CTA neglected infrastructure work primarily due to lack of money.  That was a motivating factor in CTA  disconnecting the a/c on its GMC fishbowls and ordering new buses (Flyers. MAN Americanas and TMC RTS) with no a,/c.   Also financial issues led to one man operations, Blue Line derailment, etc.  The rail system became a bunch of slow zones.  Look at how many years between the 3200s and the 5000s.  The Republicans weren't willing to send money to Chicago under the governorship of Jim Edgar and George Ryan.   Remember that most of Illinois is anti Chicago.

If course there was mismanagement if funds and political  cronyism at CTA also.    That's the Chicago way.

 

.

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Interesting history. It's Ironic, both the #2000s and #2l400s were once assigned to the west northwest to both be moved to the dan ryan. 

Another thing if the #2000s had salt issues way back when why did they order the #2600s to fail the same way. Even the #3200s I believe had this problem. It wasnt until the Alstom #2600 rehab that they finally had trains that were salt proof. If you watch my youtube video  cta in crisis '99 they talk about the train shortage they experienced because of this. Why did it take them 20 to 25 years to figure that out?

I guess the issues didn't flare up until we had major snowstorms.   The Blizzards of 1979 and 1999 are in the top 5 of biggest snowstorms of all time in Chicago. Until then, both series survived a decade of winter weather with no issues.  But the massive amounts of snow plowed against the remedial which was a concrete wall with a lot of fence allowed the plowed snow and salt to accumulated on the tracks on the Kennedy, Eisenhower,  and Ryan Expressways.  The question is why weren't the tracks built higher in the medians unless there wouldn't have been enough clearance for the underpass?  I suppose we haven't had a big enough blizzard to see how the 5000s would respond.  Since the Red Line is the only line with 5000s to operate in the median of the expressway sans the Pink Line trains that run rush hour Blue to Jefferson Park,  i guess the jury's still out on the 5000s.

. 

[NovaBusFan]

6 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Ye true the 3200 series still work better keep them don't waste money on new railcars until the 3200s start having bigger issues like some 2600s are having now but idk which since their rehab was nearly 20 years ago

True and it marks 22 years since the rehab started

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

17 minutes ago, NovaBusFan said:

True and it marks 22 years since the rehab started

Ye the 2600 series rehabs started in 1999  I think after watching the Bushunter37 channel

[BusHunter]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I guess the issues didn't flare up until we had major snowstorms.   The Blizzards of 1979 and 1999 are in the top 5 of biggest snowstorms of all time in Chicago. Until then, both series survived a decade of winter weather with no issues.  But the massive amounts of snow plowed against the remedial which was a concrete wall with a lot of fence allowed the plowed snow and salt to accumulated on the tracks on the Kennedy, Eisenhower,  and Ryan Expressways.  The question is why weren't the tracks built higher in the medians unless there wouldn't have been enough clearance for the underpass?  I suppose we haven't had a big enough blizzard to see how the 5000s would respond.  Since the Red Line is the only line with 5000s to operate in the median of the expressway sans the Pink Line trains that run rush hour Blue to Jefferson Park,  i guess the jury's still out on the 5000s.

. 

Remember the infamous lsd snowstorm that disabled buses on the drive, nothing happened to the L cars in that storm. What the Alstom rehab did was seal the under carriage so the bad weather couldnt get in the vital electric parts. I wonder why New York railcar which rehabbed the #2200s didnt figure that out. 

[artthouwill]

23 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Remember the infamous lsd snowstorm that disabled buses on the drive, nothing happened to the L cars in that storm. What the Alstom rehab did was seal the under carriage so the bad weather couldnt get in the vital electric parts. I wonder why New York railcar which rehabbed the #2200s didnt figure that out. 

I'm assuming you are referring to the 2011 snowstorm.  I think that one was a top 3 snowstorm along with 1967 and 1979.  The majority of that storm took place late night into the wee hours of the next morning though the initial snowfall started during the evening rush.  By the height of the storm, a lit of the equipment wasn't in service rail wise though the artics were jackknifing on LSD.   Since then,  any significant snowfall promps CTA to pull buses, especially artics, off LSD. I believe CTA rail service was somewhat restored 2 days later.  I was able to get to work the day after that snowstorm.   I was acheduled for a 12 hour shift but wound up working 24 straight hours as my relief couldn't make it in.  His Metra UPNW was not running due to switching problems that resulted from the snowstorm.  

New York trains don't run in the expressway medians.  Mainly they run elevated or subway, with some nonsubway below grade service.  I don't really know if NY salts the streets. 

[BusHunter]

12 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I'm assuming you are referring to the 2011 snowstorm.  I think that one was a top 3 snowstorm along with 1967 and 1979.  The majority of that storm took place late night into the wee hours of the next morning though the initial snowfall started during the evening rush.  By the height of the storm, a lit of the equipment wasn't in service rail wise though the artics were jackknifing on LSD.   Since then,  any significant snowfall promps CTA to pull buses, especially artics, off LSD. I believe CTA rail service was somewhat restored 2 days later.  I was able to get to work the day after that snowstorm.   I was acheduled for a 12 hour shift but wound up working 24 straight hours as my relief couldn't make it in.  His Metra UPNW was not running due to switching problems that resulted from the snowstorm.  

New York trains don't run in the expressway medians.  Mainly they run elevated or subway, with some nonsubway below grade service.  I don't really know if NY salts the streets. 

NY has to salt the street or there would be chaos. Only southern towns put sand because a 2 or 3 inch storm is a big deal to them. 

Dont some Canadian cities run light rail in the expressway median. They are powered by electricity and should be prone to the same issues. Plus they run in the street most of the time. Seems to me their engineering might be a little bit better but we dont live there and we dont hear the local news. Would also be interesting to see how they run electric buses with the trolley wire in bad weather. Dont toronto have some of those. Would be cool to time travel and see what the cta did. 

I've been working alot of 17 hour days myself due to this shortage. I dont even know when I had my last day off. Nobody seems to care about paying the OT. 

 

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

NY has to salt the street or there would be chaos. Only southern towns put sand because a 2 or 3 inch storm is a big deal to them. 

Dont some Canadian cities run light rail in the expressway median. They are powered by electricity and should be prone to the same issues. Plus they run in the street most of the time. Seems to me their engineering might be a little bit better but we dont live there and we dont hear the local news. Would also be interesting to see how they run electric buses with the trolley wire in bad weather. Dont toronto have some of those. Would be cool to time travel and see what the cta did. 

I've been working alot of 17 hour days myself due to this shortage. I dont even know when I had my last day off. Nobody seems to care about paying the OT. 

 

I know Minneapolis has light rail.  Their electricity is wired based and not third rail.  The Blue Line runs through downtown St Paul and then runs in the middle of University Avenue then in downtown Minneapolis ito Target Field.  Traffic along the route averages 30mph.  That's different from Dan Ryan Traffic averages 70 plus  mph

  Minneapolis isn't plowing snow towards the tracks like we do here because there's a shoulder by the tracks .

If you are working all of these hours at the charter company. Your ELD may land you and your company in trouble.   Be careful. 

[Bus1883]

On 2/22/2021 at 6:30 PM, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Rn I’m in 5163 (has a weird sounding heater lol) and I just saw 5078. 5078 apparently has the original lighting from when the 5000 series were delivered years ago. I think it had the current lighting when I rode it last September too.

#5078 should have the same LED lighting like the rest of the fleet does not the original fluorescent lighting it once had before.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

50 minutes ago, Bus1883 said:

#5078 should have the same LED lighting like the rest of the fleet does not the original fluorescent lighting it once had before.

Back then it used to be a bit more yellow than the rest. Haven’t seen that lately so not sure if it’s normal white again or if it’s still a bit yellow

[Bus1883]

On 8/26/2021 at 9:54 PM, NovaBusFan said:

Well to me I hope the #5000s make it into the late 2040s into the early 2050s they are my favorites… most rail cars sit out for almost or after 40 years…. And quarter life overhauls is normal for most rail cars series I believe.

Some rail cars do retire a little after 30 years for some transit agencies depending on how fast or slow newer cars replace them.

the 2200s lasted (44 years) and the #2400s (38 years) the first batch of the #2600s made their 40 year mark. 
 

If options are picked up the #7000s will replace the #3200s in the mid 2020s I hope that doesn’t happen because the #3200s are one of my favorites and they are still running fine after the rehabs they’ve received.

Actually railcars can yet to be retired depending on how big or small the fleet is because remember some cars will end up getting used for parts to keep the remaining ones needing repairs of any wear and tear in any parts. The quarter life overhaul is basically heavy maintenance of the cars. Everything mechanical gets rebuilt and refurbished including motors, suspensions, braking, calipers, electrical components, gear box, assemblies, railcar trucks, traction, brakes, axles, suspension springs, propulsion systems, primary suspension pads etc. 

[andrethebusman99]

On 8/31/2021 at 7:25 AM, BusHunter said:

Interesting history. It's Ironic, both the #2000s and #2l400s were once assigned to the west northwest to both be moved to the dan ryan. 

Another thing if the #2000s had salt issues way back when why did they order the #2600s to fail the same way. Even the #3200s I believe had this problem. It wasnt until the Alstom #2600 rehab that they finally had trains that were salt proof. If you watch my youtube video  cta in crisis '99 they talk about the train shortage they experienced because of this. Why did it take them 20 to 25 years to figure that out?

There was tremendous damage done to 2000s on 1/1/80 (day after big snow). There was an effort made to plow the line Laramie to Harlem that took two days and involved taking 12 car trains of 2000s from Harlem Yard and ramming them repeatedly into the snow drifts until they stalled until so many in that set had blown motors it could barely move. Then they would take those 12 back and take 12 more and repeat the process until they finally punched thru on 1/3. By that point maybe 60 cars had had their motors destroyed (not to mention the damage to the rail this caused). By February you were running 8 car trains of 2000s with 4 with functioning motors (and thus brakes) and 4 just riding along, motors cut out. Very slow, very poor braking, but by then things had basically fallen apart and more and more flat-door 6000s were keeping the line running.

It wasn't so much the salt getting on as the incredible abuse in the first days after the storm that caused most of the damage. Until then, they were pretty darn good running cars.

[strictures]

On 1/31/2022 at 12:02 AM, Bus1883 said:

Actually railcars can yet to be retired depending on how big or small the fleet is because remember some cars will end up getting used for parts to keep the remaining ones needing repairs of any wear and tear in any parts. The quarter life overhaul is basically heavy maintenance of the cars. Everything mechanical gets rebuilt and refurbished including motors, suspensions, braking, calipers, electrical components, gear box, assemblies, railcar trucks, traction, brakes, axles, suspension springs, propulsion systems, primary suspension pads etc. 

I want the 5000s rebuilt with forward/backwards seats, not the bench style crap we now have!  That jerk that put that in them then retired immediately & no one at CTA had the common sense to override that!