5000-series - Updates

[RJL6000]

Speaking of the #2000's, those were removed from West-Northwest when it was discovered they were incompatible with the at grade sections of the Douglas branch. I forget what the problem was. I think either it was the cars were too heavy for that area or there was premature wear on cars traveling through that section, so the cars were yanked.

The 2000s were causing noticeable "rumbling" when run on the at-grade sections of the Douglas branch. And the residents who lived nearby complained about the deep rumbling noise. Thus, in their last year of West-Northwest service, the 2000s were restricted to Congress-Milwaukee runs.

Thank goodness that the 2200s did not cause the same problem when they were run on the ground-level section of the Douglas branch (although that line, now the Pink Line, is now currently run with 2600s - some of which were the very last railcars ever built by the Budd Company - but it will get 5000s within the next month or two).

[geneking7320]

ToppDawg, add two more to the roster!!! I was driving down Oakton st. in Des Plaines this afternoon, on my way to Des Plaines Hobbies. I spotted one flatbed semi truck carrying car #5049 and within a few minutes #5050 was right behind. Both cars of course headed to Skokie. I quickly changed my plans, turned around and followed the convoy all the way to Skokie Shops, I snapped some good pics in transit, pics of the new Oakton Station and the arrival at Skokie Shops, it was pretty cool to watch. I liked looking at the superclean undercarriages, chalk marks on the wheels and the brand new carbody. Once in Skokie, the convoy truck drivers didnt mind me snapping pics. Also I made sure I stayed across the street so as not to upset anyone! . More to come!!!

OK, We are waiting for the pics! :)

[Busjack]

...I spotted one flatbed semi truck carrying car #5049 and within a few minutes #5050 was right behind. ...

OK, We are waiting for the pics!

Only 656 to go!!! Or, maybe more.

[Guest]

OK, We are waiting for the pics!

Im trying a new way to download my pics. Ill have them up asap! :)

[toppdawg12]

ToppDawg, add two more to the roster!!! I was driving down Oakton st. in Des Plaines this afternoon, on my way to Des Plaines Hobbies. I spotted one flatbed semi truck carrying car #5049 and within a few minutes #5050 was right behind. Both cars of course headed to Skokie. I quickly changed my plans, turned around and followed the convoy all the way to Skokie Shops, I snapped some good pics in transit, pics of the new Oakton Station and the arrival at Skokie Shops, it was pretty cool to watch. I liked looking at the superclean undercarriages, chalk marks on the wheels and the brand new carbody. Once in Skokie, the convoy truck drivers didnt mind me snapping pics. Also I made sure I stayed across the street so as not to upset anyone! . More to come!!!

Awesome!

[Mr.cta85]

ToppDawg, add two more to the roster!!! I was driving down Oakton st. in Des Plaines this afternoon, on my way to Des Plaines Hobbies. I spotted one flatbed semi truck carrying car #5049 and within a few minutes #5050 was right behind. Both cars of course headed to Skokie. I quickly changed my plans, turned around and followed the convoy all the way to Skokie Shops, I snapped some good pics in transit, pics of the new Oakton Station and the arrival at Skokie Shops, it was pretty cool to watch. I liked looking at the superclean undercarriages, chalk marks on the wheels and the brand new carbody. Once in Skokie, the convoy truck drivers didnt mind me snapping pics. Also I made sure I stayed across the street so as not to upset anyone! . More to come!!!

Wow great update 5750 I was starting to wonder what was going on with the 5000's. 5049 and 5050 that's great I kinda figured it was around 50 or more cars here already my guess was 60 though but either way that's great news can wait to see the pics!! And once again good stuff!!

[Guest]

Wow great update 5750 I was starting to wonder what was going on with the 5000's. 5049 and 5050 that's great I kinda figured it was around 50 or more cars here already my guess was 60 though but either way that's great news can wait to see the pics!! And once again good stuff!!

I drove past Skokie shops again earlier today, the Pullman 2000 series Heritage train is sitting right near the fence off of Oakton st. Good photo op!

[toppdawg12]

Meanwhile, back to the 5000s: How many are in revenue service and where?

[greenstreet]

Meanwhile, back to the 5000s: How many are in revenue service and where?

Here's what I know:

There are a total of 14 production cars on property: 5001-02, 5013-14, 5019-20, 5021-22, 5039-40, 5049-50 and the latest pair, 5015-16. (The first 5 pairs have been accepted by CTA, the last two are still being inspected.)

There are 6 prototype cars still at Skokie awaiting return to Bombardier. (The prototypes need to be retrofitted to meet CTA specs.)

The 10 cars that have been accepted are at 54th/Cermak and are being used for training.

No cars are currently in revenue service.

[RJL6000]

I am now guessing that just because the Pink and Green Lines will be the first two lines to receive 5000s, it does not mean that both lines will be entirely equipped with the new cars. (The Pink Line might be entirely equipped with these new cars, but the Green Line will likely be equipped with a collection of 5000s and 2600- or 3200-series cars - in other words, the Green Line will likely get about 60 of the 5000s with the rest of that line's fleet being rounded out with 2600- and/or 3200-series cars.)

[Busjack]

Here's what I know:

There are a total of 14 production cars on property: 5001-02, 5013-14, 5019-20, 5021-22, 5039-40, 5049-50 and the latest pair, 5015-16. (The first 5 pairs have been accepted by CTA, the last two are still being inspected.)

There are 6 prototype cars still at Skokie awaiting return to Bombardier. (The prototypes need to be retrofitted to meet CTA specs.)

The 10 cars that have been accepted are at 54th/Cermak and are being used for training.

...

So, my alternative was right. There are 686 to go. :lol:

[Busjack]

I am now guessing that just because the Pink and Green Lines will be the first two lines to receive 5000s, it does not mean that both lines will be entirely equipped with the new cars. (The Pink Line might be entirely equipped with these new cars, but the Green Line will likely be equipped with a collection of 5000s and 2600- or 3200-series cars - in other words, the Green Line will likely get about 60 of the 5000s with the rest of that line's fleet being rounded out with 2600- and/or 3200-series cars.)

Since they can't run mixed, at least in a train, the Green Line one still doesn't make sense. Of course, Claypool is in charge.

[sw4400]

Again, that's where my theory of the Brown Line going all 5000's comes in. With the off-peak time on this line at 2a, the 3200's can start to move out of the Kimball Yard to whatever new Yard destination(s) the CTA sees fit. The Blue Line needs railcars that can be trained together, even if they're mixed series. The 3200's can pair up with the 2600's, where the 5000's can only pair up with themselves. As time goes on and the deliveries continue, the other lines will start getting these cars. The 3200's from the Brown Line(162) can replace the 2200's from the Blue Line(132, with 30 extra cars to either stay at the Blue Line or cut the amount of 2400's on the Purple Line nearly in half).

[RJL6000]

Since they can't run mixed, at least in a train, the Green Line one still doesn't make sense. Of course, Claypool is in charge.

And that (if my latest predictions were correct) would not be the first time that this has occurred. Until the 1990s with the retirement of the 5-50 series single-unit cars (siblings to the 6000-series cars of the 1950s), many of the CTA lines ran with a collection of series that could not be trained together due to their different electrical systems. When the 2000s first arrived in 1964, the West-Northwest Route (which were assigned 40 of them) ran mostly with 6000-series cars. This situation on the West-Northwest Route continued even after the 2000s were replaced on the line with the 2200s. And when the 2400s rolled in during 1976-1979, the North-South and the Ravenswood lines also ran with collections of newer and incompatible older cars. This situation eventually spread to the Evanston and Skokie lines during the 1980s and 1990s, respectively. (And that's not to mention the now-current L lines except the Lake Street line running with a mixture of 6000s and older 4000s, which were incompatible with one another.) With the retirement of the 6000s and the mothballing of most of the 5-50s, the Purple and Yellow Lines became the last two lines officially running with a mixture of 5-50s and newer cars (though as late as 1997, a few 5-50s did run on the Blue and Green Lines even though the Lake Street portion of the Green Line was never officially assigned any 1950s PCC equipment). In the case of 5-50 series car usage on the Purple and Yellow Lines in the mid-1990s, any such cars were limited to standby status, used only when there were an insufficient number of operable newer-series cars on either line that day; otherwise, the Purple and Yellow Lines operated entirely with 2600s and pantograph-equipped 3200s, respectively. (Of course, the former Yellow Line-equipped 3200s are now all on the Brown Line.)

And of course, F. "Gump" Claypool is in charge.

[Guest]

And that (if my latest predictions were correct) would not be the first time that this has occurred. Until the 1990s with the retirement of the 5-50 series single-unit cars (siblings to the 6000-series cars of the 1950s), many of the CTA lines ran with a collection of series that could not be trained together due to their different electrical systems. When the 2000s first arrived in 1964, the West-Northwest Route (which were assigned 40 of them) ran mostly with 6000-series cars. This situation on the West-Northwest Route continued even after the 2000s were replaced on the line with the 2200s. And when the 2400s rolled in during 1976-1979, the North-South and the Ravenswood lines also ran with collections of newer and incompatible older cars. This situation eventually spread to the Evanston and Skokie lines during the 1980s and 1990s, respectively. (And that's not to mention the now-current L lines except the Lake Street line running with a mixture of 6000s and older 4000s, which were incompatible with one another.) With the retirement of the 6000s and the mothballing of most of the 5-50s, the Purple and Yellow Lines became the last two lines officially running with a mixture of 5-50s and newer cars (though as late as 1997, a few 5-50s did run on the Blue and Green Lines even though the Lake Street portion of the Green Line was never officially assigned any 1950s PCC equipment). In the case of 5-50 series car usage on the Purple and Yellow Lines in the mid-1990s, any such cars were limited to standby status, used only when there were an insufficient number of operable newer-series cars on either line that day; otherwise, the Purple and Yellow Lines operated entirely with 2600s and pantograph-equipped 3200s, respectively. (Of course, the former Yellow Line-equipped 3200s are now all on the Brown Line.)

And of course, F. "Gump" Claypool is in charge.

What a joke huh??? This just couldnt get any more ridiculous!

[RJL6000]

What a joke huh??? This just couldnt get any more ridiculous!

Sorry 'bout my last post. Basically, I repeated what's already been stated, and I was facetious about the last sentence.

[BusHunter]

What a joke huh??? This just couldnt get any more ridiculous!

From the sounds of it, it would appear to me up to #5050 has been built but the big gap of cars have been rejected and are in the repair stage still at Bombardier. Even though the CTA hasn't gotten cars before last week except prototypes, Bombardier has been building them all this time. Well, with the recent acceptance of cars it would appear the train is finally rolling down the track, so to speak. After training the cars will finally show up in service. The only problem being that pink line is going to use Green line's #5050, which is going to be a mess on the number series side. Expect incomplete number series on the different lines until this gets hashed out. Or a dual delivery to two lines at once. It all depends if cars come in mass quantities or not. On the joke side, I bet Bombardier was/is wondering where they were going to store all the extra cars, they only have so much extra space and are not building cars only for Chicago.

[Amtrak41]

What else is Bombardier of Plattsburgh building right now ?

[Busjack]

From the sounds of it, it would appear to me up to #5050 has been built but the big gap of cars have been rejected and are in the repair stage still at Bombardier. Even though the CTA hasn't gotten cars before last week except prototypes, Bombardier has been building them all this time. ...

As I pointed out to someone who said Bombardier had CTA cars in inventory, that was at Bombardier's risk until such time as CTA gave the notice that the first 10 passed the test. Apparently, though, Bombardier did have some CTA cars in inventory then.

The issue though, is similar to when you posted the 6400 bus in service list, and it certainly wasn't in numeric order. Also, at least with the 2400s and 3200s, the carmaker (Boeing or whatever Morrison-Knudsen was in 1992) got the shells from a foreign source. Since Bombardier is now an international company (not clear if it is Canadian, Belgian, or German these days), even if it fabricates its own shells, probably not here. (The literature I cited in the next post indicates that they did buy up the Budd design, on which all CTA cars since the 2200s was based).

Thus, if serial numbers are assigned to the shells, it is possible that they were delivered out of order.

One would have to be in the Plattsburgh facility to know for sure.

[Busjack]

What else is Bombardier of Plattsburgh building right now ?

I'm not on the inside, but it seems like they have 4 main rail products:

• Metros, the main current order being CTA, but they have been a supplier to NYC.
• Bilevel cars, basically distinguishable from the Japanese ones Metra has by being 2 full stories at the entrance, and narrowing in height over the trucks. For instance, their site indicates the the Orlando Florida area bought some. New Jersey has some bilevels of a different design.
• LRVs--like in Minneapolis.
• Acela high speed rail.

Their literature indicates that they also have a rail assembly plant near Pittsburgh.

pdf brochure

[greenstreet]

From the sounds of it, it would appear to me up to #5050 has been built but the big gap of cars have been rejected and are in the repair stage still at Bombardier.

That might be an incorrect assumption. I'm not aware that any cars have been delivered to CTA, rejected and then sent back to Bombardier for repair.

Even though the CTA hasn't gotten cars before last week except prototypes, Bombardier has been building them all this time.

If I gave the impression that last week marked the first delivery of non-prototype cars, I apologize. That was not what I was trying to convey. Although I don't have exact delivery dates for all the cars, I call tell you this much:

5001-02: delivered prior to 7/28/11

5013-14, 5019-22: delivered prior to 8/16/11

5039-40: delivered prior to 9/17/11

5049-50, 5015-16: delivered 9/19/11 and 9/21/11

The only problem being that pink line is going to use Green line's #5050, which is going to be a mess on the number series side.

Why do you think that 5050 would belong to the Green Line? If there is an expected assignment list, then I missed it. Even if all the cars came in in numerical order (which they haven't) the Pink Line would be expected to get cars up to 5054 (since the 10 prototypes are going back for retrofitting, and assuming the current assignment of 44 cars). Edit: I understand that rail maintenance's plan is for cars to go to Pink Line and then Green, I'm unaware that any numerical assignments have been made.

Or a dual delivery to two lines at once. It all depends if cars come in mass quantities or not.

No deliveries are made to lines. They are all delivered to Skokie Shops first, for inspection and acceptance.

The 256 3200-series cars were delivered over a two-year time frame. Does anyone know if those were delivered in numerical order? I don't.

[Amtrak41]

I'm not on the inside, but it seems like they have 4 main rail products:

• Metros, the main current order being CTA, but they have been a supplier to NYC.
• Bilevel cars, basically distinguishable from the Japanese ones Metra has by being 2 full stories at the entrance, and narrowing in height over the trucks. For instance, their site indicates the the Orlando Florida area bought some. New Jersey has some bilevels of a different design.
• LRVs--like in Minneapolis.
• Acela high speed rail.

Their literature indicates that they also have a rail assembly plant near Pittsburgh.

pdf brochure

Doesn't look like they have anything going on now except CTA rail cars. All the rest is history.

[Busjack]

Why do you think that 5050 would belong to the Green Line? If there is an expected assignment list, then I missed it....

Basically, the only source for the Green Line statement was something at the bottom of chicago-l.org 5000 page. [if the referred link doesn't work, right click, select "Copy Link Location," and paste in your browser's url bar.] Also, it seems that the only source Graham had was something mentioned at an ADA Advisory Committee meeting.

I noted before that CTA still has not published a press release saying that it approved proceeding with the production order. Maybe it is waiting for the "cars to enter revenue service," but of course it would seem somewhat weird for Rahm to hold a press conference with Forrest standing behind him at the yards in Cicero. Maybe that press conference will be held on a platform in Pilsen.

[chgofan78]

If the Pink Line is the first route to get the new cars, I'm willing to bet money that they will have to receive more than the 44 cars they currently have assigned to it now- only because the 5000-series can not operate with the existing fleet. If the cta decides to continue with the normal 4-car operation, I'd say 48 to 56 cars would be assigned during this early stage. I don't think the Pink Line will be borrowing the 2600-series from the Blue Line anymore if it has the 5000-series assigned to it. They would want to have enough spare cars to compensate if any problems arose. They could cut back to the normal 44 cars once a second route is fully equipped with the cars.

[toppdawg12]

If memory serves(as it often does), no railcars have ever been delivered in numerical order.