5000-series - Updates

[Guest ctafan630]

I don't really go with extending the money argument to the LED destination signs vs the roller signs. LED signs are more versatile for cases of brand new short turns or extensions implemented on a route by programming that destination into a controller whereas a roller sign would have to be completely replaced in every car uses one to add those new destinations on top of making adjustments to the controller for a roller sign.

First off the LED destination signs on the side of the train are probably cheaper in the long run instead of the current roller curtains. I will agree that is cheaper to reprogram the sign than to have roller curtains replaced.

However my argument was strictly pointed to the LED "You are Here" Map that idicates where the train is along the map. I fell this is much more expensive to replace when there are route extensions and station additions. If there is a route extension or station addition, you would still have to replace all the current plastic cards found above the doors. However with the new 5000 series cars, you have at least one more more plastic card to replace and some how add additional "dots" to indicate the new station on the electronic map board. This is in addition to the additional time it takes to remove the old sign since it currently fastened to the display.

[Guest ctafan630]

Getting back to the one controller issue, someone reported on a Metra board that some announcements (which are gps controlled on Metra) played twice, and the explanation there was that the gps in two cabs was on.

I will have to watch this when I go home tonight on Metra. I believe the Metra LED message displays have always shown the message twice. I thought this was a programing issue rather than having the GPS in two cabs on.

[Guest ctafan630]

Well true, keep in mind your talking about technology that involves mechanical parts moving. These parts may fail over time. As there wouldn’t be moving parts on an LED sign failure would be less frequent but I’m sure yes it could happen, technology is not perfect. Maybe I’m wrong but in case of the blue line showing wrong destination signs, I believe they changed content of them not long ago when adding Jefferson park and UIC Halstead short runs, thus if a person hasn’t changed the physical roll sign, it’s not likely going to show the correct destination. As there isn’t any physical object to change this wouldn’t be an issue in an LED sign.

I wonder what the failure rate is between bus LED signs versus the old roller signs? Are there any garage mechanics on this board that could say which is more prone to failure?

[Busjack]

I will have to watch this when I go home tonight on Metra. I believe the Metra LED message displays have always shown the message twice. I thought this was a programing issue rather than having the GPS in two cabs on.

The comment had to do with the voice message [by the use of the word "announcements"].

[Guest]

Does anyone know when the 5000s will be on the Blue Line?

[Guest ctafan630]

The comment had to do with the voice message [by the use of the word "announcements"].

Thanks for clarifying, sorry if I misunderstood.

Anyways I did look into this on the way home. The voice announcement played once for the run number and seating PSA when we left the station. At this time the LED message only showed one time. When we got to Downers Grove, the "Next Stop" voice announcement played once and the LED message displayed one time. However after leaving Naperville, the "Next Stop" voice announcement played once, but the LED message displayed two times. The same goes for the "Now Arriving" announcement and message.

[dauber]

Okay...I've seen the 5000 train four times. Three of those four times, it was running express, including this morning. What's going on?? I know this is a TEST run, but still...

[dauber]

Pressed into service is a little strong! Planned to enter service is more correct. They will be running on the Red line Mondays to Fridays until 14th may.

So they're not running on weekends???

[dauber]

Okay, so I left work a little bit early today because I wasn't feeling well...and I happened to get the new train from Harrison; I rode in car #5010 on run 827 (at least, that's what the sign and announcements said). Here are some observations:

- It's VERY bright inside the car. Not the bad kind of bright you'd think you'd get from fluorescent lighting, either; it was actually quite pleasant.

- I don't think it was made clear in this thread, but in addition to the lighted CTA map that shows you your current location via LEDs, the cars still have the old-fashioned paper maps above the exits. And yeah, the lighted map is in the middle of the car, but guess what -- it's the same on the NYC subway system (and in fact, in the 1, 2, 3, and 7 trains, at least, there's only one map in the whole car....lotsa luck if you're not standing in the middle of the car!)...

- The ride in the subway is VERY noticeably smoother and quieter. Now...in the usual 2x00 and 3x00 trains, I have to turn my iPod up pretty loud to be able to hear it (and I wear studio headphones that block out external sounds). But in car #5010, I could actually turn it down to a regular volume and could hear everything perfectly clearly.

- Having said that...for some reason, once we got OUT of the subway, the ride was no longer smooth and quiet...it was very clackety, jerky, bumpy, and loud, as with any other CTA train. Had to turn the iPod back up again.

- Yeah, no seat in the motor cab area...but there is this huge metal box against the wall that looks like an ideal place to set up a laptop if you don't mind typing while standing.

- Everything Mr. CTA says (except "Doors closing") also appears on LED signs inside the car -- the next station (including both street names in, say, "Chicago and State" and "North and Clybourn"), on what side of the car the doors open, the warning messages, etc. I don't know about delay announcements, though, because I had the biggest shock of my life: for the first time EVER, there wasn't a single delay on my workday commute. It does sound like Mr. CTA's little interstitial announcements have some extra pauses so that his announcements are kinda-sorta in sync with the LED boards. For example, there might be a longer pause than normal between "Doors open on the left at Wilson" and "Smoking, littering, gambling..." (or whatever)

- The sound quality on the driver's PA is a HUUUUUUUGE improvement -- the EQ is much better, and you can actually tell that the driver is telling you to not board the train while the doors close!

- The car actually feels a lot LESS roomy than the 2x00/3x00 series cars, though, the way the seating is arranged...except for the forward-facing seats by the handicapped seating area. It DOES look like you can fit more wheelchair customers in these things, though.

- I stood up from Monroe to Thorndale due to the onslaught of corporate commuters; I didn't feel like sitting next to someone wearing a tie. (Since the womb, I've had this weird fear of being approached by someone wearing a tie.) And you know what? They did NOT look comfortable. Even when most of the suits got off the train and were replaced by real people wearing regular clothes, it didn't look any better...and we're talking people who, unlike me, are not morbidly obese. The only way someone can sit comfortably in these cars if every seat is taken is if said person is anorexic and not wearing any clothes. Yes, even skinny teenagers who looked like they were trying to emulate starving supermodels looked physically uncomfortable sitting next to each other. They were jam-packed, elbow-to-elbow.

But overall, I was surprisingly impressed. The excitement did wear out after only a few stops, though. Then again, I think I just wanted to get home.

[Busjack]

- Having said that...for some reason, once we got OUT of the subway, the ride was no longer smooth and quiet...it was very clackety, jerky, bumpy, and loud, as with any other CTA train. Had to turn the iPod back up again.

I suppose that all the track work in the subway over the past 2 or 3 years, the track would be in better shape there than on the L structure. One also has to consider all the new switches put in on the "Brown Line improvement portion" (Clark Jct, south) jerking around the train.

However, since the track seems pretty good north of Lawrence, and you said you rode to Thorndale (did you run into Dr. Hartley?) was it any better in that stretch?

[dauber]

However, since the track seems pretty good north of Lawrence, and you said you rode to Thorndale (did you run into Dr. Hartley?) was it any better in that stretch?

No to both questions.

(Speaking of Dr. Hartley...what station is that in some of the scene transitions??? It's a street-level station with a train with a Howard destination sign, so it was obviously a pre-Purple Line train....possible it would have been Isabella??)

[Busjack]

No to both questions.

(Speaking of Dr. Hartley...what station is that in some of the scene transitions??? It's a street-level station with a train with a Howard destination sign, so it was obviously a pre-Purple Line train....possible it would have been Isabella??)

The best one can tell, based on news stories at the time and chicago-l.org is that it was Isabella. However, later episodes of the show (the ones with the segue shots of the 7400 series bus with the 151 Sheridan Union Station sign) indicate that his apartment was at Throndale South, although that sign is no longer on the building.

I used to have a contest about all the discontinuities in the original opening.

[BusHunter]

Isn't that the way it is supposed to be with the current roller signs? The signs are controlled by the active cab, but for one reason or another some cars operate with a mind of their own.

Hence the need for the paper route signs soon to be posted on the train cars.

Here's something interesting about the LED signs. #5007-08 was out yesterday on the Red line test train. This was the pair that was not out on Monday's test train. #5007 had no working LED signs (no destination signs, no information sign at the ends of the car displaying the date time and station were working) There was no audible announcements, nor was the LED system map working either. Now in car #5008 (which is it's mate) everything was working fine, There were even the audible announcements. Also There were no paper signs that I could see on #5007 which was at the end of the train. (Must have made for an interesting lead car for the NB trip.)

[Busjack]

So they're not running on weekends???

CTA Tattler just posted a schedule.

[Busjack]

#5007 had no working LED signs (no destination signs, no information sign at the ends of the car displaying the date time and station were working) There was no audible announcements, nor was the LED system map working either. Now in car #5008 (which is it's mate) everything was working fine, There were even the audible announcements. Also There were no paper signs that I could see on #5007 which was at the end of the train. (Must have made for an interesting lead car for the NB trip.)

On the last point, unless the Purple Line is running in the subway or on tracks 2 and 3 on the north side, it shouldn't make a difference.

However, your prior comment does raise another strange thought in my mind. Given that all the accessory electronics were dead, there must be cables and pins to transmit the signal to control them among cars. Of course, between the two married cars, it would be cables. However, if certain connections were needed to do that, it is unlikely that the ones between 5000s would be compatible with the ones coming before it. That would be in addition to surmises that because of "infinite positions" on the main controller and having to manage regenerative braking, it probably wouldn't be practical to train cars with different traction power together, even if that theoretically would be possible.

Any engineers to shed light on these weird thoughts?

[trainman8119]

Aside from my desire for roller curtains, given the history of how electronic signs on buses are maintained, it is no surprise that they would crap out on the trains too, if not now, then later. It is only surprising that with this new stuff out there that this would be one priority to keep up to date, at least during the "testing" phase to give the impression that this equiptment is better/worse in the eyes of the public (there are already questions on the seating, which we will be stuck with because the brilliant brass in charge will never admit to a mistake).

[nflyer22]

They will be running on the Red line Mondays to Fridays until 14th May.

They should also be testing them on the weekends as well, caught them leaving Cermak-Chinatown earlier today at 17:13 headed for Howard. Sorry that I didn't have my camera with me.

[Guest]

Here's something interesting about the LED signs. #5007-08 was out yesterday on the Red line test train. This was the pair that was not out on Monday's test train. #5007 had no working LED signs (no destination signs, no information sign at the ends of the car displaying the date time and station were working) There was no audible announcements, nor was the LED system map working either. Now in car #5008 (which is it's mate) everything was working fine, There were even the audible announcements. Also There were no paper signs that I could see on #5007 which was at the end of the train. (Must have made for an interesting lead car for the NB trip.)

As the saying goes, "You get what you pay for!"

[Busjack]

As the ld saying goes, "You get what you pay for!"

In this case, though, it was $1.6 million a car.

[Scionic]

On the last point, unless the Purple Line is running in the subway or on tracks 2 and 3 on the north side, it shouldn't make a difference.

However, your prior comment does raise another strange thought in my mind. Given that all the accessory electronics were dead, there must be cables and pins to transmit the signal to control them among cars. Of course, between the two married cars, it would be cables. However, if certain connections were needed to do that, it is unlikely that the ones between 5000s would be compatible with the ones coming before it. That would be in addition to surmises that because of "infinite positions" on the main controller and having to manage regenerative braking, it probably wouldn't be practical to train cars with different traction power together, even if that theoretically would be possible.

Any engineers to shed light on these weird thoughts?

I seem to recall hearing comments that the 5000-series and the everything-else-series are incompatible with each other, for the reasons you explained. There's all sorts of conversion hardware they'd have to put between the series to convert the newer solid state controls to the older electromechanical controls.

[jacksone44]

They should also be testing them on the weekends as well, caught them leaving Cermak-Chinatown earlier today at 17:13 headed for Howard. Sorry that I didn't have my camera with me.

I can vouch for you. Saw them at Lawrence around 745PM today headed south.

[cta5658]

i'm gonna go to 95th/Dan Ryan on tuesday and try to find the 5000's, which location at 95th is a good view to get a picture?

[masno16]

Today , I rode one of those 5000s rail car...It was definitely nice to ride in it, but too many questions were in my mind from Granville to Jackson on my way to work.

1. What happened to this?

What happened to CTA going green? those new LED lights are just a waste of energy .. Most CTA riders know

-the direction they're going toward

-the date & time

I strongly believe it's a total waste of energy that could be used to better causes.

2. What happened to the seats ? I am quite sure that there is a minimum reduction of 10 seats in those new cars.. I would like to see it during rush hours.. Also, "those seats are pretty bad in the arrangement": this will be so much uncomfortable for people...

It's true it does give a "modern transit-look" to Chicago ,as many others cities in the world, with the new cameras, LED lights and floor strips. Oh, almost forgot, it makes less noise (let's hope this isn't just due to its newish condition)..However, this is a bad choice: I heard each car is an average $1.6 million dollars....

*1.6 million dollars per car that will result in more energy costs to be translated in upcoming increased fares (no respect for the chicagoans' wallets) ?

* 1.6 million for less seats and less comfort?

*1.6 million for less noise ?

PS: What do they do to the old cars?

[BusHunter]

Yesterday evening, I was on the test train and the supervisor that was riding along was asking if they were going to cut the 8 car train into a 4 car train for the 7:3? P.M. pullout from Howard SB. They answered back they would not be cutting the train. They seem to want to keep the train 8 cars. I wonder what's going to happen when they hit the green line in three weeks. Will they be running it there as an 8 car train? Or could there possibly be two 4 car test trains if they intend to run it on the weekend there? BTW, I was doing a little thinking with 8 months left in the year and 8 CTA rail lines, it would appear that they want to run the train for a period of 4 weeks per line. If so, testing would conclude Nov 30th.

[Busjack]

What happened to CTA going green? those new LED lights are just a waste of energy .. Most CTA riders know

-the direction they're going toward

-the date & time

I strongly believe it's a total waste of energy that could be used to better causes.

I'm pretty sure that the power to run the LEDs is de minimus, even compared to the power needed to run the fluorescent lights behind the roll signs on the head end, not to mention the fluorescent lights near the advertising racks. I'm sure we have an electrical engineer here to tell us one way or the other. Basically the interior signs are an ADA requirement for the deaf. The date and time are just fluff, but they are on the signs in the buses, too.

*1.6 million dollars per car that will result in more energy costs to be translated in upcoming increased fares (no respect for the chicagoans' wallets) ?

Your forgot about power put back into the third rail by regenerative braking.

PS: What do they do to the old cars?

Eventually scrap them. While the stainless steel bodies don't look that bad, one can be pretty sure that the undercar equipment is shot, especially after having plowed through several snow storms (including the one of 1979), and, in the case of the 2200s, being used for over 40 years, with a rehab 19 years ago. One of the reasons that CTA was, in effect, forced by the carmakers to order AC equipment is undoubtedly that parts won't be around to continually fix the 40 year old cars. Metra says they have to replace the 1970s era Highliners for the same reason.

I don't have any quarrel about your observations about the seats.