Pace Bus Moves

[Busjack]

21 minutes ago, Railguy said:

Keep this up and 210 passengers will go away them cut route.   Cut the trips you cant operate.  Publish realistic schedules, dont take passengers for granted. They could care less if school mids get pref over a senior.  Borders on discrimination

Not really. We have gone through 2 generations of elderly sporadically riding the routes I listed for the 15 years at issue. The 3 or 4 passengers could be served by paratransit or an On Demand solution. In similar situations (such as when Pace cut midday service on 240 and 241 because there were only 8 riders), the Board said it was in the mass transit business. While there is some debate about public buses in school service, Pace's (and CTA's) school trips meet FTA requirements. Are 130 students supposed to walk? Especially since the school bus companies are short drivers, too?

[artthouwill]

2 minutes ago, Railguy said:

Keep this up and 210 passengers will go away them cut route.   Cut the trips you cant operate.  Publish realistic schedules, dont take passengers for granted. They could care less if school mids get pref over a senior.  Borders on discrimination

I think it's a matter of passenger demand moreso than age discrimination.  130 passengers is more than 8 passengers whether its 130 high schoolers to 8 seniors or 130 seniors to 8 high schoolers.  Buses are designed to carry many people.  Yes it socks for the 8 passengers    i have been on both sides.   I have been the passenger standing in the cold waiting for over an hour for a bus that's supposed to have 20 - 30 minute frequencies.   I have also been the one to have to make the difficult decision to cancel a trip on a route with very little ridership to cover a route with higher passenger demand.   As that decision maker, you are dambed either way, especially when there are few to no alternatives for the few.  Obviously the goal is to cover every run. But when you are short personnel, and short available equipment,  and traffic and weather are brutal, and you have to be mindful of D.O.T. laws concerning drivers hours of duty, hard choices have to be made sometimes.

Mornings are problematic because you have no resources to pull from.  You might have a few drivers on stand by to try to mitigate some of the problems,  but a staffing shortage will use them up daily.  The next possible line of defense is to have mechanics fill in as drivers.  That means buses aren't getting fixed.  At least for the PM you have a hope for some of the AM drivers to work overtime.   Again you have to be mindful of hours of service.  Drivers fatigue becomes a real thing and a safety issue.   

Maybe Pace should consider contracting out some of their lower ridership routes and the 30 ft  EZ Riders.  MV might better be able to cover 210 and 230 or any route that NS, NW  or SW uses EZ Riders on, possibly freeing up some drivers for other runs.  This won't solve the issue, but could soften the blows some.

[Busjack]

26 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

As that decision maker, you are dam[n]ed either way, especially when there are few to no alternatives for the few. 

Especially in the case of diagonal routes, Pace says there are alternatives. On 210, 290 and 82 serve Lincolnwood Town Center, and much of it overlays or is parallel to 250. And Pace has Trapeze data on where and when each passenger boards and departs.

26 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

...

Maybe Pace should consider contracting out some of their lower ridership routes and the 30 ft  EZ Riders.  MV might better be able to cover 210 and 230 or any route that NS, NW  or SW uses EZ Riders on, possibly freeing up some drivers for other runs.  This won't solve the issue, but could soften the blows some.

Pace doesn't even have to do that, based on the ridership. On Demand or TNC would be sufficient.

Also, at least in DuPage County, the paratransir contractor was short drivers and missed trips, too.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Railguy said:

Keep this up and 210 passengers will go away them cut route.   Cut the trips you cant operate.  Publish realistic schedules, dont take passengers for granted. They could care less if school mids get pref over a senior.  Borders on discrimination

The other thing is that the shortages are fluid.    That means a lot of the open shifts are relief shifts so different routes can experience shortages day to day.  Even if some of those get filled, you still have the regular drivers that will call in sick.  CTA has adjusted its rail schedule to accomplish reliability and service is still consistently inconsisent..  The staffing shortages ate severe and callboffs exacerbate the problem.  Pace has to be flexible enough to meet the most demand.  Perhaps the best solution is to cut the 210 altogether.   It's a shell of the route I remember as a kid when the route ran downtown.   It was my first exposure to NORTRAN.  But it's been cut down to useless now.

[busfan2847]

2753, 2754, 2756 and 2759 moved from Heritage to Southwest and 2752 has moved from Heritage to Fox Valley this month

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

6384 now operates out of East Dundee Outstation (it was at River)

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

1 minute ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

6384 now operates out of East Dundee Outstation (it was at River)

6381 also operates out of EDO now (former southwest unit)

[rotjohns]

On 5/12/2023 at 9:42 AM, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

6384 now operates out of East Dundee Outstation (it was at River)

Looks like 6381 has been out of SW since 4/27.  Interestingly, Pace has not yet updated their PDF schedule of lost and found, it's currently still showing River for the early 600 routes.  

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, rotjohns said:

Looks like 6381 has been out of SW since 4/27.  Interestingly, Pace has not yet updated their PDF schedule of lost and found, it's currently still showing River for the early 600 routes.  

Both Elgin and East Dundee are River Division. Route 600 has (847) 931-6745,  while 541 has (847) 931-6750. Someone else said 931-6745 is at the Elgin TC, and with VoIP, phone numbers mean nothing (i..e. (847) 364-PACE is assigned to Elk Grove, which would be correct for HQ, but Customer Service is at South Holland).

606 has 931-6745, effective Nov 10, 2022, so maybe that explains the transfers, but maybe not.

In any event, 6384 and 6388 were on 600 this morning. Used to be that the only ones at EDO were 6377-8.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

6 hours ago, rotjohns said:

Looks like 6381 has been out of SW since 4/27.  Interestingly, Pace has not yet updated their PDF schedule of lost and found, it's currently still showing River for the early 600 routes.  

sorry typo I meant Southwest not River

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

Both Elgin and East Dundee are River Division. Route 600 has (847) 931-6745,  while 541 has (847) 931-6750. Someone else said 931-6745 is at the Elgin TC, and with VoIP, phone numbers mean nothing (i..e. (847) 364-PACE is assigned to Elk Grove, which would be correct for HQ, but Customer Service is at South Holland).

606 has 931-6745, effective Nov 10, 2022, so maybe that explains the transfers, but maybe not.

In any event, 6384 and 6388 were on 600 this morning. Used to be that the only ones at EDO were 6377-8.

6386/6387 were also from East Dundee Outstation too

[rotjohns]

On 5/15/2023 at 6:39 PM, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

6386/6387 were also from East Dundee Outstation too

2750 is now on the 715.

[RJL6000]

On 5/15/2023 at 6:39 PM, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

6386/6387 were also from East Dundee Outstation too

With that, and with only route 626 remaining of the North Shore express/shuttle bug routes, NS no longer has any highway edition Eldo's. All 15 of the first group of highway Eldo's are now at either River or its East Dundee Outstation division.

And SW never really had any use for 6381, especially since its only express route, 895, is now gone. 6381 had joined all of the other highway edition Eldo's at East Dundee. River should now only have 6379, 6380, 6382, 6383, 6385, 6389, 6390 and 6391. These may also be moved to East Dundee in the coming weeks, resulting in River only having 30-footers (both the old 2600s and the new 22300s). And with 606 being River's only real use for the highway edition Eldo's, and with ridership being way down from its peak pre-pandemic levels, River's runs on that route can be operated entirely with 30-footers. (NW never used any 30-footers on its share of runs on the 606, IIRC.)

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

6338 has been out of service from west divison for months, earlier this afternoon it came back into service on the 381, so 6338 is now owned by southwest.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

Last summer 2659 moved from North shore to River depots

[busfan2847]

55 minutes ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Last summer 2659 moved from North shore to River depots

2658 and 2659 were first used by River on 4th Aug 22 according to maths22 bustracker

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

34 minutes ago, busfan2847 said:

2658 and 2659 were first used by River on 4th Aug 22 according to maths22 bustracker

Also many units from River have not run since March or April and could be retired because the 22300s entered service

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, busfan2847 said:

2658 and 2659 were first used by River on 4th Aug 22 according to maths22 bustracker

Looks like the only 2600s left at NS are 2655, 2656 and 2657 (if that). I saw one of them in Wilmette within the past month.

Apparently, spending a good proportion of their lives in the cage at Lake-Cook left enough for River to run them out. I still wonder where the ones assigned to First Student are.

As previously noted, it looks like Elgin's and MV's in the range of 2702-2741 have had it, but maybe the former NS ones must last until the electrics arrive.

 

[busfan2847]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Looks like the only 2600s left at NS are 2655, 2656 and 2657 (if that). I saw one of them in Wilmette within the past month.

Apparently, spending a good proportion of their lives in the cage at Lake-Cook left enough for River to run them out. I still wonder where the ones assigned to First Student are.

As previously noted, it looks like Elgin's and MV's in the range of 2702-2741 have had it, but maybe the former NS ones must last until the electrics arrive.

 

2655 was last tracked out on 5/12. The other two have been out this month.

2670 is now with MV Batavia (since 6/2022), 2674 with River (12/2022), 2693 was with Heritage by 12/2021 but seems to have been withdrawn in 7/2022. The rest of the First Student Naperville buses have not been operated since Spring 2020.

2702, 2714, 2716, 2725, 2739 are still in service at River, 2704-6 have been, and still are Fox Valley buses,

MV Batavia seems to have had there buses (2727-2735) replaced by primarily ex-Heritage buses 2697, 2698, 2744, 2745, 2747, 2750. Also used 2807, 2808 (both since withdrawn) and 2812 from the buses they got from First Student (Westmont) in 8/2014 with the 661-665 routes which were based at MV Romeoville.

2797 and 2801, which are both with Northwest, are the only other FS-Westmont buses in service.

The only 2600s that have been in service on bustracker since 1/2023 are:

Niles: 2601, 2640-2649

Fox Valley: 2621, 2627, 2675-2677, 2688(wn), 2700, 2701, 2704-2706, 2752, 2761, 2766

Highland Park: 2631-2634, 2636-2639

River: 2651-2654, 2658, 2659, 2674, 2702, 2714, 2716, 2725, 2739

        withdrawn 2-4/2023 - 2707, 2709-2712, 2715, 2717, 2720, 2722, 2723, 2724, 2726, 2737, 2738, 2740, 2742

North Shore: 2655-2657

McHenry: 2661, 2662 (not on bustracker, assume they are in service?)

MV Batavia: 2670, 2697, 2698, 2744, 2745, 2747, 2750, 2812

       withdrawn 3-4/2023 - 2727, 2728, 2730, 2732, 2808

Heritage: 2743, 2751, 2752 > FV 4/23, 2753 > SW 4/23, 2754 > SW 4/23, 2756 > SW 4/23, 2759 > SW 4/23, 2761 > FV 6/23, 2762, 2764

       withdrawn 3/2023 - 2748

Southwest: 2753, 2754, 2756, 2759, 2786, 2787, 2791, 2792, 2815, 2816, 2818, 2819, 2821, 2823-2825

       withdrawn 2-3/2023 - 2785, 2789

Northwest: 2769-2772, 2774-2777, 2779, 2781-2784, 2797, 2801

 

[rotjohns]

3 minutes ago, busfan2847 said:

MV Batavia seems to have had there buses (2727-2735) replaced by primarily ex-Heritage buses 2697, 2698, 2744, 2745, 2747, 2750. Also used 2807, 2808 (both since withdrawn) and 2812 from the buses they got from First Student (Westmont) in 8/2014 with the 661-665 routes which were based at MV Romeoville.

 

 

Don't forget 12402 from Dekalb is at MV Batavia, it's not on the tracker.  Based on physical sightings, it looks like MV is rotating these buses around daily to keep the older buses fresh.  

[busfan2847]

11 minutes ago, rotjohns said:

Don't forget 12402 from Dekalb is at MV Batavia, it's not on the tracker.  Based on physical sightings, it looks like MV is rotating these buses around daily to keep the older buses fresh.  

Yes it is there but is not a 2600.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

6 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

2655 was last tracked out on 5/12. The other two have been out this month.

2670 is now with MV Batavia (since 6/2022), 2674 with River (12/2022), 2693 was with Heritage by 12/2021 but seems to have been withdrawn in 7/2022. The rest of the First Student Naperville buses have not been operated since Spring 2020.

2702, 2714, 2716, 2725, 2739 are still in service at River, 2704-6 have been, and still are Fox Valley buses,

MV Batavia seems to have had there buses (2727-2735) replaced by primarily ex-Heritage buses 2697, 2698, 2744, 2745, 2747, 2750. Also used 2807, 2808 (both since withdrawn) and 2812 from the buses they got from First Student (Westmont) in 8/2014 with the 661-665 routes which were based at MV Romeoville.

2797 and 2801, which are both with Northwest, are the only other FS-Westmont buses in service.

The only 2600s that have been in service on bustracker since 1/2023 are:

Niles: 2601, 2640-2649

Fox Valley: 2621, 2627, 2675-2677, 2688(wn), 2700, 2701, 2704-2706, 2752, 2761, 2766

Highland Park: 2631-2634, 2636-2639

River: 2651-2654, 2658, 2659, 2674, 2702, 2714, 2716, 2725, 2739

        withdrawn 2-4/2023 - 2707, 2709-2712, 2715, 2717, 2720, 2722, 2723, 2724, 2726, 2737, 2738, 2740, 2742

North Shore: 2655-2657

McHenry: 2661, 2662 (not on bustracker, assume they are in service?)

MV Batavia: 2670, 2697, 2698, 2744, 2745, 2747, 2750, 2812

       withdrawn 3-4/2023 - 2727, 2728, 2730, 2732, 2808

Heritage: 2743, 2751, 2752 > FV 4/23, 2753 > SW 4/23, 2754 > SW 4/23, 2756 > SW 4/23, 2759 > SW 4/23, 2761 > FV 6/23, 2762, 2764

       withdrawn 3/2023 - 2748

Southwest: 2753, 2754, 2756, 2759, 2786, 2787, 2791, 2792, 2815, 2816, 2818, 2819, 2821, 2823-2825

       withdrawn 2-3/2023 - 2785, 2789

Northwest: 2769-2772, 2774-2777, 2779, 2781-2784, 2797, 2801

 

2696 is from River but hasn't run since Spring

[busfan2847]

12 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

2696 is from River but hasn't run since Spring

Missed that one. Not out since 4/14.

[Busjack]

On 6/27/2023 at 2:16 PM, busfan2847 said:

McHenry: 2661, 2662 (not on bustracker, assume they are in service?)

Interesting, they showed up on the tracker at HP:

[rotjohns]

On 10/16/2023 at 8:55 PM, Busjack said:

Interesting, they showed up on the tracker at HP:

Are routes 806, 807, and 808 in service?  They're not reflecting on the tracker.