600-series Proterra BE40/ZX5 - Updates

[BusHunter]

So I got it down to this 4 proterras were at 77th 11/18/19 but 2 were seen on the 16th at 77th, 2 seem to still be at chicago but was one of them the demo. So it sounds like the delivery date would be the date above for at least the last 4 (#602-#605) like I say a wip. All of that is around page 8

[busfan2847]

20 hours ago, Policeman said:

I got the in service part

600s (Proterra's/ZX5's) dates that were put into service 

600 - 3/26/21
601 - 5/14/21
602 - 3/23/21
603 - 3/XX/21
604 - 4/16/21
605 - 4/2/21
606 - 2/4/22
607 - 2/12/22
608 - 2/4/22

 

I don't know when 603 was put into service but it was either in March 2021 or April 2021

I have 3/25/21 for 603

[busfan2847]

20 hours ago, BusHunter said:

So I got it down to this 4 proterras were at 77th 11/18/19 but 2 were seen on the 16th at 77th, 2 seem to still be at chicago but was one of them the demo. So it sounds like the delivery date would be the date above for at least the last 4 (#602-#605) like I say a wip. All of that is around page 8

I had written down 600/1 10/19, 602-4 11/19 and 605 1/20 from what was reported on this site.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, busfan2847 said:

I had written down 600/1 10/19, 602-4 11/19 and 605 1/20 from what was reported on this site.

Yes Andre had said the last of the 6 buses came in Jan 2020. You know that throws off my assessment of what was going on in Nov 19 (4 buses at SS, 2 at chicago, even though that is correct, but I cant count the demo. Thats where Im off). What seems to make the most sense is what was at chicago was not all the order, but some of it, the demo and the pilot, 600. Then in the week of 11/19, comes #601-#604 with #605 in Jan 2020. So you seem to be close with the dates, I beg to differ on #600 though wasn't it around before 10/19? 

In more news maybe I forgot this #606-#608 are all pilot buses to the second model. That's why #609 is not out yet. When they get past the 2nd pilot we move on but only to the balance of what will be on the #66. There will no doubt be a test phase on the #63. Now they could just put all the buses on the #66 until then. Don't know their intentions but it would look better than new buses collecting dust at SS.

[YoungBusLover]

4 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Yes Andre had said the last of the 6 buses came in Jan 2020. You know that throws off my assessment of what was going on in Nov 19 (4 buses at SS, 2 at chicago, even though that is correct, but I cant count the demo. Thats where Im off). What seems to make the most sense is what was at chicago was not all the order, but some of it, the demo and the pilot, 600. Then in the week of 11/19, comes #601-#604 with #605 in Jan 2020. So you seem to be close with the dates, I beg to differ on #600 though wasn't it around before 10/19? 

In more news maybe I forgot this #606-#608 are all pilot buses to the second model. That's why #609 is not out yet. When they get past the 2nd pilot we move on but only to the balance of what will be on the #66. There will no doubt be a test phase on the #63. Now they could just put all the buses on the #66 until then. Don't know their intentions but it would look better than new buses collecting dust at SS.

If possible can someone confirm that this license plate is still on the current #600.

[Policeman]

27 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

If possible can someone confirm that this license plate is still on the current #600.

Yep, it's still the same

[rl12383]

Counted 5 Proterra's on the 66-Chicago route this morning (600, 604, 606, 607, 608). More than i have seen on any one day. 

 

 

[BusHunter]

Don't know whats up with the #600s. CTA hasn't ran any yet this month. I saw #602 at SS with another 600 bus that was one of the first model ones. 

[Busjack]

57 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Well I would hope SS is not starting a museum exhibit for electric buses, but we really don't know do we???

What we do know is the buses barely run. About the only less run bus they have ran is the Ballard #5900's but they were experimental too. I guess experimental does mean not obligated to run in service. Let's just say that!! 

No, we don't know that. The terms of the CMAQ grant were that the buses were to go into service to replace year 2002 buses, thus eliminating a certain quantity of emissions.

If you have actual evidence of fraud, send it to the DOT Inspector General, instead of wasting your precious time posting.

[BusHunter]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

No, we don't know that. The terms of the CMAQ grant were that the buses were to go into service to replace year 2002 buses, thus eliminating a certain quantity of emissions.

If you have actual evidence of fraud, send it to the DOT Inspector General, instead of wasting your precious time posting.

Yes we do and newsflash counselor, there is only a handful more 2002 buses to replace, so I guess they can start that museum. (Best part is the 2002s don't all run on one day)

CTA is slowly getting deeper and deeper in water, because it is storing a bus that is aging plus its not ordering buses fast enough to replace much of anything. 100 clean diesels a year is not really going to do much for a fleet of 1800. They will end the order with buses that are 20 years old still. 

It's time for me to do what I should have done long ago. I can finally get some peace and quiet. Hallelujah!!!!

[Busjack]

8 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Yes we do and newsflash counselor, there is only a handful more 2002 buses to replace, so I guess they can start that museum. (Best part is the 2002s don't all run on one day)

CTA is slowly getting deeper and deeper in water, because it is storing a bus that is aging plus its not ordering buses fast enough to replace much of anything. 100 clean diesels a year is not really going to do much for a fleet of 1800. They will end the order with buses that are 20 years old still. 

It's time for me to do what I should have done long ago. I can finally get some peace and quiet. Hallelujah!!!!

That may all be the case, and things don't always go as planned, but, again, if I had evidence of fraud, I would report it. For instance, when people posted here pictures of 700 having been burned, I forwarded the link to the transportation writer at the Tribune, but as far as CTA and the Tribune were concerned, it never happened.

Unless you have the OFFICIAL roster ( @andrethebusmanprobably does; you don't), you don't know if buses in the yard are officially retired.

[Busjack]

On 5/19/2022 at 6:07 PM, BusHunter said:

This might be the secret that is not coming out concerning the Proterras. Here is a rather hair raising article explaining what's wrong with the brand new Septa proterras. Remember how I've been harping on older Proterras well these are issues with new ones. I didn't like hearing before they were the lightest frame on a heavier bus. Seems there is something to it. 

https://whyy.org/articles/septas-cracking-battery-buses-raise-questions-about-the-future-of-electric-transit/

 

On 5/19/2022 at 7:02 PM, Busjack said:

Would it be too difficult to post in the correct topic? On a matter that was discussed there?

The article is like 10 months old.

Here's a more measured response:

@NewFlyerMCI reported this article on July 15, 2021 (post). So, it is not a secret.

The problem sounds similar to the problems with the Grumman Flxibles around 1979--the structure was designed too thin in an effort to save weight. MTA and RTA (before Pace) pulled them immediately when MTA discovered the problem. MTA got rid of the buses, and RTA inspected them before putting them back into service.

Similarly, when CTA confirmed problems with the NABIs, it pulled them for inspection, and based on that inspection kept them out of service. It did not leave them on the street; and people on this forum disclosed that CTA was in the process of pulling them even before making the action public.

Dorval Carter, who then was the Acting President, is still around. Yet, despite the article not being a secret to anyone but @BusHunter, why are about 6 of them still in service?

Besides that, there are 2 rebuilt New Flyers, which have not seen service since rebuilt, although they are wrapped with advertisements and should be ready to go, and have standard New Flyer chassis.

Despite @BusHunter's apparent need for instant gratification, it seems like Melinda Metzger's explanation before the Pace board is more logical--they have to get the kinks out of the system before going whole hog--and there is other prep work and training to be done.

 

 

[Busjack]

Thanks to @Tcmetro for steering us to the RTAMS PMO site; we see for this project:

Purchase up to 70 Electric Buses and up to nine Charging Stations On Schedule

PROJECT DETAI

Description:

Purchase up to 70 Electric Buses and up to nine Chargers
- Bus funding provides for a future order of up to 70 40-foot battery-powered, zero-emission, all-electric, fully accessible, public transit buses with en-route charging capabilities. CTA will retire up to 70 1000-Series New Flyer buses that are over 14 years old. Turnkey project to procure Electric buses and associated charging infrastructure.

...

Budget Status

On Budget

Schedule Status

On Schedule

Start Date

Jun 2018

End Date

Mar 2022

^Total Project Budget is the project budget being tracked by the RTA PMO Group

Current Status

The charging stations were received and installed and reached substantial completion in January 2021. The six pilot buses continue to perform well in service. For the base order production build for 14 units, 10 completed required components before being able to be placed in service. The other 4 are ongoing with hopes to have all 14 of the buses go into service into Q2-2022.

Last Updated 04.22.2022

[YoungBusLover]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

Thanks to @Tcmetro for steering us to the RTAMS PMO site; we see for this project:

Purchase up to 70 Electric Buses and up to nine Charging Stations On Schedule

PROJECT DETAI

Description:

Purchase up to 70 Electric Buses and up to nine Chargers
- Bus funding provides for a future order of up to 70 40-foot battery-powered, zero-emission, all-electric, fully accessible, public transit buses with en-route charging capabilities. CTA will retire up to 70 1000-Series New Flyer buses that are over 14 years old. Turnkey project to procure Electric buses and associated charging infrastructure.

...

Budget Status

On Budget

Schedule Status

On Schedule

Start Date

Jun 2018

End Date

Mar 2022

^Total Project Budget is the project budget being tracked by the RTA PMO Group

Current Status

The charging stations were received and installed and reached substantial completion in January 2021. The six pilot buses continue to perform well in service. For the base order production build for 14 units, 10 completed required components before being able to be placed in service. The other 4 are ongoing with hopes to have all 14 of the buses go into service into Q2-2022.

Last Updated 04.22.2022

70 #1000s by the end of this year? I hope I'm understanding that correctly. 

[Tcmetro]

IIRC, they've only purchased 23 but the contract allows for up to 70. I suppose if they like the Proterras, they'll buy more.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, YoungBusLover said:

70 #1000s by the end of this year? I hope I'm understanding that correctly. 

It's not this year. It only might indicate how many options remain. See more below.

1 hour ago, Tcmetro said:

IIRC, they've only purchased 23 but the contract allows for up to 70. I suppose if they like the Proterras, they'll buy more.

The original title of this thread, as reflected in the first post, was "up to 45" electric buses. So, I don't know how this report got to "up to 70."

The only things CTA announced on the Proterra contract were 20 from the CMAQ grant and (belatedly) 3 out of the Volkswagen settlement money. Then there's that the CMAQ grant was to replace 2002 buses, while this said 1000 series buses. I'll let others speculate over the inconsistencies.

Update: Since the only official action is the Board's ordinances, there are Ord. 018-53, for up to 45 buses, with an initial purchase of 20, and Ord. 022-032, a change order for 3 more buses.

The only reason I cited this (like @Tcmetrocited it for the 7000s) is to get some sort of official explanation of the status of the buses not yet on the street.

 

[Bus1883]

On 5/23/2022 at 2:25 PM, Tcmetro said:

IIRC, they've only purchased 23 but the contract allows for up to 70. I suppose if they like the Proterras, they'll buy more.

What I find is that, the first 100 #8350’s are going to retire the remaining #6400’s if I correct maybe a few #1000’s as well.

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

3 hours ago, Bus1883 said:

What I find is that, the first 100 #8350’s are going to retire the remaining #6400’s if I correct maybe a few #1000’s as well.

your correct the 1st 100 #8350’s are slicing the 6400’s flyers have about 5-6yrs left maybe less maybe more

[Busjack]

8 hours ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

your correct the 1st 100 #8350’s are slicing the 6400’s flyers have about 5-6yrs left maybe less maybe more

NFs were delivered from  2006 to 2009, so all are overdue for replacement, even on CTA's 14 year guideline. Only constraint is that the current contract is for 600 buses, so CTA will have to figure out what to do with the other 400.

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

NFs were delivered from  2006 to 2009, so all are overdue for replacement, even on CTA's 14 year guideline. Only constraint is that the current contract is for 600 buses, so CTA will have to figure out what to do with the other 400.

they gon have to figure out what to do with the 1000’s and 4000’s both are reaching their age

[Bus1883]

3 hours ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

they gon have to figure out what to do with the 1000’s and 4000’s both are reaching their age

Before they do what they are trying to figure out to do with the NFs focus on the #6400’s first CTA lol 

[artthouwill]

43 minutes ago, Bus1883 said:

Before they do what they are trying to figure out to do with the NFs focus on the #6400’s first CTA lol 

I think CTA will need to keep the 6400s for police deployment 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I think CTA will need to keep the 6400s for police deployment 

That's not CTA's problem. If the city wants junk, it can buy it. I'm still sure there's the FTA requirement to sell retired buses (it was stated at a Pace  board meeting that they couldn't just give buses to municipalities).

[artthouwill]

12 minutes ago, Busjack said:

That's not CTA's problem. If the city wants junk, it can buy it. I'm still sure there's the FTA requirement to sell retired buses (it was stated at a Pace  board meeting that they couldn't just give buses to municipalities).

Summer is unofficially here and the 6400s aren't retired yet.  I wasn't advocating giving them away or selling them am.  It was more of a get prepared for CTA to use its drivers and those buses in a similar manner like 2 years ago when some drivers here were complaining about being used for police service instead of transit service.  Since LL has this curfew for teens in place, I expect defiance moreover than compliance.   She's going to need the National Guard here very soon.  I'm going to start looking to book a trip out of town 

[BusHunter]

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I think CTA will need to keep the 6400s for police deployment 

Or for cooling buses. The other Novas couldn't cool a snowball and the Proterras would probably run out of power before too long!!!