What to Do With Surplus Artics

[YoungBusLover]

3 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Yeah that just translates to "lemme hurry and beat this guy" here in Chicago

Most definitely. A race to sit at the next light.  😂😂😂😂

[Shannon tahoeppv]

9 hours ago, strictures said:

California did a pilot program several years ago, that's apparently ended.  They passed a law & allowed the transit agencies to put a giant left turn arrow on the rear of the buses, that when that arrow was activated, all traffic that was going to be in the same lane as the bus leaving the bus stop,l had to wait until, the bus was back in the traffic lane.  Do it here, as we have few streets with more than one traffic lane in each direction & drivers refuse to let the buses in & then they must wait, delaying the buses.

I don't know why they ended it.

I be bullying my way in screw them cars

[Al Mac]

On 5/26/2018 at 11:42 PM, Anthony Devera said:

I had been looking through the "More Bus Moves" topic, and there was a discussion about what to do about the surplus of articulated buses. CTA tried them on several local routes but saw that reliability got worse. I do not completely understand why artics work on some local routes, such as the 22 and 151, but not others, such as the 66 and 79. For a while the 4000 series DE60LF will be under rehab, so the surplus artics can fill in for those, but there should be something else to be done with the artics afterward. Below I have thought of a few possible solutions.

*This would require a garage re-assignment. Also, Ashland and Western now have TSP, and I am not sure if the artics are designed for that.

1. Continue testing the artics on other local routes and see which routes are not drastically affected. Possible routes: 8, 9*, 15, 36, 49*, 53, 124

2. Use the artics on peak-only express routes that currently do not use artics. Possible routes: 2, X9*, 28 (to Downtown), X49*, the Union/Ogilvie downtown expresses

3. Use the artics during times when the streets are less congested, such as on weekends and at night. However, during these times the ridership would probably be lower, so it would not make much sense for an articulated bus to have a load that a regular bus could easily take.

4. Use the artics on Pace routes, mainly the downtown expresses. The main problem with this is that Pace garages are not designed for artics, so Pace would have to borrow a CTA garage or upgrade its own facilities.

5. Sell all the non-hybrid artics (D60LFR)

CTA definitely so look over this because some routes do need artics, but at rush hour time and when buses are bunched frequently. 79th, the 4 express, 9 Ashland express, etc. Also some streets artics shouldn’t run on like #2 pm going down 60th street then turning at dorchester..nope! 

[jtrussel]

The artics would be good if cta can make western a BRT route but that may never happen

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, jtrussel said:

The artics would be good if cta can make western a BRT route but that may never happen

They are already running X49, which seems adequate. A;so the point of artics is crush loads, not speed.

This also sounds like the Ashland BRT, which turned out only a way for consultants to spend a $5 million grant. Although the Western Corridor Study, Western wasn't considered.

[jtrussel]

6 hours ago, Busjack said:

They are already running X49, which seems adequate. A;so the point of artics is crush loads, not speed.

This also sounds like the Ashland BRT, which turned out only a way for consultants to spend a $5 million grant. Although the Western Corridor Study, Western wasn't considered.

I see what you mean with x49. Just looking at other cities with BRT artics are usually used for the most part but I still think Western would be a good candidate 

 

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, jtrussel said:

I see what you mean with x49. Just looking at other cities with BRT artics are usually used for the most part bufts that could t I still think Western would be a good candidate 

 

The other essential problem for both 9 and 49, which came up with the lift replacement project, was that 74th was not built with lifts for artics, so it was assumed that another garage would need to be built. Could have been Fisk garage, but a data center was built there. The lifts at FG were rebuilt, but there wasn't room for 60 ft lifts there, so the school runs are out of NP.

So, since there really isn't an excess of artics (because 2/3rds are rusted), you would need 25 buses (per @maths22's tracker at 3:00 p.m.) at about $50 million, plus a garage (I assume near old Archer) at $100 million, plus whatever street improvements. And I didn't charge $5 million for this consultation.

[renardo870]

2 minutes ago, Busjack said:

The other essential problem for both 9 and 49, which came up with the lift replacement project, was that 74th was not built with lifts for artics, so it was assumed that another garage would need to be built. Could have been Fisk garage, but a data center was built there. The lifts at FG were rebuilt, but there wasn't room for 60 ft lifts there, so the school runs are out of NP.

So, since there really isn't an excess of artics (because 2/3rds are rusted), you would need 25 buses (per @maths22's tracker at 3:00 p.m.) at about $50 million, plus a garage (I assume near old Archer) at $100 million, plus whatever street improvements. And I didn't charge $5 million for this consultation.

So, how much would it cost to retrofit 74th Garage with lifts for artics? And can they build out 74th for additional bus capacity? That may a bit cheaper than building a new garage, for now at least.

[Busjack]

8 minutes ago, renardo870 said:

So, how much would it cost to retrofit 74th Garage with lifts for artics? And can they build out 74th for additional bus capacity? That may a bit cheaper than building a new garage, for now at least.

I don't know. but if you look up the lift project, 74th wasn't even considered, and it doesn't look like it has enough yard space to enlarge the building. Anyway, it appears that the "new garage," for electrification or other purposes, needs to be closer to downtown.

[renardo870]

51 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I don't know. but if you look up the lift project, 74th wasn't even considered, and it doesn't look like it has enough yard space to enlarge the building. Anyway, it appears that the "new garage," for electrification or other purposes, needs to be closer to downtown.

I agree with the new garage needs to be closer to downtown. Fisk would have been ideal but that's off the table.

I wonder if the Metra/BNSF would be willing to sell some land area around 14th and Canal to CTA as it would save some deadhead miles for some routes, as some routes go back to their home garage during rush hours.

Fulton District seems really limited with all of the new construction in that area.

An unlikely area would be the area around the former Michael Reese or that trucking area.

[Adam Hubbard]

No new garage is expected down the road at all, CTA Will stick to the seven existing garages without any new modernizations or adding and new locations. Maybe CTA will build a Midway, New Archer Garage or any other garage locations, too much gas wasted, and longer deadheads has gotten worse after the Feb. 2010 cuts.

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Adam Hubbard said:

No new garage is expected down the road at all, CTA Will stick to the seven existing garages without any new modernizations or adding and new locations. Maybe CTA will build a Midway, New Archer Garage or any other garage locations, too much gas wasted, and longer deadheads has gotten worse after the Feb. 2010 cuts.

You obviously didn't read the electrification plan (especially when you said "too much gas wasted." I suggest you do so.

[Busjack]

Since basically the ideas posted now are the same as in 2018, I compared 2018 and 2024 annual ridership reports for average weekday ridership:

2018
49  15,724
X49  6,403 

2024
49  12,164
X19  4,731

In short, a reduction from about 22,000 to 17,000 or 22%, so no current urgency.

[EasyMoney]

On 6/21/2025 at 11:59 PM, Al Mac said:

CTA definitely so look over this because some routes do need artics, but at rush hour time and when buses are bunched frequently. 79th, the 4 express, 9 Ashland express, etc. Also some streets artics shouldn’t run on like #2 pm going down 60th street then turning at dorchester..nope! 

Cant use Artics On 36 From Broadway/Addison To Broadway/Diversity Street To Narrow Can Cause Accident  

[jajuan]

On 6/24/2025 at 11:45 PM, EasyMoney said:

Cant use Artics On 36 From Broadway/Addison To Broadway/Diversity Street To Narrow Can Cause Accident  

And yet NP manages to get artics running on the 22 everyday with Clark Street just as narrow for most of its length as the stretch of Broadway you're speaking about. The available driving space on stretch of Clark between Irving Park and Montrose is even narrower due to the protected bike lanes that were put in back in 2023.

[EasyMoney]

8 hours ago, jajuan said:

And yet NP manages to get artics running on the 22 everyday with Clark Street just as narrow for most of its length as the stretch of Broadway you're speaking about. The available driving space on stretch of Clark between Irving Park and Montrose is even narrower due to the protected bike lanes that were put in back in 2023.

Yeah but Clark is a straight shot for the most part 💯 broadway got too many turns think about division&state that turn right there I see why they don’t put artics on 36

[jajuan]

14 hours ago, EasyMoney said:

Yeah but Clark is a straight shot for the most part 💯 broadway got too many turns think about division&state that turn right there I see why they don’t put artics on 36

The number of turns are not that much different than the number of turns seen on the 146 or 147. The tightness of those turns is no different than those on 146 and 147. CTA artics have the turn radius of a 30 foot bus. And though it's extremely rare, NP has sent artics along the 36 before. You're still kind of pulling at straws here. 

[EasyMoney]

12 hours ago, jajuan said:

The number of turns are not that much different than the number of turns seen on the 146 or 147. The tightness of those turns is no different than those on 146 and 147. CTA artics have the turn radius of a 30 foot bus. And though it's extremely rare, NP has sent artics along the 36 before. You're still kind of pulling at straws here. 

I Work out of north park im just telling you what they tell me i been here for a year never seen a artic on the 36

[artthouwill]

18 hours ago, jajuan said:

The number of turns are not that much different than the number of turns seen on the 146 or 147. The tightness of those turns is no different than those on 146 and 147. CTA artics have the turn radius of a 30 foot bus. And though it's extremely rare, NP has sent artics along the 36 before. You're still kind of pulling at straws here. 

I don't think the issue is turns.  More than likely the issue is efficiency.   The heaviest portion of the 36 is south of Diversey.  It is a supplement to the 22 which his the heavier route.  Therefore 40ft buses make more sense on the 36 because north of Diversey only requires a 40'.  The only way an artic makes the 36 is either a trip is part of a block run on an artic route, or a situation where a bus is needed and the immediate available bus is an artic.

@EasyMoney the width of the artics don't ilprohibit the use of artics on Broadway.  The street is NOT too narrow.  

[Mr.NewFlyer1279]

9 hours ago, EasyMoney said:

I Work out of north park im just telling you what they tell me i been here for a year never seen a artic on the 36

there’s been artics on 36 before on a rare evening occasion 

#4140 was the recent artic to run on the 36 5/23/25 

[renardo870]

On 7/2/2025 at 10:47 AM, Mr.NewFlyer1279 said:

there’s been artics on 36 before on a rare evening occasion 

#4140 was the recent artic to run on the 36 5/23/25 

Yes, this is true. I have seen one as late as 0030 going NB towards Clark/Devon on at least 2 occasions. 

[sht6131]

8 hours ago, renardo870 said:

Yes, this is true. I have seen one as late as 0030 going NB towards Clark/Devon on at least 2 occasions. 

I have another question for a Kedzie driver regarding artics assigned to Kedzie garage. Why are artics assigned to 12 and 21 on weekends. This has been happening for the past couple of years. Just

curious.

8 hours ago, renardo870 said:

Yes, this is true. I have seen one as late as 0030 going NB towards Clark/Devon on at least 2 occasions.