Metra taking over UP operations?

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, strictures said:

What freight service on the UP-N Line?  There's a few cars a day out of the North Ave. yard & some service to Abbott in North Chicago, but nothing in between anymore.  Both S&C Electric & Tempel Steel no longer have sidings into their properties.  That's it from Clybourn to North Chicago.

Another reason UP wants out of the passenger service.  In effect,  they are operating 2 lines as exclusive passenger services.   The UP-W passenger service disrupts their frei8operations.  Ive seen 3 long UP freight trains back to back to back sitting on the middle track between River Forest and the west side of Chicago so Metra trains can whiz by.  Freight trains along that stretch are mostly nonexistent during weekdays rush periods, though Wednesday i saw an outbound freight on the inbound track around 6pm.  I think it was pulling into the Melrose Park yard.

I think some progress could be made if UP could unbundle the three lines.  If UP would be willing to cede the N and NW lines and trackage to Metra,  maybe Up can sign one more purchase of service agreement with Metra with the expressed intent for Metra to take over operations of the West line at the expiration of that agreement.   It should also include trackage fees that Metra would have to pay UP once Metra takes over the W operations. 

[trainman8119]

10 hours ago, strictures said:

What freight service on the UP-N Line?  There's a few cars a day out of the North Ave. yard & some service to Abbott in North Chicago, but nothing in between anymore.  Both S&C Electric & Tempel Steel no longer have sidings into their properties.  That's it from Clybourn to North Chicago.

UP-N has plenty of freight north of Lake Bluff. This is the link between Chicago (Proviso) and Milwaukee and a fair amount of service to and from Minnesota. And don't forget the coal trains that serve Waukegan and Oak Creek. The UPNW is pretty much commuter only especially since GM Janesville shut down. There is some freight there, but not much. 

[strictures]

6 hours ago, trainman8119 said:

UP-N has plenty of freight north of Lake Bluff. This is the link between Chicago (Proviso) and Milwaukee and a fair amount of service to and from Minnesota. And don't forget the coal trains that serve Waukegan and Oak Creek. The UPNW is pretty much commuter only especially since GM Janesville shut down. There is some freight there, but not much. 

There won't be any coal trains in five years, probably even sooner than that.  And the tracks from Kenosha to Milwaukee are not in great shape, since the C&NW ended passenger service in 1971 & Amtrak decided to go with the Milwaukee Road out of Union Station.  Plus the crazies in Glenview have prevented a third passing track there.

[BusHunter]

A Up nw train stopped last night as I was crossing in Norwood park, so I decided to count the passengers cause it had just turned dark, it was the evening around 730 or 8 o'clock. Would you believe I only counted one passenger. That's the problem you have more personnel than passengers. I was eyeing the entry door for the passengers. It opened but I saw no conductor. That was kind of curious. Wonder if they have a way to open the doors automatically. Maybe the guy was just inside the entrance, I dont know, but I thought they are supposed to check for stragglers. Cause someone could get run over, just for safety's sake. 

[twyztdmynd]

Union Pacific gets green light to cut services on three busy Chicago commuter rail lines

https://www.courthousenews.com/federal-court-gives-union-pacific-green-light-to-cut-its-services-on-three-busy-chicago-commuter-rail-lines/amp/

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, twyztdmynd said:

Union Pacific gets green light to cut services on three busy Chicago commuter rail lines

https://www.courthousenews.com/federal-court-gives-union-pacific-green-light-to-cut-its-services-on-three-busy-chicago-commuter-rail-lines/amp/

The most important part: "Despite this, spokespeople from both the Regional Transportation Authority and Union Pacific said they are committed to keeping those three lines operational for riders. Union Pacific said it would still maintain the physical tracks and provide rail dispatch, but with Alonso’s blessing, its employees would no longer operate the rail cars or collect tickets."

I've always been of the opinion that this is should be the new arrangement, and part of Metra's resistance is probably due to employee shortage and training concerns

[MRChiCity]

I have a feeling Metra will appeal this ruling. 

[Smolensk]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 

I've always been of the opinion that this is should be the new arrangement, and part of Metra's resistance is probably due to employee shortage and training concerns

Won't there be a bunch of former UP employees looking for new jobs?

Will UP reassign them to freight operations?  Do they really need that many new freight train conductors?

Will someone who has spent the last 20 years collecting fares on passenger trains really be eager to take on a new job coupling freight cars in a rail yard?

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, Smolensk said:

Won't there be a bunch of former UP employees looking for new jobs?

Will UP reassign them to freight operations?  Do they really need that many new freight train conductors?

Will someone who has spent the last 20 years collecting fares on passenger trains really be eager to take on a new job coupling freight cars in a rail yard?

• Probably not
• Probably and yes
• We can only speculate, but I don't anyone who's worked public-facing jobs and enjoyed the public-facing part of it. However, I don't really know that many people who'd be the age of someone being a conductor on the train, so

[Sam92]

14 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

• Probably not
• Probably and yes
• We can only speculate, but I don't anyone who's worked public-facing jobs and enjoyed the public-facing part of it. However, I don't really know that many people who'd be the age of someone being a conductor on the train, so

 

4 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The most important part: "Despite this, spokespeople from both the Regional Transportation Authority and Union Pacific said they are committed to keeping those three lines operational for riders. Union Pacific said it would still maintain the physical tracks and provide rail dispatch, but with Alonso’s blessing, its employees would no longer operate the rail cars or collect tickets."

I've always been of the opinion that this is should be the new arrangement, and part of Metra's resistance is probably due to employee shortage and training concerns

 

5 hours ago, twyztdmynd said:

Union Pacific gets green light to cut services on three busy Chicago commuter rail lines

https://www.courthousenews.com/federal-court-gives-union-pacific-green-light-to-cut-its-services-on-three-busy-chicago-commuter-rail-lines/amp/

So what is UP saying? “You can still use our tracks but you have to drive your own trains?”  So pretty much how the rock island and Milwaukee district lines do? 

[artthouwill]

11 hours ago, Sam92 said:

 

 

So what is UP saying? “You can still use our tracks but you have to drive your own trains?”  So pretty much how the rock island and Milwaukee district lines do? 

Yes.  This is what they've always wanted.  I'm sure Metra's issue was how to integrate these UP employees.  UP employee most likely are unionized.  Do they have to take pay cuts to work for Metra?  Would Metra possibly have to increase pay for employees of other lines if UP employees were paid more?  Would Metra employees have opportunities to switch to UP lines?  How is seniority affected?  I think Metra needed to figure these things out before agreeing to take over the UP lines.

On UP"s end, do they engineers have the option to remain with the railroad?  Would UP layoff their Metra employees with the understanding that Metra would hire them?  How does seniority work?

[strictures]

On 10/17/2020 at 10:59 AM, BusHunter said:

A Up nw train stopped last night as I was crossing in Norwood park, so I decided to count the passengers cause it had just turned dark, it was the evening around 730 or 8 o'clock. Would you believe I only counted one passenger. That's the problem you have more personnel than passengers. I was eyeing the entry door for the passengers. It opened but I saw no conductor. That was kind of curious. Wonder if they have a way to open the doors automatically. Maybe the guy was just inside the entrance, I dont know, but I thought they are supposed to check for stragglers. Cause someone could get run over, just for safety's sake. 

One conductor opens all the doors.  The controls for the door opening are: Left, Center [some cars say local], Right.  About 2 weeks ago, I got off a UP-N train at Rogers Park & I was the only one that got off.  The pandemic has crippled public transit of all kinds.  The parking lots at the stations are empty, so both the suburban villages & the CTA are losing a small fortune for the last 18 months.

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Yes.  This is what they've always wanted.  I'm sure Metra's issue was how to integrate these UP employees.  UP employee most likely are unionized.  Do they have to take pay cuts to work for Metra?  Would Metra possibly have to increase pay for employees of other lines if UP employees were paid more?  Would Metra employees have opportunities to switch to UP lines?  How is seniority affected?  I think Metra needed to figure these things out before agreeing to take over the UP lines.

On UP"s end, do they engineers have the option to remain with the railroad?  Would UP layoff their Metra employees with the understanding that Metra would hire them?  How does seniority work?

Engineers would probably remain with the railroad. Before Bombardier took over, CSX used to operate two of the MARC lines (Brunswick & Camden) since they ran over those tracks. I spoke to one one time around 2009 or so, where he basically told me he was offered the position, took it since he wouldn't have to travel as far like he usually did and would go back to operating freight trains once the contract was up (2010 is when MARC switched I believe). IIRC he said there was an exam he was gonna have to take again, but he would otherwise have his old job.

The Penn line uses Amtrak engineers, so I have to imagine those workers are rotated out fairly frequently. More than once we had Amtrak conductors on the Penn line instead of MARC employees.

Would the UP conductors stay in that job tho? I feel like UP would reassign them and Metra bring in their own employees?

[NewFlyerMCI]

14 hours ago, Sam92 said:

 

 

So what is UP saying? “You can still use our tracks but you have to drive your own trains?”  So pretty much how the rock island and Milwaukee district lines do? 

Isn't the ME the only line where Metra owns all the tracks? I know Metra owns up to Blue Island on the RI

[artthouwill]

12 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Engineers would probably remain with the railroad. Before Bombardier took over, CSX used to operate two of the MARC lines (Brunswick & Camden) since they ran over those tracks. I spoke to one one time around 2009 or so, where he basically told me he was offered the position, took it since he wouldn't have to travel as far like he usually did and would go back to operating freight trains once the contract was up (2010 is when MARC switched I believe). IIRC he said there was an exam he was gonna have to take again, but he would otherwise have his old job.

The Penn line uses Amtrak engineers, so I have to imagine those workers are rotated out fairly frequently. More than once we had Amtrak conductors on the Penn line instead of MARC employees.

Would the UP conductors stay in that job tho? I feel like UP would reassign them and Metra bring in their own employees?

I suppose some conductors would remain with UP.  If possible,  some might try to catch on with Metra.   The RR positions could be subject to availability and seniority.  Also, does Metra have enough employees on other lines to fill the IP operations?  

[Sam92]

18 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Isn't the ME the only line where Metra owns all the tracks? I know Metra owns up to Blue Island on the RI

Milwaukee district? Or are they like RI where it’s metra crews but someone else’s tracks

[NewFlyerMCI]

14 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Milwaukee district? Or are they like RI where it’s metra crews but someone else’s tracks

The lines where both the tracks and trains are operated by the freight company are UP-N, UP-NW, UP-W & BNSF

The lines where the majority of the tracks are freight-owned, but Metra operates the trains are the HC (CN), NCS (CN after River Grove), SWS (NS after 74th & Loomis) & MD-W (CP). The host railroads dispatch trains while on their tracks ofc.

The lines where the tracks are majority or wholly owned by Metra are the ME, MDW (CN after Rondout) & RI (CSX) south of Blue Island.

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by NewFlyerMCI
Switched Metra for Amtrak lol

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The lines where both the tracks and trains are operated by the freight company are UP-N, UP-NW, UP-W & BNSF

The lines where the majority of the tracks are freight-owned, but Metra operates the trains are the HC (CN), NCS (CN after River Grove), SWS (NS after 74th & Loomis) & MD-W (CP). The host railroads dispatch trains while on their tracks ofc.

The lines where the tracks are majority or wholly owned by Amtrak are the ME, MDW (CN after Rondout) & RI (CSX) south of Blue Island.

 

Metra actually owns the ME tracks that operate the commuter service and CN owns and operates the adjacent freight tracks.  Amtrak only owns the electric trackage on its Northeast Corridor.  Amtrak doesn't own any other tracks other than tracks at or near any Union Stations it may own.

[strictures]

43 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Metra actually owns the ME tracks that operate the commuter service and CN owns and operates the adjacent freight tracks.  Amtrak only owns the electric trackage on its Northeast Corridor.  Amtrak doesn't own any other tracks other than tracks at or near any Union Stations it may own.

Amtrak own the Chicago Union Station Company [CUSCO] & that includes the tracks & yards south to about 16th St & the north leads to at least Canal St.  The Pennsy used to own the North tracks west to where the passenger coach yards were & they called that the Panhandle Division, but I don't know if CUSCO owns that.

[NewFlyerMCI]

6 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Metra actually owns the ME tracks that operate the commuter service and CN owns and operates the adjacent freight tracks.  Amtrak only owns the electric trackage on its Northeast Corridor.  Amtrak doesn't own any other tracks other than tracks at or near any Union Stations it may own.

I said Amtrak and I totally meant Metra lol

[trainman8119]

On 9/25/2021 at 1:04 PM, NewFlyerMCI said:

On 9/25/2021 at 10:16 AM, artthouwill said:

On UP"s end, do they engineers have the option to remain with the railroad?  Would UP layoff their Metra employees with the understanding that Metra would hire them?  How does seniority work? 2009 or so, where he basically told me he was offered the position, took it since he wouldn't have to travel as far like he usually did and would go back to operating freight trains once the contract was up (2010 is when MARC switched I believe). IIRC he said there was an exam he was gonna have to take again, but he would otherwise have his old job.

The UP is hiring, so I am sure there will be enough to keep everyone on who wants to stay with no problem.

Most crews who work suburban service, especially extra board, don’t particularly care for it. The lose a lot of money on their miles travelled when put on a commuter job. I am sure there are many who are ecstatic this may finally happen !

It is believed that any UP personnel would keep their seniority on the UP Lines with any Metra personnel placed below them should they choose to work there. Conversely, any UP personnel who would want to work a Metra line would fall underneath in seniority.

Generally, over the years, BN and UP crews made less on their assignments than Metra crew have. One of the many reason they don’t care to work passenger trains. My guess, and it’s only a guess, is that Metra will keep them exactly where they are at in accordance with their Union contracts….however, Metra Labor Relations suck right now, so who knows what will ultimately happen there.

I don’t think the Metra brass really knows what they are getting into here. The added labor, costs, etc. They claim they are short handed now (I don’t know why other than they goofed with the buyouts last year) but I don’t necessarily buy into that. If they think all the UP people are going to run to Metra, they really should think again. Metra doesn’t have the credibility they once had in the industry and it is known they aren’t exactly treating their employees all that great. The recent raise the board gave to the CEO while all contracts in all crafts are being negotiated in a hard ball attitude certainly isn’t helping.

It’ll be interesting to watch what happens.

[NewFlyerMCI]

More than anything, I'll miss that brief period where the UP Lines were effectively free during COVID. I saw far more of the region because of that than I ever would've otherwise lol

[MRChiCity]

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/metra-asks-court-to-revisit-ruling-on-up-dispute/?fbclid=IwAR3vvryxeZ7_PEQwMJjim02fL56mTwRxPGx-ZAOUvfvYCHZoGjvI7AAfOME Metra is appealing 

[Railguy]

Has anyone heard of any recent updates on their spat?  Have they kissed and made up or in divorce court?

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, Railguy said:

Has anyone heard of any recent updates on their spat?  Have they kissed and made up or in divorce court?

I haven't seen anything new and nothing suggests they've kissed and made up.  For whatever reason Metra wants to continue with Purchase of Service agreements, but UP wants Metra to operate its own trains and take on the UP employees who operate the Metra service.   UP won the court case last year that said it was not a common carrier,  thus not requires to operate the commuter service with no contract in place.  Metra sought a review of the case, coting flaws in the process and the ruling.  No updates since October 2021.  UP is still operating the 3 commuter lines.