8350-series Nova LFS - Updates

[Bus1883]

1 hour ago, NovaHater said:

I have a quick question guy’s, did the CTA exercise the option for the full order of 600? I haven’t had a chance to go back through the thread. 

From what I remember the order is still at 600 buses we are just getting 100 for now

[NovaHater]

20 minutes ago, Bus1883 said:

From what I remember the order is still at 600 buses we are just getting 100 for now

I really hope the CTA and Newflyer can reach a deal a majority fleet of Nova’s scares me. 

[YoungBusLover]

7 minutes ago, NovaHater said:

I really hope the CTA and Newflyer can reach a deal a majority fleet of Nova’s scares me. 

That contract has already been set in stone with NovaBus.

[NovaHater]

8 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

That contract has already been set in stone with NovaBus.

But the key word is “option”for an additional 500. So my question is have they exercised the option?

[Bus1883]

42 minutes ago, NovaHater said:

I really hope the CTA and Newflyer can reach a deal a majority fleet of Nova’s scares me. 

Yeah having 75% of the fleet mostly all Novas will definitely freak me out. I remember before the #7900’s came in the #6400’s use to be the only Novas while we had New Flyers, NABIs, Flxibles and Optimas ?

[artthouwill]

43 minutes ago, NovaHater said:

But the key word is “option”for an additional 500. So my question is have they exercised the option?

Not yet, but they have time.  If, for some reason,  CTA decides not to exercise the options, it would have to put out a new RFP and start the process over.  The only way New Flyer can get in is to either win that bid, or something horrible has to be wrong with these 8350s which would force CTA to take them out of service.   Since these buses were purchased using federal funds, there's a process CRA would have to follow.  Rge NABI artics fiasco is a good example,  however,  I don't think federal funds were used to obtain (lease, not purchase) the New Flyer artics. 

[Tcmetro]

Each option on the Nova order is for 100 buses. They've already exercised the first option, we should be getting 100 more Novas in late 2022 or early 2023. There's still 400 more buses they can order in the contract and I think it's very likely that they will be ordered.

[NovaHater]

4 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

Each option on the Nova order is for 100 buses. They've already exercised the first option, we should be getting 100 more Novas in late 2022 or early 2023. There's still 400 more buses they can order in the contract and I think it's very likely that they will be ordered.

Man I hope that the Bus Gods shine down on the CTA and change the minds of the “none operating leadership” that awards contracts with out at the least entertaining the opinions of the front line workers. 

[artthouwill]

27 minutes ago, NovaHater said:

Man I hope that the Bus Gods shine down on the CTA and change the minds of the “none operating leadership” that awards contracts with out at the least entertaining the opinions of the front line workers. 

If the buses are purchased with federal funds,  then CTA (and all transit agencies ) is required to provide a competitive bidding process and award the contracts to the lowest bidder.  Like it or not,  NovaBus has been the lowest bidder for the last two contracts.    New Flyer got lucky and won one Pace bid (20400 series) but lost the last bid to ENC.

Perhaps New Flyer can win a vid for artics if/when CTA puts out an RFP for some. 

[Ghoul]

8369 and 8398 are now at FG 

 

[Policeman]

1 hour ago, Ghoul said:

8369 and 8398 are now at FG 

 

8369 was sent at FG on 8/2

[Javi75]

Would all these Novas be classified under one series as the 7900s, 7900-8849? Seeing NP routes with majority Novas going to hit different lol.

[artthouwill]

26 minutes ago, Javi75 said:

Would all these Novas be classified under one series as the 7900s, 7900-8849? Seeing NP routes with majority Novas going to hit different lol.

Technically the 8325s are part of the 7900s series.  They were the last option for that order.  I guess we call them 8325z because, unlike the other 7900s, they don't have rear windows and they dont have hopper windows.

The 8350are a separate series.

[Busjack]

7 hours ago, Javi75 said:

Would all these Novas be classified under one series as the 7900s, 7900-8849? Seeing NP routes with majority Novas going to hit different lol.

 

6 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Technically the 8325s are part of the 7900s series.  They were the last option for that order.  I guess we call them 8325z because, unlike the other 7900s, they don't have rear windows and they dont have hopper windows.

The 8350are a separate series.

The last isn't obvious. 8350+ are a separate contract, but there were mentions of 1000s being replaced by 7900s.

The last thing I remember that was this confusing  was 9800 and 1600 Flyers.

[Busjack]

On 8/8/2022 at 2:10 PM, NovaHater said:

But the key word is “option”for an additional 500. So my question is have they exercised the option?

The official answer is that CTA exercised Option 1 for the second 100 buses (ordinance).

[Busjack]

On 8/2/2022 at 10:27 AM, chicagocubs6323 said:

 

I was away from my PC, but now want to commend all of you who photographed 8350s in early action, including @chicagocubs6323's work tracking this bus from Jeff Pk. to Harrison.

[BusHunter]

Just passed #8353 on #152. It's a ghost bus, #1044's leader. 

[Bus1883]

8 hours ago, Javi75 said:

Would all these Novas be classified under one series as the 7900s, 7900-8849? Seeing NP routes with majority Novas going to hit different lol.

The #8350’s are separate it’s not part of the #7900’s. 

[Bus1883]

18 hours ago, Ghoul said:

8369 and 8398 are now at FG 

 

Perhaps when the first 50 is at FG we should already see the remainder of the #6400’s to be all phased out

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

 

The last isn't obvious. 8350+ are a separate contract, but there were mentions of 1000s being replaced by 7900s.

The last thing I remember that was this confusing  was 9800 and 1600 Flyers.

An argument could be made that 8350s are part of the 7900s only because both are made by the same manufacturer.   But the GM Fishbowl 9600 series was not considered the 9000 series even though both were GMs and nearly the same.  

If New Flyer had won the contract,  obviously they would be considered a different series. Even if CTA had started numbering with 8350.  It shouldn't make a difference,  then, that Nova won the last two bids.   It's crazy because the 8350s are like the 8325s that ARE part of the 7900s.

 

[Javi75]

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

An argument could be made that 8350s are part of the 7900s only because both are made by the same manufacturer.   But the GM Fishbowl 9600 series was not considered the 9000 series even though both were GMs and nearly the same.  

If New Flyer had won the contract,  obviously they would be considered a different series. Even if CTA had started numbering with 8350.  It shouldn't make a difference,  then, that Nova won the last two bids.   It's crazy because the 8350s are like the 8325s that ARE part of the 7900s.

 

It just dawned on me it’s like the 5300s and 6000s. I personally would’ve preferred for the entire 7900s and the 8350s to have been NFs. CTA could’ve really flexed like these other transit agencies with NFs. Replacing 1000s with newer versions of NF 40 footers. 

[artthouwill]

7 hours ago, Javi75 said:

It just dawned on me it’s like the 5300s and 6000s. I personally would’ve preferred for the entire 7900s and the 8350s to have been NFs. CTA could’ve really flexed like these other transit agencies with NFs. Replacing 1000s with newer versions of NF 40 footers. 

One difference however is that there was a New Flyer series between the 5300s and the 6000s.  New Flyer had the 5800 series and even 3 buses in a 5900 series. 

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, Javi75 said:

It just dawned on me it’s like the 5300s and 6000s. I personally would’ve preferred for the entire 7900s and the 8350s to have been NFs. CTA could’ve really flexed like these other transit agencies with NFs. Replacing 1000s with newer versions of NF 40 footers. 

No,it isn't the same. The 5300s and 6000s were different models, about 5 years apart, and CTA numerically stuck 5800s and 5900s between them. If you want to make any similar argument, why weren't the DE60LFRs 4208s or the D60LFRs 4400s?

 

And for all you New Flyer wishers, tell us why in two procurements, NF was not the prevailing bidder?

[Javi75]

6 hours ago, Busjack said:

No,it isn't the same. The 5300s and 6000s were different models, about 5 years apart, and CTA numerically stuck 5800s and 5900s between them. If you want to make any similar argument, why weren't the DE60LFRs 4208s or the D60LFRs 4400s?

 

And for all you New Flyer wishers, tell us why in two procurements, NF was not the prevailing bidder?

I meant in the sense that the 5300s and 6000s were different bus series that were similar models with minor differences, not series number wise. Starting a series on a 50 instead of a 100 is definitely out the ordinary. I’ve gotten to use to NF holding majority of the bus fleet especially the idea that there’s the same bus series at every garage on every route. 

[Bus1883]

19 hours ago, Javi75 said:

It just dawned on me it’s like the 5300s and 6000s. I personally would’ve preferred for the entire 7900s and the 8350s to have been NFs. CTA could’ve really flexed like these other transit agencies with NFs. Replacing 1000s with newer versions of NF 40 footers. 

Well you may never know, just because models look a lot similar to one another doesn’t really mean that their part of the same order. I knew soon that CTA would exercised the options for an additional 25 buses to add onto 450 in the #7900s once we’ve received 425 of them. #8325-8349 have part of the 425 bus order for a long time before they came but the #8350s are a complete separate order.