2022 Spring Pick

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 

I've been saying for years that this is an obvious reason to just move at least the 3, but the 4 as well to 95th. It's not like there's no space, and also facilitates west of 95th transfers. One of the reasons I advocated so strongly for a combined 95 was in part because of this 

How would a relief point downtown worked?

Quick story.  Recently i boarded a WB Blue Line train at IMD and sat near a CTA employee.  My guess was that he was a bus operator.  As soon as I sat down we pull off.  His phone rings and he answers.  I assume someone asked him where he was.  He said coming up to Kedzie and then he hung up.  I thought maybe it was a wife, girlfriend,  or family member until the phone rang again.  He stated again he was about at Jedzie. Then he said im about to get off work now.

That shifted my thought process.  I believe a garage supervisor at K was looking for him possibly to do an extra run or relief downtown.   That explains why he claimed he was at Kedzie when we hadn't even reached Western.   Fortunately for him, the train announcement and the slow moving train didn't give him away.

I mentioned this because if a relief driver is coming from a train,  things can get dicey.   Once I waited for 10 minutes for a relief driver at 35th Red Line on an EB 35th bus.  The previous driver got off and proceeded to take a Sb train back to the garage.  I walked to the Green Line ny the time the other driver and the following bus showed up at 35th Green Line.   There really isn't anything around 35th Red Line. 

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Since we're talking reliefs which require the quickest way without using a bus it would have to be 79th 75th or 71st. What you're thinking about works for drivers that are pulling the buses themselves in Instead of reliefs

That's what has me confused. It sort of sounded like "lunch break." If it were "street relief," in the sense of a driver riding from a garage as a passenger to the relief point and then taking over driving a bus (i.e., boarding a 79, getting off at Cottage Grove, and then driving a 4), it doesn't make sense, as either the driver would still have to wait at 79th and Cottage Grove for the next 4 to 71st, or take the Red Line to 69th and then a 71 to Cottage Grove. A pull in is essentially irrelevant, as the driver is relieved of duty at the garage.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

Does this spring pick mean the remaining novas at FG will be officially retired for good?

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Does this spring pick mean the remaining novas at FG will be officially retired for good?

No.

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Does this spring pick mean the remaining novas at FG will be officially retired for good?

 

57 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

No.

Based on the terms of the CMAQ grant (replacing polluting 20 year old buses) probably not until the Proterras go full time, which, in a sense, prolongs the pollution.

[Sam92]

14 hours ago, Busjack said:

That's what has me confused. It sort of sounded like "lunch break." If it were "street relief," in the sense of a driver riding from a garage as a passenger to the relief point and then taking over driving a bus (i.e., boarding a 79, getting off at Cottage Grove, and then driving a 4), it doesn't make sense, as either the driver would still have to wait at 79th and Cottage Grove for the next 4 to 71st, or take the Red Line to 69th and then a 71 to Cottage Grove. A pull in is essentially irrelevant, as the driver is relieved of duty at the garage.

Well considering no one wants to relieve on 79th any more for safety reasons and 75th isn't a good relief option as @YoungBusLoversaid, 71st is the only other thing that would make sense considering 71 is pretty frequent and you also have 30 going to and from the same relief points the extra time is probably worth it to CTA if it means they don't lose any more drivers. Red line hasn't really been hit with gaps as much. Neither has 71 and I noticed the 71 seems to have a bit more recovery time and padding that would keep them on time for the trip east which should make the time and transfer penalty a little less harsh and More worth the safety. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

19 hours ago, Sam92 said:

South shore drive? If we're talking 79th all of those pull in and out from the garage itself. 

I've seen a couple of buses heading east on 76th every so often, so I've assumed they were going to the 79 by default. They're a rarity compared to the amount of buses I've seen heading west though, like a 5:1 ratio

[Sam92]

2 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I've seen a couple of buses heading east on 76th every so often, so I've assumed they were going to the 79 by default. They're a rarity compared to the amount of buses I've seen heading west though, like a 5:1 ratio

You may be on to something cause I see headways decreasing but no note saying some runs start at Wentworth during those times. Just all western or Ford city by that point.

[NewFlyerMCI]

18 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

Just like the old configuration trips from Waveland/Divison will head to Root and reverse back NB. It's only a handful of trips that will do that. Others will start at Randolph and Halsted that will head towards 79th and reverse back NB.

I can understand why I've never seen "8 Halsted to Root" but idk how I've never seen "8 Halsted to Randolph". Bad timing I guess. Still confused as to why Root is picked over the Orange Line?

[Sam92]

Just now, NewFlyerMCI said:

I can understand why I've never seen "8 Halsted to Root" but idk how I've never seen "8 Halsted to Randolph". Bad timing I guess. Still confused as to why Root is picked over the Orange Line?

NB short turns were either Madison or Division. It's a few SB that start at Randolph though if they aren't doing a Division to Root. As far as why root? Youre helping the people that otherwise have to rely on an infrequent 35, 39, or 43 to get to the red line still have an option from that area to some type of train service downtown. On the flip side 67 and 79 cuts every bus at western because people from that far out can take a pulaski or kedzie bus to the Orange Line and get downtown quicker 

[Tcmetro]

There's pretty strong demand from Bridgeport to UIC, which is probably why Root is the short-turn.

Orange Line would also be fine as a short-turn as a ton of UIC students transfer there.

North Branch is a little more puzzling to me. Moving the short-turn to North/Clybourn would help north side Red Line riders get to the West Loop easier. 

[Sam92]

Just now, Tcmetro said:

There's pretty strong demand from Bridgeport to UIC, which is probably why Root is the short-turn.

Orange Line would also be fine as a short-turn as a ton of UIC students transfer there.

North Branch is a little more puzzling to me. Moving the short-turn to North/Clybourn would help north side Red Line riders get to the West Loop easier. 

North branch is next to a storage point.

[NovaHater]

I welcome the return of the short turns at Root. I currently get slammed during the PM rush going southbound between the UIC blue line and 35th Street. Those added runs will definitely helped with overcrowding. I'm not a fan of the Ashland end of the line on 79th. My biggest concern is the pull-in route. The left turn from Racine to 79th will be tight especially with a 4000 if we still have them. People park on that corner illegally 24 hours a day. 

[artthouwill]

19 minutes ago, NovaHater said:

I welcome the return of the short turns at Root. I currently get slammed during the PM rush going southbound between the UIC blue line and 35th Street. Those added runs will definitely helped with overcrowding. I'm not a fan of the Ashland end of the line on 79th. My biggest concern is the pull-in route. The left turn from Racine to 79th will be tight especially with a 4000 if we still have them. People park on that corner illegally 24 hours a day. 

Why wouldn't you just run 76th to Vincennes or Halsted?  I think Vincennes would be better.  Do all pull ins enter the yard from 79th  or is there an entrance alongside the barn on Vincennes?

[YoungBusLover]

2 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

There's pretty strong demand from Bridgeport to UIC, which is probably why Root is the short-turn.

Orange Line would also be fine as a short-turn as a ton of UIC students transfer there.

North Branch is a little more puzzling to me. Moving the short-turn to North/Clybourn would help north side Red Line riders get to the West Loop easier. 

North Branch is where Hickory storage is located for almost all of the runs on Halsted. A handful of those AM runs will start at 79th/Emerald and will terminate at Chicago Ave after the rush period is over, deadhead to North Branch and stage on Hickory until the early PM rush begins. All of the PM runs from Hickory start at Division while reliefs take place until about 3-3:30 PM. A few more runs will terminate at Madison and deadhead to Randolph storage for staging until the PM rush. I've only seen a few runs that terminate at Madison turn into a tripper on the 120/121/125 and then pull in to the garage or Randolph storage. North/Clybourn is still in the system for short turns but it is for emergencies only now and or special events. 

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I can understand why I've never seen "8 Halsted to Root" but idk how I've never seen "8 Halsted to Randolph". Bad timing I guess. Still confused as to why Root is picked over the Orange Line?

Yeah during the pandemic that short turn was discontinued due to ridership but after a two year hiatus it will be making a return. I'm not sure if "8 Halsted to Randolph" exists I know for a fact runs do deadhead from 79th/Emerald to start trips there though. 

 

1 hour ago, NovaHater said:

I welcome the return of the short turns at Root. I currently get slammed during the PM rush going southbound between the UIC blue line and 35th Street. Those added runs will definitely helped with overcrowding. I'm not a fan of the Ashland end of the line on 79th. My biggest concern is the pull-in route. The left turn from Racine to 79th will be tight especially with a 4000 if we still have them. People park on that corner illegally 24 hours a day. 

I know a lot of us will take 76th over to Vincennes that's for damn sure.  

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Why wouldn't you just run 76th to Vincennes or Halsted?  I think Vincennes would be better.  Do all pull ins enter the yard from 79th  or is there an entrance alongside the barn on Vincennes?

Yeah pull-ins enter on the south side of garage near Princeton. I think CTA thinks it'll be easier to take Racine back rather than Vincennes because of the tight turn radius. I'm surprised they didn't try loomis as an option much more room for error when making turns going eastbound.  

[YoungBusLover]

19 hours ago, sht6131 said:

Anybody notice any significate route schedule changes on the North side?

Currently I'm looking into that but I would assume changes are coming. 

[Tcmetro]

48 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

North Branch is where Hickory storage is located for almost all of the runs on Halsted. A handful of those AM runs will start at 79th/Emerald and will terminate at Chicago Ave after the rush period is over, deadhead to North Branch and stage on Hickory until the early PM rush begins. All of the PM runs from Hickory start at Division while reliefs take place until about 3-3:30 PM. A few more runs will terminate at Madison and deadhead to Randolph storage for staging until the PM rush. I've only seen a few runs that terminate at Madison turn into a tripper on the 120/121/125 and then pull in to the garage or Randolph storage. North/Clybourn is still in the system for short turns but it is for emergencies only now and or special events. 

Interesting, I was not aware of that.

Are there any other places (that aren't garages) where buses are staged for rush hour?

I usually see some buses parked on Lower Randolph during the day, which I would assume is another staging point.

[NovaHater]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Why wouldn't you just run 76th to Vincennes or Halsted?  I think Vincennes would be better.  Do all pull ins enter the yard from 79th  or is there an entrance alongside the barn on Vincennes?

We will take Racine because that’s what we’re instructed to do. You never want to get into a situation where you didn’t follow instructions without a good reason. 

[YoungBusLover]

23 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

Interesting, I was not aware of that.

Are there any other places (that aren't garages) where buses are staged for rush hour?

I usually see some buses parked on Lower Randolph during the day, which I would assume is another staging point.

The only one I can think of is probably Navy Pier.

[artthouwill]

21 minutes ago, NovaHater said:

We will take Racine because that’s what we’re instructed to do. You never want to get into a situation where you didn’t follow instructions without a good reason. 

I didn't realize you guys had prescribed deadhead routes.  I remember seeing the old 1 Indiana/Hyde Park deadhead from 63rd and Stony Island.   Very few buses ran 79th between Stony and the garage.   Most ran 75th between Stony and at least Lafayette though some ran 76th   Are pull outs deadheadinf subject to prescribed routes also?  It would seem like garages with routes that use expressways would get more leniency when those expressways become very congested.

[Sam92]

8 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I didn't realize you guys had prescribed deadhead routes.  I remember seeing the old 1 Indiana/Hyde Park deadhead from 63rd and Stony Island.   Very few buses ran 79th between Stony and the garage.   Most ran 75th between Stony and at least Lafayette though some ran 76th   Are pull outs deadheadinf subject to prescribed routes also?  It would seem like garages with routes that use expressways would get more leniency when those expressways become very congested.

I'd imagine it's cause you gotta account for every hour behind the wheel so they do that to keep run times and predictions accurate. Hell they'll grill you if you drive a car to a relief vs use the bus from what a driver told me cause they're paying for and built that into your schedule so they probably look at that as stealing time 

[YoungBusLover]

9 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

I'd imagine it's cause you gotta account for every hour behind the wheel so they do that to keep run times and predictions accurate. Hell they'll grill you if you drive a car to a relief vs use the bus from what a driver told me cause they're paying for and built that into your schedule so they probably look at that as stealing time 

You're correct.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I didn't realize you guys had prescribed deadhead routes.  I remember seeing the old 1 Indiana/Hyde Park deadhead from 63rd and Stony Island.   Very few buses ran 79th between Stony and the garage.   Most ran 75th between Stony and at least Lafayette though some ran 76th   Are pull outs deadheadinf subject to prescribed routes also?  It would seem like garages with routes that use expressways would get more leniency when those expressways become very congested.

 

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

I'd imagine it's cause you gotta account for every hour behind the wheel so they do that to keep run times and predictions accurate. Hell they'll grill you if you drive a car to a relief vs use the bus from what a driver told me cause they're paying for and built that into your schedule so they probably look at that as stealing time GN

There's that (there was the stink about deadheads being counted as service hours), and the city still has the right to regulate use of the streets (i.e. the 'NO BUSES' sign on Jersey north of NP).

[NovaHater]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I didn't realize you guys had prescribed deadhead routes.  I remember seeing the old 1 Indiana/Hyde Park deadhead from 63rd and Stony Island.   Very few buses ran 79th between Stony and the garage.   Most ran 75th between Stony and at least Lafayette though some ran 76th   Are pull outs deadheadinf subject to prescribed routes also?  It would seem like garages with routes that use expressways would get more leniency when those expressways become very congested.

Yeah we’re given deadhead pull in and pull out routes. Along with switch back routes. i.e. running late because of a train or blocked streets due to cpd or cfd.