And the next garage to get New Flyers is...

[BusExpert32]

How could we be up to #1478 already?

Yah! How could #1451 be new and delivered probably a week ago and during one week we jump 27 buses to get to #1478 today.

[rmadisonwi]

Buses aren't always delivered in order.

I don't know the details of the delivery schedule, so this could just be speculation, but there may have been some delays in the deliveries of the 1430s, and then New Flyer got its production line unclogged. Or, maybe there could have been quality control issues at the plant, and buses stacked up waiting for approval for delivery.

Or, there could be something else going on where buses are being finished and delivered out of order.

Or, things could be proceeding normally. I believe I've read somewhere that CTA is supposed to receive up to 10 buses per week from New Flyer. If we're up to the 1470s already, that would be 40-50 buses since the delivery of 1430. Has it been 4-5 weeks since 1430 arrived? I think it probably has.

[sw4400]

Yah! How could #1451 be new and delivered probably a week ago and during one week we jump 27 buses to get to #1478 today.

The numbering is confusing. You think that the lower numbers would be the oldest(i.e 1000-1001) and the higher numbers are the newest(1451-1452). Example....

In this example, all New Flyer orders have been completed, and we see two New Flyers in the 74th St. Garage(#1782 and #1637). We assume, based on the numbers, that 1782 is newer than 1637. Not so, however, as we find out talking to the Garage Supervisor. He/She tells us that 1637 was delivered September 28 and 1782 was delivered September 21.

In the old days(1970's and '80's) the buses came in small groups at a time and in numerical order. Today, anything is possible.

[rmadisonwi]

The numbering is confusing. You think that the lower numbers would be the oldest(i.e 1000-1001) and the higher numbers are the newest(1451-1452). Example....

In this example, all New Flyer orders have been completed, and we see two New Flyers in the 74th St. Garage(#1782 and #1637). We assume, based on the numbers, that 1782 is newer than 1637. Not so, however, as we find out talking to the Garage Supervisor. He/She tells us that 1637 was delivered September 28 and 1782 was delivered September 21.

In the old days(1970's and '80's) the buses came in small groups at a time and in numerical order. Today, anything is possible.

Delivery date is not the same as build date.

The buses are numbered in order, but for various reasons, they may not be delivered in order. Therefore, in your hypothetical example, 1782 would still be newer than 1637, but for some reason, was ready for delivery before 1637. Maybe a manufacturing defect was found in 1637, or maybe it was used as a test bus for a new something-or-other, or was even given to another system as a demonstrator bus.

I guess it all depends on your definition of "newer."

[BusExpert32]

I went through Chicago today to determine if North Park does have that many New Flyers already. From my observations I saw buses #1431, #1455, #1457, #1463, and #1467 operating on North Park routes such as 11 Lincoln, 22 Clark, 36 Broadway, and 151 Sheridan today. Now I do agree that the CTA has recieved bus #1478 yesterday. Also, since I saw #1467 operating on the 11 Lincoln today, it is quite possible that the few New Flyers numbered above that between #1478 are probably still at North Park awaiting to be put into service. But all in all, there were still A LOT of 4400 TMCs running out North Park today, even though it is a Sunday. By the way, does anyone know if any 4400s at North Park have been tranferred anywhere else or scrapped? It seems that as more New Flyers are coming in, the number of 4400s on the street are still the same. And now with North Park having about 30 New Flyers, what has happened to that equal amount of 4400s?

[Buslover88]

I went through Chicago today to determine if North Park does have that many New Flyers already. From my observations I saw buses #1431, #1455, #1457, #1463, and #1467 operating on North Park routes such as 11 Lincoln, 22 Clark, 36 Broadway, and 151 Sheridan today. Now I do agree that the CTA has recieved bus #1478 yesterday.

Then does anybody know where buses #1468-#1477 are?? Some people want to know.

[nflyer22]

I saw #1469 operating as #22 Clark from North Park at around 11:50 AM today at Dearborn and Harrison.

[BusExpert32]

The odd ones (#1469, #1471, #1473, #1475, #1477) are probably at North Park at this point awaiting to be put into service later this week. Same thing goes for the even ones (#1468, #1470, #1472, #1474, #1476, #1478) at 103rd Garage.

[BusExpert32]

I saw #1469 operating as #22 Clark from North Park at around 11:50 AM today at Dearborn and Harrison.

Today was probably #1469's first or second day of service then.

[ArcherRider]

Today I saw NF#1471 run On #22 Clark St at downtown this morning go north.

[nflyer22]

The odd ones (#1469, #1471, #1473, #1475, #1477) are probably at North Park at this point awaiting to be put into service later this week. Same thing goes for the even ones (#1468, #1470, #1472, #1474, #1476, #1478) at 103rd Garage.

Yeah, BusExpert32 is right, so far the odd New Flyers being received are going to North Park, and the evens are going to 103rd.

I saw #1470 from 103rd working as #2 Hyde Park Express at around 7:28 AM this morning at State & Harrison.

P.S. I don't get it, why does North Park and 103rd have to share the current receiving New Flyers? Can't just one garage get it 1st, and the other one be more patient to receive the ones after?

[Buslover88]

I don't get it, why does North Park and 103rd have to share the current receiving New Flyers? Can't just one garage get it 1st, and the other one be more patient to receive the ones after?

That's the same excat thing I think. I don't understand why North Park has to recieve New Flyers right now, they could have waited. 103rd's the garage the really needs them, they need to replace their 5300s and probably a few TMCs and North Park does not have 5300s, so why are they so impatient about getting the New Flyers? They already have a small group of former 77th New Flyers anyway. That's all I have to say...

UPDATE: Yesterday when walking past routes #22 Clark and #36 Broadway to and from Deming/Clark, I saw buses #1451, #1437, #1453 and #1463.

[BusExpert32]

This is what I have to say about North Park's New Flyers. North Park probably has around 33 to 36 New Flyers (including 1200s from 77th) at this point and a couple awaiting to be put into service. While on the other hand, 103rd has about 25 New Flyers at this point (North Park has 11 more from 77th). I have seen and taken a picture of buses #1431, #1451, and #1455 (please visit www.ctabuses.bravehost.com to see them). I have yet to see 103rd's New Flyers, but I will try to spot and take pictures of a few in downtown and the south side on this upcoming weekend.

[trainman8119]

I don't understand why North Park has to recieve New Flyers right now, they could have waited. 103rd's the garage the really needs them, they need to replace their 5300s and probably a few TMCs and North Park does not have 5300s, so why are they so impatient about getting the New Flyers?

What you fail to realize is that the 5300 Flxibles and the 4400 TMC's are the same age and are basically in the same condition. I will contend that the 4400's at North Park in in worse shape. In any case, the series of buses are the same age, arrived at about the same time, and would be subject to replacement at the same time.

[BusExpert32]

What you fail to realize is that the 5300 Flxibles and the 4400 TMC's are the same age and are basically in the same condition. I will contend that the 4400's at North Park in in worse shape. In any case, the series of buses are the same age, arrived at about the same time, and would be subject to replacement at the same time.

And you also have to realize that the 150 Flxible 5300s still remaining on the roster are the ones that are in the best shape from the original number of over 450 5300s about 2 years ago. But the 4400s have not yet been numbered down to the best in shape remaining. I remember about two years ago when the CTA still had their 5300 fleet intact, most of the 5300s had really dirty wheels and a literaly destroyed exterior. Some of them would barely move on the streets. But the 5300s remaining now are really good, clean buses.

[Busjack]

You also have to consider that the 4400s got the life extending rehabs, and the 5300s didn't.

[sw4400]

You also have to consider that the 4400s got the life extending rehabs, and the 5300s didn't.

But that was 6 years ago, and like the 5300-Series, many of the 4400's and 4500's are now showing their age. Some of these buses you have to literally floor to make them go fast. A lot of these buses are marked P.O.S, Bad Bus, Slow Bus, or Very Slow. Not to mention some of the front doors have to be opened by the customer, as they won't open on their own anymore. And many of the TMC's are doing a M.A.N imitation(paper signs replacing the Flip-Dots).

[trainman8119]

And many of the TMC's are doing a M.A.N imitation(paper signs replacing the Flip-Dots).

Not to mention New Flyers, NABI's and just about any CTA bus running.

[jajuan]

I saw 1483 on 151 Sheridan Tuesday night.

[BusExpert32]

Ok Ok we know now that North Park has around 40 New Flyers (1000) at his point (counting those 11 from 77th). And we also know that 103rd has around 25 New Flyers. But does anyone know what the CTA is doing with the equivelant amount of 4400s at North Park as New Flyers (about 40 so far). And which buses are getting replaced first at 103rd, 5300s or 4400s? Or are they mixing both series together in this retirement process at 103rd? And there have been no sightings of any 4400s getting scrapped recently, so where are they storing them? I know that North Park has a lot of storage space outdoors, but what about 103rd and their shorter storage?

[rmadisonwi]

Just because nobody has posted anything on this forum in the past week about 4400s being scrapped doesn't mean it isn't happening. I'm sure I've mentioned somewhere or another on this forum that 4400s and 5300s are being scrapped at about equal rates. In fact, there are some weeks where far more 4400s get sent to "area 300" (basically, the South Shops dead line) than 5300s.

About 65 TMCs have bit the dust since the beginning of the year. I don't know offhand how many 5300s were on the roster in January, but there are 141 left (45 at Chicago, 36 at Kedzie, 60 at 103rd).

North Park's TMC count has dropped by roughly 20 since the start of the 1430s. Their fleet has grown slightly, but that's simply because North Park was really struggling to put a full complement of service out there. The addition of about 30 new buses, plus improved maintenance on the old ones (and, perhaps also, the recent change in upper management at the garage), has improved service reliability out of that garage within the past month or so.

Long story short, they basically junk whatever is in the worst shape. Doesn't matter if the first digit on the bus is a 4 or a 5.

I don't know how long North Park and 103rd are going to continue receiving new buses. It could be until both garages are completely rid of the 1991s, which, if we were to assume a 1:1 replacement (and a continued delivery of 10 buses per week, or 5 per week per garage), it would be next March or April before they stop getting new ones. On the other hand, 77th, Kedzie, and Chicago all still had some old stuff left after their new deliveries stopped, so the plan could be to get both garages down to maybe 60-70 old buses each. In that case, new deliveries would stop around the end of the year or early next year.

I also don't know (it may have been posted somewhere, but I don't feel like looking for it) if the next couple of options (i.e. buses beyond 1629) are going to flow continuously, or if there will be a gap in deliveries (as there was between 1429 and 1430).

But you could also see a big fleet redistribution some time next year, as some service currently operated by North Park could very easily wind up running out of other garages (provided that CTA receives the funding needed to continue operating that service). Then, it's anyone's guess whether North Park would give up TMCs, 1000s, Optimas, or maybe even their 5800s.

[BusExpert32]

Just because nobody has posted anything on this forum in the past week about 4400s being scrapped doesn't mean it isn't happening. I'm sure I've mentioned somewhere or another on this forum that 4400s and 5300s are being scrapped at about equal rates. In fact, there are some weeks where far more 4400s get sent to "area 300" (basically, the South Shops dead line) than 5300s.

About 65 TMCs have bit the dust since the beginning of the year. I don't know offhand how many 5300s were on the roster in January, but there are 141 left (45 at Chicago, 36 at Kedzie, 60 at 103rd).

North Park's TMC count has dropped by roughly 20 since the start of the 1430s. Their fleet has grown slightly, but that's simply because North Park was really struggling to put a full complement of service out there. The addition of about 30 new buses, plus improved maintenance on the old ones (and, perhaps also, the recent change in upper management at the garage), has improved service reliability out of that garage within the past month or so.

Long story short, they basically junk whatever is in the worst shape. Doesn't matter if the first digit on the bus is a 4 or a 5.

I don't know how long North Park and 103rd are going to continue receiving new buses. It could be until both garages are completely rid of the 1991s, which, if we were to assume a 1:1 replacement (and a continued delivery of 10 buses per week, or 5 per week per garage), it would be next March or April before they stop getting new ones. On the other hand, 77th, Kedzie, and Chicago all still had some old stuff left after their new deliveries stopped, so the plan could be to get both garages down to maybe 60-70 old buses each. In that case, new deliveries would stop around the end of the year or early next year.

I also don't know (it may have been posted somewhere, but I don't feel like looking for it) if the next couple of options (i.e. buses beyond 1629) are going to flow continuously, or if there will be a gap in deliveries (as there was between 1429 and 1430).

But you could also see a big fleet redistribution some time next year, as some service currently operated by North Park could very easily wind up running out of other garages (provided that CTA receives the funding needed to continue operating that service). Then, it's anyone's guess whether North Park would give up TMCs, 1000s, Optimas, or maybe even their 5800s.

A lot of good news here. It's good that there are still 141 5300s Flxibles, I thought at this time last year that at this time this year there won't be any 5300s at all, but of course then in April that three track supplementation started. Still about 415 4400s then out thre, great! A couple of new and stunning facts really went into my head here. The CTA will stop sending New Flyers to North Park and 103rd when they reach down to about 60-70 old buses. Now that is good news. And the other exciting news about North Park giving up some of its buses in a few months to other garages -let's say such as Forest Glen or Chicago- will be great as well. There may be 4400s running out of those two garages, unbelievable.

[Buslover88]

A lot of good news here. It's good that there are still 141 5300s Flxibles, I thought at this time last year that at this time this year there won't be any 5300s at all, but of course then in April that three track supplementation started. Still about 415 4400s then out thre, great! A couple of new and stunning facts really went into my head here. The CTA will stop sending New Flyers to North Park and 103rd when they reach down to about 60-70 old buses. Now that is good news. And the other exciting news about North Park giving up some of its buses in a few months to other garages -let's say such as Forest Glen or Chicago- will be great as well. There may be 4400s running out of those two garages, unbelievable.

There is some good news and bad news here. The good news is that there'll still be TMCs around and them coming back to CHICAGO and FOREST GLEN! I'm so excited! It's been 7 long years since i've ridden a TMC on #76 and i've missed them very much.

The bad news is that the Fixibles will still be here, no offense. I mean, I love them and they were the very first buses I rode on, but they really need to be retired now. They've had 16-17 years of faithful service and now they need to go bye-bye. What is going to happen if all of them start breaking down and there isn't enough buses to replace them on the street? Then what? I'm really worried about this now. Will there be anymore new buses going to 77th and Kedzie after 74th recieves the New Flyers? There needs to be buses that COMPLETEY replace the Fixibles. The TMCS could wait another 2 or 3 years.

Also, if there should be Fixibles (1991) left after all the New Flyers are here, then Chicago should recieve the New Flyers (1995), TMCs or Fixibles (1995) because it wouldn't really be fair if they recieved new buses AGAIN

[rmadisonwi]

The CTA will stop sending New Flyers to North Park and 103rd when they reach down to about 60-70 old buses. Now that is good news.

I didn't say that. I said they could get new buses until all the old ones are gone, or until there are 60-70 left. Neither is certain, since I don't have info on what the intention is.

There is some good news and bad news here. The good news is that there'll still be TMCs around and them coming back to CHICAGO and FOREST GLEN! I'm so excited! It's been 7 long years since i've ridden a TMC on #76 and i've missed them very much.

I definitely didn't say that. While I don't know what will happen with North Park's deliveries, I can 99% guarantee that you will not see any TMCs transferred to Chicago or Forest Glen (or Archer, for that matter).

The bad news is that the Fixibles will still be here, no offense. I mean, I love them and they were the very first buses I rode on, but they really need to be retired now. They've had 16-17 years of faithful service and now they need to go bye-bye. What is going to happen if all of them start breaking down and there isn't enough buses to replace them on the street? Then what? I'm really worried about this now. Will there be anymore new buses going to 77th and Kedzie after 74th recieves the New Flyers? There needs to be buses that COMPLETEY replace the Fixibles. The TMCS could wait another 2 or 3 years.p

Well, everything you've said about the Flxibles is also true for the TMCs. That's why both fleets are being retired simultaneously (how many times do I have to say this?).

[Buslover88]

I didn't say that. I said they could get new buses until all the old ones are gone, or until there are 60-70 left. Neither is certain, since I don't have info on what the intention is.

I definitely didn't say that. While I don't know what will happen with North Park's deliveries, I can 99% guarantee that you will not see any TMCs transferred to Chicago or Forest Glen (or Archer, for that matter).

Well, everything you've said about the Flxibles is also true for the TMCs. That's why both fleets are being retired simultaneously (how many times do I have to say this?).

Then someone here told a lie. I don't know who did, but i'm sure there is a liar somewhere around here. Anyway, rmadisonwi, I have to apologize to you because I didn't read on your last post (the one before BusExpert32's) where it said:

I don't know how long North Park and 103rd are going to continue receiving new buses. It could be until both garages are completely rid of the 1991s

For now on, I am going to believe everything rmadisonwi says since he works for the CTA.

I have a question. Is anybody sure that 74th will definately get new buses? I'm starting to doubt that.