6627 on the 77 Belmont today

[Buslover88]

6667 is now on the property, it arrived approximately 0815 this morning with a servicer

That's a Chicago garage bus.

[BusExpert32]

That's a Chicago garage bus.

Well, now #6667 is a Forest Glen bus.

[nflyer22]

I had a thought that was shared by someone else's post about possible shortages at Archer. Just what is Archer getting in return, between past loans to 77th and 103rd for rush hour express runs and the recent sighting of so many Novas popping at Forest Glen? Through all this I've only still been seeing the same Novas and its Flyers operating when passing Western and California on my daily work commute.

Yeah, I agree, I ride the 62 Archer to/from school everyday and these past 2 weeks or so I'm seeing the same N. Flyers (1111, 1025, 1120, etc., just to name a few) practically everyday.

This may be really off topic, but I saw a 5800 New Flyer, really sure, going northbound on Archer sometime last June/July. I didn't bring this up seeing that it wouldn't be too interesting or not many people would believe it. But, I saw it!

[sw4400]

The act of bus transferring is going on. Archer has all ready lost two Hybrids and numerous Novas. As we can recall, 77th was also handing out New Flyers and Novas to Chicago and North Park, but now they're begging for more buses, and are getting the 4400s from 103rd as a result.

With 'Doomsday' still looming, these moves might be in lieu of Jan. 20th, when 81 bus routes are eliminated and possibly some garages closed. With a shortage of bus operators then, the CTA probably green lighted major transfers of buses to garages that'll be staying open after Jan. 20th, while we still have the staff to help move all these vehicles throughout town.

[BusHunter]

With 'Doomsday' still looming, these moves might be in lieu of Jan. 20th, when 81 bus routes are eliminated and possibly some garages closed. With a shortage of bus operators then, the CTA probably green lighted major transfers of buses to garages that'll be staying open after Jan. 20th, while we still have the staff to help move all these vehicles throughout town.

But Forest Glen is one of the closed garages (barring a settlement) why would they be gaining buses? I would think they'd be losing them. Here's a thought: Could Forest Glen be receiving buses to help with BusTracker? #6667 is a BusTracker bus could it be that some training is being done with live equipment that is hooked into BusTracker. I've noticed all of Forest Glen's #6000's have a black box strapped under the first forward facing double seat on the left of it's buses. so It might be preparing for Bustracker along with other garages. I know 77th is the next garage to go online with this program but Forest Glen could be following a couple of months behind. (just an opinion not official)

[BusExpert32]

With 'Doomsday' still looming, these moves might be in lieu of Jan. 20th, when 81 bus routes are eliminated and possibly some garages closed. With a shortage of bus operators then, the CTA probably green lighted major transfers of buses to garages that'll be staying open after Jan. 20th, while we still have the staff to help move all these vehicles throughout town.

I'll have to disagree. Doomsday is looming, but will be over and done within the next few days. Also, Forest Glen is/was on the garage closing list, so no, it can't be recieving extra buses.

The transfers from Archer would also not have anything to do with Bustracker because Archer has yet to recieve Bustracker.

This type of transferring is inconclusive and is quite impossible to figure out without the inside info.

[nflyer22]

Probably depends where. It could have been going to or from Bus & Truck at 31st & Pulaski for work. I previously mentioned that I saw one in Glen Ellyn, presumably going to a DDA place out that way.

I was at Cermak and Princeton when I saw this. I was crossing the street, and it came and stopped on Archer at a red light. Once it turned green, it just kept going north on Archer.

[BusExpert32]

I'll have to disagree. Doomsday is looming, but will be over and done within the next few days. Also, Forest Glen is/was on the garage closing list, so no, it can't be recieving extra buses.

The transfers from Archer would also not have anything to do with Bustracker because Archer has yet to recieve Bustracker.

This type of transferring is inconclusive and is quite impossible to figure out without the inside info.

Ok, I've finally come to a conclusion. The Novas that are coming into Forest Glen are to fill in the service gaps that the few 6700s ran before they were sent to 77th. It's the most basic idea that I could've come up with.

[rmadisonwi]

Here's a thought: Could Forest Glen be receiving buses to help with BusTracker? #6667 is a BusTracker bus could it be that some training is being done with live equipment that is hooked into BusTracker. I've noticed all of Forest Glen's #6000's have a black box strapped under the first forward facing double seat on the left of it's buses. so It might be preparing for Bustracker along with other garages. I know 77th is the next garage to go online with this program but Forest Glen could be following a couple of months behind. (just an opinion not official)

Most (perhaps all? I don't know) of Forest Glen's buses already have the Bus Tracker equipment installed and operational (internal use only, thus far).

[BusHunter]

Most (perhaps all? I don't know) of Forest Glen's buses already have the Bus Tracker equipment installed and operational (internal use only, thus far).

I'm pretty sure that all of Forest Glen's buses are equipped with BusTracker. (the #6000's since late December) Like you say, I agree that there most likely is testing being done internally. Who seems to be really lagging behind is 74th. I see no existence of any black boxes on their buses, but we all know that they always get new equipment last. Maybe they are taking a smarter approach and are waiting for there share of the #1000's.

[wordguy]

The buses assigned to 74th have started receiving the bar-coded plates mounted next to the front door if that's any indication.

[Guest]

Yesterday on the way home from the firehouse I spotted Nova #6623 on 85 Central.

[BusHunter]

Well it seems that there has been a bit of a bus transfer over the last few days between Forest Glen and 103rd. About two or three days ago I saw #6107 on #152. I didn't give it too much thought. ( previously #6107 was at the Glen until it's mid life rehab when it was given to 103rd strangely enough after the rehab around December) Now yesterday I seen #6105 on the #152 Addison (in fact it picked me up) Now I also saw #524 and #522 running back to back on the #173 last night, a 103rd garage route. So 103rd has at least 25 Optima's now. I wonder why so many? Also I wonder if North Park is losing it's remaining Optima's to Forest Glen for three track part 2. Could this be a part of rmadisonwi's tease in which he said in referring to the #11 Lincoln route. "soon they will be all 40 footers" ? BTW, I looked for the heck of it #6105 doesn't have the black box for BusTracker on it. So Forest Glen must be ahead of them for BusTracker.

[BusExpert32]

Also I wonder if North Park is losing it's remaining Optima's to Forest Glen for three track part 2.

North Park is losing its Optimas. #533 and #534 are both at Forest Glen as of two months ago, so there go two, but I'm not sure if anymore have been transferred.

And here's a photo of #533 at Jefferson Park on January 12, 2008.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/73/533yr1.jpg

[Busjack]

North Park is losing its Optimas. #533 and #534 are both at Forest Glen as of two months ago, so there go two, but I'm not sure if anymore have been transferred.

That sort of seems like a mistake to me, for such reasons as that the lanes on Ridge Blvd. in Evanston aren't wide enough to handle a full sized bus. However, the way North Park was assigning the Optimas (except, perhaps, properly on 205), it probably doesn't make a difference in actuality.

[rmadisonwi]

I don't know if the Archer Novas going to Forest Glen are long-term or not. But, 1000-1019 are being sent to Chicago Garage in exchange for 20 Novas (I forget the numbers). Soon (don't know how long), Archer will no longer have New Flyers, and Chicago will no longer have Novas. This is being done to consolidate fleet types at garages.

I'm told that eventually, Novas will only be at two garages (don't know which other one besides Archer, but could speculate Forest Glen).

Five Optimas were sent to 103rd recently, in exchange for Flxibles. U of C keeps wanting more buses on their routes, so their fleet of 30-footers has grown from about 15 or so up to 25.

Also, busjack, why do you say that Ridge is too small to handle a full-sized bus? Standard buses run on that street without incident all the time.

[jajuan]

I don't know if the Archer Novas going to Forest Glen are long-term or not. But, 1000-1019 are being sent to Chicago Garage in exchange for 20 Novas (I forget the numbers). Soon (don't know how long), Archer will no longer have New Flyers, and Chicago will no longer have Novas. This is being done to consolidate fleet types at garages.

I'm told that eventually, Novas will only be at two garages (don't know which other one besides Archer, but could speculate Forest Glen).

Five Optimas were sent to 103rd recently, in exchange for Flxibles. U of C keeps wanting more buses on their routes, so their fleet of 30-footers has grown from about 15 or so up to 25.

Also, busjack, why do you say that Ridge is too small to handle a full-sized bus? Standard buses run on that street without incident all the time.

I can see how this may be easier, but is it really smart? What if you get new mechanics at these garages and they eventually have to transfer to a different garage. Not to mention the drivers. I've heard drivers say there are differences in handling each model bus that may be assigned to their garage. Shouldn't drivers and mechanics have experience with each current model in the CTA's bus fleet?

[Buslover88]

Wow, from what i'm reading, this is very suprising. I will miss the NOVAs at Chicago once they leave Chicago, but i'm wondering, what's going to happen with 77th's NOVAs?

[rmadisonwi]

I can see how this may be easier, but is it really smart? What if you get new mechanics at these garages and they eventually have to transfer to a different garage. Not to mention the drivers. I've heard drivers say there are differences in handling each model bus that may be assigned to their garage. Shouldn't drivers and mechanics have experience with each current model in the CTA's bus fleet?

Well, by that standard, then every garage should have all 8 or 9 types of buses in the fleet.

Operators/mechanics transferring to a different garage would likely still have to learn some kind of new bus in the fleet (the only common type between North Park and Forest Glen is the Optima, for example). I'm sure it would be far less expensive to train employees on different types on the occasion that they transfer garages than to have to stock different sets of spare parts at a garage the other 99% of the time. It's not always possible to have a garage with only one or two fleet types, but if you can, you might as well.

[Busjack]

I don't know if the Archer Novas going to Forest Glen are long-term or not. But, 1000-1019 are being sent to Chicago Garage in exchange for 20 Novas (I forget the numbers). Soon (don't know how long), Archer will no longer have New Flyers, and Chicago will no longer have Novas. This is being done to consolidate fleet types at garages.

So, I finally get my revenge on those of you advocating replacement in place. However, it took two years. Mayor Daley got his photo op at Archer when 1002 was received.

And those of you might be right that this starts unfolding what rmadison said might happen in March if the funding plan passed (again, only he knows). In any event, expect more changes if the articulated hybrid bus option is exercised.

Also, busjack, why do you say that Ridge is too small to handle a full-sized bus? Standard buses run on that street without incident all the time.

Because while traveling in the curb lane, they slop a good two feet into the left lane. During the summer, there was construction at Ridge and (I believe Dempster) blocking the right lanes each way, and I saw the northbound and southbound buses face off, and then alternate proceeding.

However, since the width difference between a 99 inch Optima and 102 inch regular bus, is 3 inches, that probably wouldn't make much difference.

But taking the other side again, if Evanston is of such a ridership that it is continually threatened with cuts, it would make more sense to run them there than other places others have reported.

Whereupon, a net transfer to the U of C renders this moot (at they say at the building south of the bus stop at 1111 E. 60th).

[Busjack]

I'm told that eventually, Novas will only be at two garages (don't know which other one besides Archer, but could speculate Forest Glen).

Wow, from what i'm reading, this is very suprising. I will miss the NOVAs at Chicago once they leave Chicago, but i'm wondering, what's going to happen with 77th's NOVAs?

Again, I'm not the one with the inside information or the roster. But if you want to speculate more:

There are 484 Novas (minus any wrecks, like the one that hit the bridge girder).

Until recently there were about 229 buses at Archer (117 Novas and 112 New Flyers).

At some point, maybe a couple of years ago, there were about 256 buses at Forest Glen (about 128 each of Flxibles and Novas). Apparently there was some increase for three-track, and there are some Optimas now there.

229+256=485, or close enough for horseshoes.

More speculation: 77th gets a chunk of the hybrid articulated buses.

[jajuan]

Well, by that standard, then every garage should have all 8 or 9 types of buses in the fleet.

Operators/mechanics transferring to a different garage would likely still have to learn some kind of new bus in the fleet (the only common type between North Park and Forest Glen is the Optima, for example). I'm sure it would be far less expensive to train employees on different types on the occasion that they transfer garages than to have to stock different sets of spare parts at a garage the other 99% of the time. It's not always possible to have a garage with only one or two fleet types, but if you can, you might as well.

Whoa, let's not jump the gun. I didn't say there should be 8 or 9 models at each garage. I was thinking there should be the two or three ideal mentioned in their standards of service, given there will be operators/mechanics transferring garages.

[trainman8119]

I don't know if the Archer Novas going to Forest Glen are long-term or not. But, 1000-1019 are being sent to Chicago Garage in exchange for 20 Novas (I forget the numbers). Soon (don't know how long), Archer will no longer have New Flyers, and Chicago will no longer have Novas. This is being done to consolidate fleet types at garages.

Once again, I question the costs of moves like this. You will be moving 200+ buses throughout the city to make this happen. How much fuel is wasted (not to mention labor costs) to do stuff like this. The explanation you give makes some sense, but why not have all of this planned out with the arrival of the New Flyers way back when. Also, does this not throw the age factor out of whack a bit. But then it would give Archer a reason for new buses down the road at the end of the New Flyer delivery process.

Answering my question somewhat, this reaks of Huberman "being more efficient", and it appears cost is not a factor, since now there is no "funding crisis". Maybe if this was being managed properly, every move should be looked at as having no money in the till. This is why I refer to what happened as the beginning of doomsday. Management continues to make the most questionable decisions, seeming to believe that the cash supply is endless, and the legislators as well as the gov allows them to continue to operate like that.

And...I was trying to remember a time when this whole concept was played out and I guess you could say it is not unprecedented...and we as a group have mentioned it. One case was the Old Look Flxible propanes being limited to certain garages and of course Trolleys limited to certain garages. I also remember a lot of bus shuffling at Forest Glen during the early days of the a/c fishbowls arriving in the city (many old look Flxibles, mainly 3700s and some 200s of the older non a/c fishbowls).

[jajuan]

Once again, I question the costs of moves like this. You will be moving 200+ buses throughout the city to make this happen. How much fuel is wasted (not to mention labor costs) to do stuff like this. The explanation you give makes some sense, but why not have all of this planned out with the arrival of the New Flyers way back when. Also, does this not throw the age factor out of whack a bit. But then it would give Archer a reason for new buses down the road at the end of the New Flyer delivery process.

Answering my question somewhat, this reaks of Huberman "being more efficient", and it appears cost is not a factor, since now there is no "funding crisis". Maybe if this was being managed properly, every move should be looked at as having no money in the till. This is why I refer to what happened as the beginning of doomsday. Management continues to make the most questionable decisions, seeming to believe that the cash supply is endless, and the legislators as well as the gov allows them to continue to operate like that.

And...I was trying to remember a time when this whole concept was played out and I guess you could say it is not unprecedented...and we as a group have mentioned it. One case was the Old Look Flxible propanes being limited to certain garages and of course Trolleys limited to certain garages. I also remember a lot of bus shuffling at Forest Glen during the early days of the a/c fishbowls arriving in the city (many old look Flxibles, mainly 3700s and some 200s of the older non a/c fishbowls).

Thank you. This is the other reason I was questioning this move. Huberman was off to a good start by finding money and savings that Kruesi couldn't seem to find. Now to waste money shuffling hundreds of buses around to limit them to just a few garages is dumb given the high fuel costs these days. And the fact that Chicago only has three bus models and Archer two makes the move even more questionable. How hard is it to keep parts for two or three bus models if that's the justification for this questionable move? I'll agree with trainman on this one, if it were better planned before the first 1000s got here it would make more sense. Just continue to place the New Flyers to replace the old equipment and that should cover the goal of cutting back on the number of models in a given garage. If they exercise the Seattle option, we're talking about 1030+150=1180 that's been replacing old equipment since 2006.

[Busjack]

If they exercise the Seattle option, we're talking about 1030+150=1180 that's been replacing old equipment since 2006.

Replacing 1230 buses (considering 150 articulateds for 200 of the old).

May as well count the Optimas as new buses, too, resulting in 1275.