6000-series Flxible - Retirements

[Guest]

480 Nova's is correct. 484 - 4 equals 480. (#6832, #6738, #6726 and #6568 gone) The more interesting part of the link was the pursuit of the 140 base order artics out of 900 mentioned before. that would put us to 348 and climbing if it happens. Also of interest is the gasoline hybrid aspect of that order, which sounds as if it's a new type. Also what's with a 2016 picture at the end of the presentation? Could an announcement somehow be linked to the October announcement of whether or not we get the olympics.

If we get the Olympics, Im sure CTA will do a special commemorative bus using New Flyer bus #2016.

[jajuan]

Has Kedzie pushed out more 6000s along with trading out the 14 1000s that went to FG or are they spread thin on the routes that still mostly use them? I did a quick scan of those routes while scanning routes to see how things stand with the shift of 4000s from NP to K and 1000s from K to FG. Right now even with the routes that do still use 6000s at Kedzie, it doesn't seem to be as many on those routes as I had been seeing just a couple weeks ago. For example at one point it seemed to be about half 6000s on the 82 on one weekday and now even on that route it doesn't seem to be as many of them around. Even though I was one who had been saying they need to be retired out before the NABI mess hit us, it still doesn't seem to be enough artics to retire out many more 6000s at Kedzie especially with movements of 1000s up to FG to make room for those artics that moved down from NP with those movements happening in roughly equal numbers. I know there was talk of 3 for 4 replacements in the past, but ridership couldn't have dropped off much from the increases that happened starting with when gas prices peaked not so long ago given the push by CTA management for increased standing room. So under those circumstances it doesn't strike me this possibly still being an occurrence.

[BusExpert32]

Has Kedzie pushed out more 6000s along with trading out the 14 1000s that went to FG.......

As of today, aren't there only 12 1000s (1222-1233) at FG?

[jajuan]

As of today, aren't there only 12 1000s (1222-1233) at FG?

Wow a slight miscount of only 2 buses which doesn't change the overall crux of the question I posed. Now is anyone knowledgeable to a possible answer to the question?

[BusExpert32]

Wow a slight miscount of only 2 buses which doesn't change the overall crux of the question I posed. Now is anyone knowledgeable to a possible answer to the question?

Sorry. Didn't mean to piss you off.

I don't think any of Kedzie's 6000s were pushed out now, but I'm starting to wonder if this transfer of 1000s to FG is a precursor of a fleet increase and more route swaps on September 6, 2009 (or later) due to expanded service such as the JARC approved service, the new Clybourn route, a new bidirectional #173 route that would require one or two more buses (believing that the current #173 and #174 would be replaced by this), maybe non BRT express routes X8, X66, and X79, etc. Also, 320 more bus drivers must mean something.

The last series of route swaps in March 2008 were assumably intended to even out the fleet amounts at each garage, so with the above mentioned new service some kind of route swaps seem reasonable to keep the balance of buses established at each garage.

Just more CTA speculation.

[trainman8119]

Has Kedzie pushed out more 6000s along with trading out the 14 1000s that went to FG or are they spread thin on the routes that still mostly use them?

I don't know if Kedzie has pushed out more, but I think Chicago might have. I was behind

6069 on Peterson (complete with an F sticker in the windshield) today. I do believe that this would have been a Chicago bus at one time in the swap with 74th. It is possible that some got moved to Chicago, and then Chicago's moved to the Glen (why not just make one move between K and FG is beyond me). I don't know, it all seems very silly and non cost productive and most of all very poorly planned. If you were going to put 2000s at Chicago, for example, they why in heavens would you deliver them to 103. FG would need some Flyers, otherwise it would be the oldest garage in the system. Now that honor probably goes to Archer with their bulk of Novas.

[BusExpert32]

I don't know if Kedzie has pushed out more, but I think Chicago might have. I was behind

6069 on Peterson (complete with an F sticker in the windshield) today. I do believe that this would have been a Chicago bus at one time in the swap with 74th. It is possible that some got moved to Chicago, and then Chicago's moved to the Glen (why not just make one move between K and FG is beyond me). I don't know, it all seems very silly and non cost productive and most of all very poorly planned. If you were going to put 2000s at Chicago, for example, they why in heavens would you deliver them to 103. FG would need some Flyers, otherwise it would be the oldest garage in the system. Now that honor probably goes to Archer with their bulk of Novas.

Flxibles 6068-6070, 6072-6077, 6079-6080 were transferred to FG from Chicago a good few months ago, but I'm not sure exactly when.

[BusHunter]

Flxibles 6068-6070, 6072-6077, 6079-6080 were transferred to FG from Chicago a good few months ago, but I'm not sure exactly when.

Around April 22nd of this year. By the way another cummins bit the dust recently. #6329 is now retired bringing my list to 291 left.

[BusExpert32]

Around April 22nd of this year. By the way another cummins bit the dust recently. #6329 is now retired bringing my list to 291 left.

Wasn't your list at 293 Flxibles left last time?

[jajuan]

Wasn't your list at 293 Flxibles left last time?

I thought he was at 292 last time. It was a whole debate of whether there were 292 or 293 6000s left last time if I remember correctly.

[jajuan]

What a difference a week makes. Last Wednesday the 130 was all 6000s and now it's all 1000s. This route was the one downtown Kedzie route I saw making big use of 6000s last week when I was out. Now today there are none on the route. In fact, there are only three 6000s serving a downtown Kedzie route at this moment: 6007 on the 151, 6008 on the 145 and 6039 on the 38. 52 is only using two right now, 6042 and 6097. 82 as usual is one using a significant number: 6006, 6014, 6019, 6029. 6035, 6036, 6095, and 6096. None of the others in service at this point are using any. So outside 82, 6000 use on the other Kedzie routes today seem to be mostly rush hour use.

[mikeymc77]

Just wondering??? Were all of the 6000 series rehabbed? Cuz I seen one today on the #91 that looked like "it was next". 6123 didnt look too good.

[Guest]

What a difference a week makes. Last Wednesday the 130 was all 6000s and now it's all 1000s. This route was the one downtown Kedzie route I saw making big use of 6000s last week when I was out. Now today there are none on the route. In fact, there are only three 6000s serving a downtown Kedzie route at this moment: 6007 on the 151, 6008 on the 145 and 6039 on the 38. 52 is only using two right now, 6042 and 6097. 82 as usual is one using a significant number: 6006, 6014, 6019, 6029. 6035, 6036, 6095, and 6096. None of the others in service at this point are using any. So outside 82, 6000 use on the other Kedzie routes today seem to be mostly rush hour use.

Yesterday there were three Flxibles on the 16/18 route.

[BusExpert32]

Just wondering??? Were all of the 6000 series rehabbed? Cuz I seen one today on the #91 that looked like "it was next". 6123 didnt look too good.

A few (like 6123) still haven't been rehabbed, but from the CTA press release about the 4150-4207 NF buses, I inferred that the CTA still intends to put work into these Flxibles and rehab them (that is, rehab the non-cummins Flxibles). For example, I haven't seen 6178 (an unrehabbed bus until now) for a week and a half on Bustracker, but it wasn't listed as retired by BusHunter yesterday, so the odds are its being rehabbed.

[jajuan]

One thing that I notice is mentioned in the Chicago Breaking News article about the deferred 140 artics is that it is mentioned that all the 6000s would be retired when CTA is able to get the funding to finally get those arctics. The article made a passing reference to CTA likely having for the time being put money into 'maintenance of Flxible buses received in 1995, that would have been retired by the 140 deferred buses.'

[BusHunter]

One thing that I notice is mentioned in the Chicago Breaking News article about the deferred 140 artics is that it is mentioned that all the 6000s would be retired when CTA is able to get the funding to finally get those arctics. The article made a passing reference to CTA likely having for the time being put money into 'maintenance of Flxible buses received in 1995, that would have been retired by the 140 deferred buses.'

yeah, if you figure what they'd lose for #6000's for these 58 coming in now, it would drop the list to roughly 230 left. (which basically has happened so far 15 #1000's to FG from Kedzie, for 15 #4000's from NP to Kedzie, for 15 new arrivals to NP.) This is a 1 to 1 ratio, leading me to conclude these buses were so far mean't to upgrade capacity at Kedzie. (same buses just longer in length) If somewhere along the line we continue on the 3 to 4 ratio, I'm suspecting with the 140 when that happens. That would roughly retire 200 more. The 30 left may be retired by condensing the fleet, by having mostly new buses the spare ratio would be smaller. (Case in point 208 NF #4000's equals 226 NABI's.) I think that's one reason why FG is getting #1000's, to bring their spare ratio down, having the oldest buses now that ratio should be higher than any garage. In time if not taken care of it would've probably led to a fleet increase there as more buses would be sidelined for repair. BTW, NP had quite a few #4000's in the garage during the rush period yesterday, they look overdue for a swap.

[BusHunter]

Just wondering??? Were all of the 6000 series rehabbed? Cuz I seen one today on the #91 that looked like "it was next". 6123 didnt look too good.

No, all the Cummins were never rehabbed(#6305-#6329) And these 22 weren't either. #6003, #6016, #6050, #6098, #6110, #6111, #6114, #6115, #6116, #6118, #6123, #6132, #6143, #6146, #6151, #6159, #6178, #6185, #6198, #6231, #6276 and #6295. So about 47 total. Of those #6003, #6016, #6098, #6110, #6111, #6115, #6116, #6143, #6146, #6185, #6198, #6276, #6295, #6305, #6306, #6307, #6309, #6311 - #6315, #6317, #6318, #6319, #6320, #6325 and #6329 are retired. So about 19 remain today. 10 Cummins 9 regular #6000's.

[BusExpert32]

yeah, if you figure what they'd lose for #6000's for these 58 coming in now, it would drop the list to roughly 230 left. (which basically has happened so far 15 #1000's to FG from Kedzie, for 15 #4000's from NP to Kedzie, for 15 new arrivals to NP.) This is a 1 to 1 ratio, leading me to conclude these buses were so far mean't to upgrade capacity at Kedzie. (same buses just longer in length) If somewhere along the line we continue on the 3 to 4 ratio, I'm suspecting with the 140 when that happens. That would roughly retire 200 more. The 30 left may be retired by condensing the fleet, by having mostly new buses the spare ratio would be smaller. (Case in point 208 NF #4000's equals 226 NABI's.) I think that's one reason why FG is getting #1000's, to bring their spare ratio down, having the oldest buses now that ratio should be higher than any garage. In time if not taken care of it would've probably led to a fleet increase there as more buses would be sidelined for repair. BTW, NP had quite a few #4000's in the garage during the rush period yesterday, they look overdue for a swap.

Yes, but only one Flxible has been retired, 6329. A few from FG were only transferred down south, not retired.

[BusHunter]

Yes, but only one Flxible has been retired, 6329. A few from FG were only transferred down south, not retired.

Two now, #6328 is gone for this month's update no other changes so far except the fleet has increased by about 30 buses overall.

[trey824]

No, all the Cummins were never rehabbed(#6305-#6329) And these 22 weren't either. #6003, #6016, #6050, #6098, #6110, #6111, #6114, #6115, #6116, #6118, #6123, #6132, #6143, #6146, #6151, #6159, #6178, #6185, #6198, #6231, #6276 and #6295. So about 47 total. Of those #6003, #6016, #6098, #6110, #6111, #6115, #6116, #6143, #6146, #6185, #6198, #6276, #6295, #6305, #6306, #6307, #6309, #6311 - #6315, #6317, #6318, #6319, #6320, #6325 and #6329 are retired. So about 19 remain today. 10 Cummins 9 regular #6000's.

no actually 6305 was rehabbed.it recieved a new paint job and minor engine upgrades.if you live near 74th garage or its service area you would see it.

[BusHunter]

no actually 6305 was rehabbed.it recieved a new paint job and minor engine upgrades.if you live near 74th garage or its service area you would see it.

It must have been a bust because it's gone ahead of the other Cummins. Then only lasting 2 years post rehab is a short period of time. I did see the bus, took a ride on it and noticed it still had those original seat inserts (that needed replacing bad, in many spots the seat insert had detioriated to the point of seeing this grimy grey undercoat of the seat insert itself) as they were not replaced. Also the interior surfaces didn't seem to be touched up so I assumed it was just a paint job or exterior rehab. One question I always had about 74th buses were why were #6021 and #6192(there at the time) repainted after they had been rehabbed and painted the first time. #6192 became a new logo bus and I believe #6021 was new logo all along which means it was rehabbed after 1/2006 as every bus rehabbed after that date was new logo versus the ones before it were not. That would put it's first paint job at a year or two old before the second that's around 2 to 3 years old now. A handful of other buses had the new logo placed over the original rehab's paint job out of 103rd like #6080 and #6088 so not all of the new logos paint job are post 2006 but probably about 98 percent are.

[mikeymc77]

Just wondering??? Were all of the 6000 series rehabbed? Cuz I seen one today on the #91 that looked like "it was next". 6123 didnt look too good.

Just seen 6123 sitting on the 79th Street side over at South Shops. Looks like the end of the line, I dont think they'd repaint this bus unless its still mechanically sound. I've never seen a bus look in such bad shape in service.

[BusHunter]

Just seen 6123 sitting on the 79th Street side over at South Shops. Looks like the end of the line, I dont think they'd repaint this bus unless its still mechanically sound. I've never seen a bus look in such bad shape in service.

6151's not too good either. The paint's chipping quite a bit on the roof it almost looks like it's done. I wouldn't expect any major service on these in fact when they need that they'll probably be gone. BTW, #6316's still alive seen it this morning in service.

[BusExpert32]

6151's not too good either. The paint's chipping quite a bit on the roof it almost looks like it's done. I wouldn't expect any major service on these in fact when they need that they'll probably be gone. BTW, #6316's still alive seen it this morning in service.

Since you're not reporting these Flxibles as retired right now, then there must be some reason that 6123 is at South Shops. I know that you've said they're not going to be rehabbed, but I'm just not counting out the possibility yet, since 6123 is at South Shops today, but its not "retired" today.

[Busjack]

Since you're not reporting these Flxibles as retired right now, then there must be some reason that 6123 is at South Shops. I know that you've said they're not going to be rehabbed, but I'm just not counting out the possibility yet, since 6123 is at South Shops today, but its not "retired" today.

There is also the distinction that if it is by what actually is the South Shops (i.e. 79th and Vincennes), it is probably there for repairs. The boneyard is on the Perry side of the complex, which, at the moment, seems filled with NABIs. Since Mikey said he saw it on the 79th St, side, the former seems to be the case.