6000-series Flxible - Retirements

[jajuan]

Countdown to the last Flxible Metro 6000-Series:

Days remaining in service... 18. If you want to ride them/photograph them, better start soon!

Actually I think it's 17 officially. Feb 7th is 17 days away. Of course for garages that don't run Flx's on the weekends anyway, the last day of service for them will be Feb 5th instead of that Sat, the 6th. But either way those of you that are fans of them, get your rides in.

[artthouwill]

It'll be a bittersweet day, when Archer closes & the 6000s will be retired and pulled off the street,...subsequently...it'll be my last day working @ Cta too. Life surely does serve you lemons...but I'm not much of a lemonade drinker. lol

buh-bye flx'ys!

Sorry to hear that. Are there any rules for you guys for call backs if, say a large number of current workers retire or get fired? Will CTA retain a certain number of part-timers and pull replacements from that pool? Or are there severance packages to make you go away and never come back?

As for the 6000s, I'm not sure how I feel about them, except they were much better than their 5300 brothers. I like the engines (not the Cummins one though), I like the high floor ride, but they do show their age, the lighting is dim, and the buses are falling apart.

[BusHunter]

Actually I think it's 17 officially. Feb 7th is 17 days away. Of course for garages that don't run Flx's on the weekends anyway, the last day of service for them will be Feb 5th instead of that Sat, the 6th. But either way those of you that are fans of them, get your rides in.

It's also going to be the first time in 50 years a Flxible will not be part of CTA's fleet. So it's an end of an era. I guess we are starting a nf era now. They've been around since 1995 with at least 12 more years in service. In response to your quote, probably Feb 5th will be the last day for the Flx's. Probably that weekend will be spent transfering around the fleet for the post 2/7 service and they may be holding those Flx in.

[jajuan]

It's also going to be the first time in 50 years a Flxible will not be part of CTA's fleet. So it's an end of an era. I guess we are starting a nf era now. They've been around since 1995 with at least 12 more years in service. In response to your quote, probably Feb 5th will be the last day for the Flx's. Probably that weekend will be spent transfering around the fleet for the post 2/7 service and they may be holding those Flx in.

Yes I thought about the inevitable transferring around to account for Archer closing. I was also thinking perhaps FG or 74th might hold a few on hand that Saturday for one last hurrah. In regards to the transferring this is going to be interesting to see how some of this plays out. Will it be on that final day, a bus pulls out on its 1st run assigned as a Archer bus then at the end of the day when it's time to pull in go to its new garage to prep for that route going to a new garage, or go back to Archer to wait for transfer overnight? I suspect that in respect to 24 hr routes, part of it will be the route transitions to its new garage assignment during the overnight hours as runs pullout during those times.

[cta5658]

i'm gonna miss the 6000's sorely like the 4400's and 5300's, but i'm slowly getting used to the New Flyers

[sw4400]

This is what I think will happen on the final weekend...

-Feb 5th: Offical last day of Flxibles at most garages with the exception of maybe Forest Glen. They'll continue to run some Flxibles on the 6th and 7th. Feb. 5th, Chicago, 74th, 103rd and Kedzie Flxibles will be transferred to 77th/Perry or 92nd/Ewing for scrap preperations.

-Feb 6th: Flxible numbers at Forest Glen will be cut in half overnight as some NOVA LFS's from Archer and/or New Flyer D40LF's will start to come in to retire the remaining Flxibles

Feb 7th: Last Flxible(s) will be in service and will be pulled for scrapping at the end of their revenue day. If any additional buses are required, a few more NOVA LFS's and/or New Flyer D40LF's will be transferred in.

Feb 8th: All Flxibles should be retired, but may not all be scrapped as some may be turned into WB's to retire some more of the TMC's and any remaining Flyer D901A's/ M.A.N Articulateds currently in use by the Ironworkers(if any still are).

I think the final Flxible will be at Forest Glen based on the final days of the Flyer D901A. Last day of operation was 9/11/01(#9832 and #1611 on #152)

[jajuan]

This is what I think will happen on the final weekend...

-Feb 5th: Offical last day of Flxibles at most garages with the exception of maybe Forest Glen. They'll continue to run some Flxibles on the 6th and 7th. Feb. 5th, Chicago, 74th, 103rd and Kedzie Flxibles will be transferred to 77th/Perry or 92nd/Ewing for scrap preperations.

-Feb 6th: Flxible numbers at Forest Glen will be cut in half overnight as some NOVA LFS's from Archer and/or New Flyer D40LF's will start to come in to retire the remaining Flxibles

Feb 7th: Last Flxible(s) will be in service and will be pulled for scrapping at the end of their revenue day. If any additional buses are required, a few more NOVA LFS's and/or New Flyer D40LF's will be transferred in.

Feb 8th: All Flxibles should be retired, but may not all be scrapped as some may be turned into WB's to retire some more of the TMC's and any remaining Flyer D901A's/ M.A.N Articulateds currently in use by the Ironworkers(if any still are).

I think the final Flxible will be at Forest Glen based on the final days of the Flyer D901A. Last day of operation was 9/11/01(#9832 and #1611 on #152)

Sorry but I just don't see that happening in regards to Flx's being in service beyond Feb. 6th. The first official day of service cuts is the 7th, meaning the new schedules start the 7th and thus less buses of any model on the road than would be on any Sunday now. That also means Archer will be officially closed on the 7th, so where are they supposed to fit any Flx's that Sat into Sun when the Novas and Optimas at Archer will be at whatever garages they get reassigned to as the new schedules start on Feb 7th? Sorry but with one garage gone, it's hard to see where they would have extra room. They have enough on their hands with shuffling the unused extras not in service that are going to new garages that Sat so that they can be ready for the new schedules that Sun, which includes getting Archer's Saturday extras to their new garage homes while the rest are in service that final day Archer is open.

[MVTArider]

Sorry but I just don't see that happening in regards to Flx's being in service beyond Feb. 6th. The first official day of service cuts is the 7th, meaning the new schedules start the 7th and thus less buses of any model on the road than would be on any Sunday now. That also means Archer will be officially closed on the 7th, so where are they supposed to fit any Flx's that Sat into Sun when the Novas and Optimas at Archer will be at whatever garages they get reassigned to as the new schedules start on Feb 7th? Sorry but with one garage gone, it's hard to see where they would have extra room. They have enough on their hands with shuffling the unused extras not in service that are going to new garages that Sat so that they can be ready for the new schedules that Sun, which includes getting Archer's Saturday extras to their new garage homes while the rest are in service that final day Archer is open.

Could CTA possibly just park the Flxs in Archer until they are ready to go out for the scrap process? I'm assuming Archer garage won't be vanishing into thin air at 12:01am on 02-07.

[jajuan]

Could CTA possibly just park the Flxs in Archer until they are ready to go out for the scrap process? I'm assuming Archer garage won't be vanishing into thin air at 12:01am on 02-07.

No it's not going to vanish, but the point is it's going to close and the Flx's will be retired because CTA can't afford to hold on to either come Feb. 7th. Putting any Flxibles on the road past the 6th just isn't in their budget from what they say. Also even if they did house them there, they're not going to have the manpower to keep them in revenue come the 7th anyway due to the almost 1100 workers being laid off in addition to the demise of Archer garage and the Flxibles. Those are the other things to consider along with the complex logistics of reploying the remaining bus fleet among the seven garages that will remain in operation.

[artthouwill]

No it's not going to vanish, but the point is it's going to close and the Flx's will be retired because CTA can't afford to hold on to either come Feb. 7th. Putting any Flxibles on the road past the 6th just isn't in their budget from what they say. Also even if they did house them there, they're not going to have the manpower to keep them in revenue come the 7th anyway due to the almost 1100 workers being laid off in addition to the demise of Archer garage and the Flxibles. Those are the other things to consider along with the complex logistics of reploying the remaining bus fleet among the seven garages that will remain in operation.

I actually think storing Flxs at Archer is a good idea. 77th already stores the unused NABIs and I don't think 92nd/Ewing will house 287 buses at once for scrap. Archer's closing will save money with downsizing garage personnel (managers, mechanics, drivers, supervisors, fuel delivery, etc) but it is still CTA property until they sell it. How long did 69th, Limits, 52nd/Cottage Grove sit vacant before selling the property?

On Feb 6th, garages with Flxs could send them to Archer and swap with Archer's Novas. It would be cheaper to do this than trying to empty out Archer and get Flxs from all over the city (especially FG) to Ewing scrapyard (if there is any room which I doubt). Unlike the 4400s and 5300s which were phased out, you are talking about retiring 287 buses at once. Certainly they can be stored at Archer and gradually sent over to be scrapped.

[Busjack]

... but it is still CTA property until they sell it. How long did 69th, Limits, 52nd/Cottage Grove sit vacant before selling the property?

I mentioned earlier that the CTA, in January 2010, just got around to selling the 52nd property (Word doc), even though the garage was closed about 1983. By comparison, 69th and Limits went pretty quickly (there was demand for the property around Limits). In most cases, such as North-Cicero and 69th, the CTA gets it appraised, it isn't worth much, and they unload it on the city to try to find a developer.

I agree with you that CTA is not going to start instantly on Feb. 8 to get all the tow trucks to take the buses to the scrapper, nor bring the demo ball to Archer. BusHunter first suggested the idea of using Archer to house the dead fleet at least temporarily. However, I noted a couple of weeks ago, and with the January CTA board meeting having passed, there doesn't seem to be much of any momentum to find the money to avert the Feb. 7 scenario.

[jajuan]

I mentioned earlier that the CTA, in January 2010, just got around to selling the 52nd property (Word doc), even though the garage was closed about 1983. By comparison, 69th and Limits went pretty quickly (there was demand for the property around Limits). In most cases, such as North-Cicero and 69th, the CTA gets it appraised, it isn't worth much, and they unload it on the city to try to find a developer.

I agree with you that CTA is not going to start instantly on Feb. 8 to get all the tow trucks to take the buses to the scrapper, nor bring the demo ball to Archer. BusHunter first suggested the idea of using Archer to house the dead fleet at least temporarily. However, I noted a couple of weeks ago, and with the January CTA board meeting having passed, there doesn't seem to be much of any momentum to find the money to avert the Feb. 7 scenario.

And I'm not disagreeing that the Flx's can be stored at Archer. Nor am I saying that the Flx's were going to be scrapped instantly come Feb 7th. I'm just pointing out that they'd had to work around some already complicated logistics of having a smaller schedule, smaller work force, redistributing the remaining fleet amongst the seven remaining garages to keep any in revenue service beyond Feb 6th. Not only do you need people to drive them, but you need someone to do whatever service is needed to put them on the road, even if for just one more day or two. That's going to be much harder to do when that smaller workforce has the remaining 1700+ buses to worry about.

[rideonrulez]

you are talking about retiring 287 buses at once.

Hate to break it to you but the number of in service Flx's has reached an all time low of 255....

[jajuan]

Hate to break it to you but the number of in service Flx's has reached an all time low of 255....

So their retirement has stepped up. So Flx fans, they are on the way out and are set to be gone by next month.

[cta5658]

is my beloved #6085 still in service, or has it gone up to bus heaven with?

[BusExpert32]

Hate to break it to you but the number of in service Flx's has reached an all time low of 255....

It was 277 Flxs last update on here, so I'm surprised that they decided to knock off 22 Flxibles before Feb. 7, especially with the rumors that 400 NFs (1630-2029) are light-weight junk prone to cracks (although, they're just rumors- that everyone's decided to not talk about, even the biggest New Flyer haters).

[jajuan]

It was 277 Flxs last update on here, so I'm surprised that they decided to knock off 22 Flxibles before Feb. 7, especially with the rumors that 400 NFs (1630-2029) are light-weight junk prone to cracks (although, they're just rumors- that everyone's decided to not talk about).

If it's not talked about then it is quite possible there's not much stock in it. Don't you think a crack in a 40 footer would be somewhat harder not to spot than in an artic?

[jajuan]

And though I personally am no fan of the Flx's there wasn't any justification for giving somebody a -1 for asking about his favorite bus.

[sw4400]

According to Mr. CTA(canned voice), the changes to service will take place Feb. 8th, so seeing Flxibles on the 7th is possible. Don't believe me, ride a bus, you're bound to hear the announcement.

[jajuan]

According to Mr. CTA(canned voice), the changes to service will take place Feb. 8th, so seeing Flxibles on the 7th is possible. Don't believe me, ride a bus, you're bound to hear the announcement.

That's only on routes that have no Sunday schedule changes or no Sunday service at all. So of course those routes will say 'effective Feb 8' for route specific changes. The yellow signs posted on the bus, at rail stations, and now starting today on bus stops say the changes are effective system-wide FEB 7. Not to mention Mr CTA's announcements on the rest of the routes say 'effective Feb 7' for route specific changes. If you listen even closer Mr CTA also gives the general system wide notice as being 'effective Feb 7'. The Flx's retirement and Archer's closing are part of that system wide change. So I still don't see it too likely that any will be around on the 7th.

[artthouwill]

Some routes I've rode recently:

35th: This route will start later at 4 a.m and end earlier at 12:30 a.m. weekdays, with similar announcements for the weekend. Also this route weekdays and weekends will have less frequent service.

9 Ashland: On weekends, this route will have less frequent service.

49 Western: On weekends, this route will have less frequent service

X49 Western Express: On Feb 7, the X49 Western Express will be eliminated. Alternate service will be provided by the 49 Western bus which runs parallel to this route.

X9 Ashland Express: On Feb 7th, the X9 Ashland Express will be eliminated. Alternate service will be provided by the 9 Ashland bus which runs parallel to this route.

12 Roosevelt: On Feb 7th, this route will end later at 12:30 a.m. weekdays and 12:50 a.m on weekends. Also on weekdays and weekends this route will have less frequent service.

I couldn't remember everything verbatum but it is close.

[BusHunter]

Yes I thought about the inevitable transferring around to account for Archer closing. I was also thinking perhaps FG or 74th might hold a few on hand that Saturday for one last hurrah. In regards to the transferring this is going to be interesting to see how some of this plays out. Will it be on that final day, a bus pulls out on its 1st run assigned as a Archer bus then at the end of the day when it's time to pull in go to its new garage to prep for that route going to a new garage, or go back to Archer to wait for transfer overnight? I suspect that in respect to 24 hr routes, part of it will be the route transitions to its new garage assignment during the overnight hours as runs pullout during those times.

Kedzie is definitely going to need about 100 buses. (50 or so to replace #6000's and 50 - 60 for a fleet increase) Chances are they will end up with some of the Archer Nova's. By what I figure all garages would see a fleet decrease except Kedzie and NP. (Np looks to be put closer to 300 maybe 20 or 30 more, probably NF's from Chicago) There's going to be alot of transferring to fill in the voids of no #6000's anymore at Fg, Kedzie and 74th. The rest should cancel out by the fleet decreases. By what I can gather looks as if 74th may get the rest of the Archer nova's. They'll need about 50 to replace the #6000's that are still at 74th after the decrease. I don't know if they would transfer over #1159 - #1091 to Fg, but if they did Fg and 74th would be about 50/50 for Nova's and NF's. Either that or I see some 77th Nova's maybe the #6800's back to FG. So if you figure all those transfers then there will be alot of transferring. Btw, if all this holds true Kedzie will have a fleet of about 350. Where are they going to park 50-60 more buses?

[Busjack]

... Btw, if all this holds true Kedzie will have a fleet of about 350. Where are they going to park 50-60 more buses?

I think that assumption hasn't been demonstrated. As I noted before, it appears that the 1750 remaining buses would be allocated 250 each to the 7 remaining garages. Supposedly the capacity of each is about 250. I know a little finagling is needed because only some get artics., but anyway.

Also, as I previously noted, the poster was pretty definite on what routes K would get, but not so definite about what it would lose, except that it would split 8 with 74, 82 with NP, and maybe some of the 140s would go to NP.

But, in summary, I don't think the intent was to have one garage with 350, and others with slightly over 200. Unless CTA management is really nuts.:D

[jajuan]

Some routes I've rode recently:

35th: This route will start later at 4 a.m and end earlier at 12:30 a.m. weekdays, with similar announcements for the weekend. Also this route weekdays and weekends will have less frequent service.

9 Ashland: On weekends, this route will have less frequent service.

49 Western: On weekends, this route will have less frequent service

X49 Western Express: On Feb 7, the X49 Western Express will be eliminated. Alternate service will be provided by the 49 Western bus which runs parallel to this route.

X9 Ashland Express: On Feb 7th, the X9 Ashland Express will be eliminated. Alternate service will be provided by the 9 Ashland bus which runs parallel to this route.

12 Roosevelt: On Feb 7th, this route will end later at 12:30 a.m. weekdays and 12:50 a.m on weekends. Also on weekdays and weekends this route will have less frequent service.

I couldn't remember everything verbatum but it is close.

Actually for 12 Roosevelt I believe it's 12:30 am weekdays and Saturdays, and 12:40 am Sundays/holidays although Mr. CTA says service will end 'weekdays and Saturdays at 12:30 am and weekends/holidays at 12:40 am. And on weekdays and weekends, in the evening, this route will have less frquent service." Note where the mixup in the announcement is.

[jajuan]

I think that assumption hasn't been demonstrated. As I noted before, it appears that the 1750 remaining buses would be allocated 250 each to the 7 remaining garages. Supposedly the capacity of each is about 250. I know a little finagling is needed because only some get artics., but anyway.

Also, as I previously noted, the poster was pretty definite on what routes K would get, but not so definite about what it would lose, except that it would split 8 with 74, 82 with NP, and maybe some of the 140s would go to NP.

But, in summary, I don't think the intent was to have one garage with 350, and others with slightly over 200. Unless CTA management is really nuts.

I don't see Kedzie is going to get up to that many either, though I agree that there may be need for a bit of a bigger fleet there and NP. How big is up in the air because it's less clear on what's lost at each. There was only a mention that some of the Evanston work would go to FG with no specifics on how it would be divided, and how the Lake Shore work gets split has even less clarity as mentioned. On that front it can be more split work on individual routes, like mentioned for 8 and 82 or routes get reassigned. Though I see big monkey wrenches on both sides of that unless there is more work traded out in both than that hinted at, as in I don't see how NP can reassume full assignment on any when trading some of the Evanston work can possibly be cancelled to a big degree by sharing 49 and 82, and how much can Kedzie hold on to by bringing back in 21, 50 and 60 as well as picking up 62?