6000-series Flxible - Retirements

[BusHunter]

November's update only has 1 #6000 retired, #6307, an unrehabbed cummins. This only leaves 16 cummins left, with the overall total at 300 left.

December's update only has 1 retired also. #6143, an unrehabbed #6000. This takes us down to 299 left.

[BusExpert32]

December's update only has 1 retired also. #6143, an unrehabbed #6000. This takes us down to 299 left.

Do you know how the 299 6000s are divided up in quantity at the four garages? (How many at each garage?)

[BusHunter]

Do you know how the 299 6000s are divided up in quantity at the four garages? (How many at each garage?)

Kedzie has #6006 - #6015, #6017 - #6037 and #6039. (32 buses) Chicago has #6038, #6040 - #6070, #6072 - #6077 and #6079 - #6081. (41 buses) FG has #6001, #6002, #6004 - #6005, #6082, #6087, #6090 - #6097, #6100 - #6109, #6112 -#6114, #6117 - #6142, #6144, #6145, #6147 - #6184 and #6186 - #6196. (104 buses) 74th has #6000, #6083 - #6086, #6099, #6197, #6199 - #6202, #6204 - #6209, #6211 - #6225, #6227 - #6234, #6236 - #6275, #6277 - #6294, #6296 - #6300, #6302 - #6306, #6308, #6310, #6312, #6316, #6318, #6320 - #6324 and #6326 - #6329. ( 122 buses)

[geneking7320]

:D Yesterday evening I saw a 6000 westbound on Adams crossing Dearborn.

I couldn't see the vehicle number or the destination sign [too far away] but noted the bus had a "wrap" which was largely white. I thought it looked good but I wondered how many days the 6000 Flxibles have left.

Gene King

[CircleSeven]

At least I'm happy that 6267 & 6327 are still at 74th.

[jajuan]

Yesterday evening I saw a 6000 westbound on Adams crossing Dearborn.

I couldn't see the vehicle number or the destination sign [too far away] but noted the bus had a "wrap" which was largely white. I thought it looked good but I wondered how many days the 6000 Flxibles have left.

Gene King

It possibly could have been 6033 from Kedzie garage. That bus has a mostly white wrap for Allstate IIRC. Given you said it was evening it could have been working either 126 or 151.

[jajuan]

Riding 6033 on the 12 Roosevelt late this morning reminded of the one aggravating flaw that Flxible never seemed to be able to fix on the Metro, those darn leaking top hatches during wet weather. :angry:

[qwantae]

Riding 6033 on the 12 Roosevelt late this morning reminded of the one aggravating flaw that Flxible never seemed to be able to fix on the Metro, those darn leaking top hatches during wet weather.

LOL! I get that alot last year on mostly 74th Flxibles (6200s) on their busy routes. It is always the wet seats, it barely had these issues on 5300s. But I gotta love them and enjoy them til retirement as last high floors for CTA fleet.

[qwantae]

It possibly could have been 6033 from Kedzie garage. That bus has a mostly white wrap for Allstate IIRC. Given you said it was evening it could have been working either 126 or 151.

I was just recently rode that bus on #124 to Navy Pier.

[qwantae]

At least I'm happy that 6267 & 6327 are still at 74th.

I did remember that 6327 was the first 6000 to have LED destinated sign and its been since 2003 (the only one) til rest of them got theirs in 2005/06.

[Busjack]

Riding 6033 on the 12 Roosevelt late this morning reminded of the one aggravating flaw that Flxible never seemed to be able to fix on the Metro, those darn leaking top hatches during wet weather.

Has there ever been a Metro without duck (or duct) tape on the roof near the door? :lol:

[Busjack]

Maybe this is the best spot on speculating on how many 6000s will be left, say, in September, 2009:

... By my math, that's about 235 6000s [gone] (assuming that the 110 60DELFs would replace 145 40 foot buses, if the 3 for 4 is still valid, which I question)....

... Also depending on if the actual BRT service gets started before the 58 so called "mystery buses" arrives, the 58 could actually wind up replacing what would be left for #6000's which would be in the 70's when #1000's are done along with up to #4149.

I get your point that if Phase I is started with conventional equipment, the mystery buses would displace those buses, which then would retire whatever is left of the 6000s.... By now, I suppose I and everyone else are confused.

Now to the fallacy. Even if BRT starts with conventional equipment, that would mean that there would have to be a fleet increase for X8, X66 and X79. That in turn would mean that while the BRT buses would, under that scenario and cascading down, eventually result in the retirement of 6000s, those would be 6000s that would have had to be retained in storage pending the increased system-wide fleet requirement. You couldn't crush those buses in early 2009, and have enough left to start BRT without getting the BRT buses.

For that matter, some equipment has to be maintained to cover the fleet increase attributable to the RTA/JARC expansions (estimated by BusExpert to be about 17).

With these scenarios, I may have overshot by saying I accounted for 235 6000s that could be scrapped in the next 6 or so months.

On the other hand, we don't know how much of the base order of 140 out of the 900 hybrid articulateds was exercised, when the notice to proceed date is, etc.

Man, my head is really swimming now.

BTW, my rough estimate, taking into account that 4400s, 5300s, and 5800s have probably seen their last run, is that CTA will have on Monday about 2070 buses. Since prior to getting the New Flyers, it was popularly said that CTA had about 2100, there hasn't been the fleet increase thought, but maybe that is the result of scrapping both the junk and the junk that backed it up, maybe a few 3 for 4s, and the end of 3 Track.

[jajuan]

Has there ever been a Metro without duck (or duct) tape on the roof near the door?

Probably not. And I'm not seeing how qwantae experienced leaks less on the 5300s when I experienced them on those and was disappointed that the same problem plagued the 6000s too. I do remember mentioning on another thread some months ago that it was an annoyance on the Metros used in Champaign-Urbana when I lived there for a year from 1993-1994, and other posters mentioned experiencing it on Metros from other cities as well.

[BusExpert32]

For that matter, some equipment has to be maintained to cover the fleet increase attributable to the RTA/JARC expansions (estimated by BusExpert to be about 17).

And one can never forget the possibility of the return of the old #41 Elston/Clybourn (at least on Clybourn). You could pump that 17 up to maybe 23 if this were to be included.

[Tamir4317]

And one can never forget the possibility of the return of the old #41 Elston/Clybourn.

You could pump that 17 up to a round 30 if this were to be included.

I wasn't going to say anything, but I wrote to CTA a few months ago, and they said that funding for the Clybourn corridor was approved by the RTA at a meeting on June 19th. They hope to implement service within the new year (and it's the new year). Though I suggested that the a Clybourn route should be called "Clybourn/Elston", since Clybourn is the main street it would serve.

[Busjack]

... FG has #6001, #6002, #6004 - #6005, #6082, #6087, #6090 - #6097, #6100 - #6109, #6112 -#6114, #6117 - #6142, #6144, #6145, #6147 - #6184 and #6186 - #6196. (104 buses) 74th has #6000, #6083 - #6086, #6099, #6197, #6199 - #6202, #6204 - #6209, #6211 - #6225, #6227 - #6234, #6236 - #6275, #6277 - #6294, #6296 - #6300, #6302 - #6306, #6308, #6310, #6312, #6316, #6318, #6320 - #6324 and #6326 - #6329. ( 122 buses)

And now 6005 shows up on 63. It caught my attention because I thought a low 6000 at 74th was odd.

[BusHunter]

And now 6005 shows up on 63. It caught my attention because I thought a low 6000 at 74th was odd.

Yeah, the low #6000's at Fg are now at 74th. (#6001, #6002, #6004, and #6005) Also 74th has picked up #6081 from Chicago. It was on the 59 yesterday.

[Busjack]

Yeah, the low #6000's at Fg are now at 74th. (#6001, #6002, #6004, and #6005) Also 74th has picked up #6081 from Chicago. It was on the 59 yesterday.

Rhetorical question: How many garages have they (6000-6005; 6000 showed up on Bus Tracker on a 74 route) been at in the past 6 months? I count 4 (if you count 74th twice, sort of like Grover Cleveland).

[BusHunter]

Rhetorical question: How many garages have they (6000-6005; 6000 showed up on Bus Tracker on a 74 route) been at in the past 6 months? I count 4 (if you count 74th twice, sort of like Grover Cleveland).

Correct, March - Sept. they were at 74th, Sept to Nov they were at Kedzie, Nov to Jan Fg, and Jan - now at 74th. During there entire existence they've been at the following garages in order. 77th, 74th, Kedzie, Fg,Kedzie, 103rd, 74th, Kedzie, Fg and 74th.

[trainman8119]

Correct, March - Sept. they were at 74th, Sept to Nov they were at Kedzie, Nov to Jan Fg, and Jan - now at 74th. During there entire existence they've been at the following garages in order. 77th, 74th, Kedzie, Fg,Kedzie, 103rd, 74th, Kedzie, Fg and 74th.

How do I get the fuel contract for CTA??? Man, I'd be rich !!!!!!!

(Not to mention regular wear and tear)

[Busjack]

How do I get the fuel contract for CTA??? Man, I'd be rich !!!!!!!

(Not to mention regular wear and tear)

Hugo Chavez didn't come through with the cheap stuff a couple of years ago, and apparently now can't afford to give it away.

Maybe you have to change your name to BP.

Of course, yours was a rhetorical comment, too. I shouldn't have answered it. :D

[BusExpert32]

Maybe this is the best spot on speculating on how many 6000s will be left, say, in September, 2009:

Now to the fallacy. Even if BRT starts with conventional equipment, that would mean that there would have to be a fleet increase for X8, X66 and X79. That in turn would mean that while the BRT buses would, under that scenario and cascading down, eventually result in the retirement of 6000s, those would be 6000s that would have had to be retained in storage pending the increased system-wide fleet requirement. You couldn't crush those buses in early 2009, and have enough left to start BRT without getting the BRT buses.

For that matter, some equipment has to be maintained to cover the fleet increase attributable to the RTA/JARC expansions (estimated by BusExpert to be about 17).

With these scenarios, I may have overshot by saying I accounted for 235 6000s that could be scrapped in the next 6 or so months.

On the other hand, we don't know how much of the base order of 140 out of the 900 hybrid articulateds was exercised, when the notice to proceed date is, etc.

Man, my head is really swimming now.

BTW, my rough estimate, taking into account that 4400s, 5300s, and 5800s have probably seen their last run, is that CTA will have on Monday about 2070 buses. Since prior to getting the New Flyers, it was popularly said that CTA had about 2100, there hasn't been the fleet increase thought, but maybe that is the result of scrapping both the junk and the junk that backed it up, maybe a few 3 for 4s, and the end of 3 Track.

Do you have a new prediction for how many 6000s would be left in September 2009? Since the 6000s are not the primary series biting the dust at the moment.

[Busjack]

Do you have a new prediction for how many 6000s would be left in September 2009? Since the 6000s are not the primary series biting the dust at the moment.

First, the part you quoted was putting at issue whether BRT buses would replace 6000s. At the moment, there are not any BRT buses. Maybe tomorrow, there will be a different story.

Second, I'll pick up on jajuan's statement:

What post are you speaking of because I don't see that anywhere? It is mentioned in the Buses section that the problems plaguing these buses and a number of them dropping off the roster could indicate a possible early retirement, but it goes on to state that there is no official word yet from CTA regarding their status. That's a big jump to they could be gone by end of summer....

Especially since government on all levels is acting irrationally lately, I'm not going to make predictions. It may be 6 months, or if there aren't FTA waivers, it may be 2014, when the buses are 19 years old, if CTA intends a snow job by telling the feds that it is replacing buses that have exceeded their service life, but is instead keeping them and replacing ones that haven't. That might fly for a few buses (such as Pace 6047 and 6173), but not 226. The only thing that is more likely than not to happen is that, as I said this morning, FG and 74 are going to be stuck with the old junk. But, again, maybe the stimulus bill will give them more stimulus. (But then why was Carole Brown begging for only 58 buses? And why has CTA been hush-hush about that and the contract for up to 900 more?)

My observations this morning that there seemed no point in continued bus deliveries to 103, plus that the 60DELFs were not being used as represented as 3 for 4 replacements indicate that we are dealing with the unpredictable, and probably irrational, especially if the speculation and inferences drawn in the What's left of the 7500s topic bear fruit. That's not saying that they won't. But I would sure like to see how the CTA is going to make up the $72.5 million this projected debacle would cost, if the inferences made in that topic eventuate. As a taxpayer, I sure don't want to hear that state taxes have to be raised for a Capital Bill to pay for it. The bus swapping mentioned by trainman is peanuts compared to this. However, I rather not foam further until there is (1) better confirmation and (2) a more rational explanation.

Basically, then, given that uncertainty, I am not going to be like some and say what WILL happen. Sorry that I didn't take your bait.

[cta 5555]

First, the part you quoted was putting at issue whether BRT buses would replace 6000s. At the moment, there are not any BRT buses. Maybe tomorrow, there will be a different story.

Second, I'll pick up on jajuan's statement:

Especially since government on all levels is acting irrationally lately, I'm not going to make predictions. It may be 6 months, or if there aren't FTA waivers, it may be 2014, when the buses are 19 years old, if CTA intends a snow job by telling the feds that it is replacing buses that have exceeded their service life, but is instead keeping them and replacing ones that haven't. That might fly for a few buses (such as Pace 6047 and 6173), but not 226. The only thing that is more likely than not to happen is that, as I said this morning, FG and 74 are going to be stuck with the old junk. But, again, maybe the stimulus bill will give them more stimulus. (But then why was Carole Brown begging for only 58 buses? And why has CTA been hush-hush about that and the contract for up to 900 more?)

My observations this morning that there seemed no point in continued bus deliveries to 103, plus that the 60DELFs were not being used as represented as 3 for 4 replacements indicate that we are dealing with the unpredictable, and probably irrational, especially if the speculation and inferences drawn in the What's left of the 7500s topic bear fruit. That's not saying that they won't. But I would sure like to see how the CTA is going to make up the $72.5 million this projected debacle would cost, if the inferences made in that topic eventuate. As a taxpayer, I sure don't want to hear that state taxes have to be raised for a Capital Bill to pay for it. The bus swapping mentioned by trainman is peanuts compared to this. However, I rather not foam further until there is (1) better confirmation and (2) a more rational explanation.

Basically, then, given that uncertainty, I am not going to be like some and say what WILL happen. Sorry that I didn't take your bait.

And here we go, Calling something junk becuase its old. It will never end on this bored!

But Busjack must know everthing in life with his 3000+ post on here!

[Busjack]

And here we go, Calling something junk becuase its old. It will never end on this bored!

But Busjack must know everthing in life with his 3000+ post on here!

Maybe I'll take back that perjorative comment. However, do you have anything with respect to the substance of my (admitted) rant? Especially the $72.5 million in government waste part? Or the shuffling part?

And they will certainly be old junk if they are around in 2014, as a result of this fiasco, which was the context of my remark (and certainly the implication from BusExpert's question).