More Bus Moves

[qwantae]

North Park usually trades its artic when they get to much mileage since thery're used so much, and 103rds aren't.

That explains why 103rd was loosing some Artic's because only 3 of their routes (6,14 and 192) uses them. So some of 103rd Artics using North Park or Kedzie Routes to get more mileage in them.

[cta5658]

That explains why 103rd was loosing some Artic's because only 3 of their routes (6,14 and 192) uses them. So some of 103rd Artics using North Park or Kedzie Routes to get more mileage in them.

Here's a bus trade suggestion: 103rd's 4059-4104 for NP's 4150-4207. Oh and 103rd's Artics also use the #169 69th-UPS Express

[busfan2847]

<br /><br /><br />

Is this a temporary thing or permanent because I passed by both and they still had 'P' stickers

Logically surely this was a temporary event associated with the Dave Mathews band event at South Works from 7/8 to 7/11?

[Sam92]

Here's a bus trade suggestion: 103rd's 4059-4104 for NP's 4150-4207. Oh and 103rd's Artics also use the #169 69th-UPS Express

Nice idea. Helps bring more artics to 103rd but made you can do some type of even/odd split with that group because both garages would need the extra space provided with that group of artics

[artthouwill]

North Park usually trades its artic when they get to much mileage since thery're used so much, and 103rds aren't.

If you look at the 147 route, it is about 10 - 11 miles one way with the 146 being about 9 - 10 miles one way. The 14 route is about 13 miles or so one way the 26 is about 16 - 18 miles one way. The 6, which is the heaviest route, is around the 10 to 11 mile area, and also has the most hours of any artic express route in the city. What it could be is that 103rd doesn't rely much on artics at all during the weekend (save the 6 express) where NP uses artics on the 146 every day, and the 151 and 22 on weekends. If I am not mistaken, NP has nearly as many artics as 40 ft buses, or at least the largest ratio of 40 footers to artics (3 40t buses for every artic. K might be 4 to 1 and 103rd might be 5 to 1). Even K uses its artics on weekends on other routes like 12, 151, 82, 52, and 50. I think the only other 103rd routes I've seen an artic on are the 15 and maybe the 34, but never on the weekend for either. That is why it was surprising to see NP artics working the 87th shuttle to the DMB concert last weekend.

[jajuan]

If you look at the 147 route, it is about 10 - 11 miles one way with the 146 being about 9 - 10 miles one way. The 14 route is about 13 miles or so one way the 26 is about 16 - 18 miles one way. The 6, which is the heaviest route, is around the 10 to 11 mile area, and also has the most hours of any artic express route in the city. What it could be is that 103rd doesn't rely much on artics at all during the weekend (save the 6 express) where NP uses artics on the 146 every day, and the 151 and 22 on weekends. If I am not mistaken, NP has nearly as many artics as 40 ft buses, or at least the largest ratio of 40 footers to artics (3 40t buses for every artic. K might be 4 to 1 and 103rd might be 5 to 1). Even K uses its artics on weekends on other routes like 12, 151, 82, 52, and 50. I think the only other 103rd routes I've seen an artic on are the 15 and maybe the 34, but never on the weekend for either. That is why it was surprising to see NP artics working the 87th shuttle to the DMB concert last weekend.

Actually the 14 does use mainly artics on the weekend and the 26 rarely uses them compared to 40 footers, but the way artics are assigned on the 26 does still uphold your point that it's a surprise to see NP artics shoring up service on the south side over those from 103rd. The only times I've seen the 14 not use many artics on weekends in recent months has been on some Sundays here and there. Also Kedzie now rarely assigns artics to the 82 on weekends. For that matter, Kedzie rarely assigns artics to the 82 even on a weekday and it hasn't really put artics on the 52 since the NABI days except for extremely rare fluke instances where an artic instead of a 1000 was the next available bus ready to operate a 52 run. As for the 50, that route mainly belongs to NP though from what others have reported Kedzie still has a small number of weekday runs. Kedzie's weekend artic use now mainly goes toward operating the 12, 19 for weekend United Center events, the 124 at times and the Kedzie 151 trips. There are also some periods where the 10 might get an artic or two during the weekend. The 130 at times has also used artics on weekends moreso than 40 footers.

[Sam92]

Actually the 14 does use mainly artics on the weekend and the 26 rarely uses them compared to 40 footers, but the way artics are assigned on the 26 does still uphold your point that it's a surprise to see NP artics shoring up service on the south side over those from 103rd. The only times I've seen the 14 not use many artics on weekends in recent months has been on some Sundays here and there. Also Kedzie now rarely assigns artics to the 82 on weekends. For that matter, Kedzie rarely assigns artics to the 82 even on a weekday and it hasn't really put artics on the 52 since the NABI days except for extremely rare fluke instances where an artic instead of a 1000 was the next available bus ready to operate a 52 run. As for the 50, that route mainly belongs to NP though from what others have reported Kedzie still has a small number of weekday runs. Kedzie's weekend artic use now mainly goes toward operating the 12, 19 for weekend United Center events, the 124 at times and the Kedzie 151 trips. There are also some periods where the 10 might get an artic or two during the weekend. The 130 at times has also used artics on weekends moreso than 40 footers.

103rd has relied heavily on aritcs even in the weekends it's just that these last trades have left them with an artic shortage which is why there are so many 1000's popping up on express routes even in the rush. Last year, 6, 14, 15 almost always had them even on weekends and artics even popped up on routes such as 95E and other Dan Ryan routes. Also about the DMB, 77th operated the shuttle trips. The North Park artics in question were on the 6, 14 and 192 those few days when they were spotted

[artthouwill]

103rd has relied heavily on aritcs even in the weekends it's just that these last trades have left them with an artic shortage which is why there are so many 1000's popping up on express routes even in the rush. Last year, 6, 14, 15 almost always had them even on weekends and artics even popped up on routes such as 95E and other Dan Ryan routes. Also about the DMB, 77th operated the shuttle trips. The North Park artics in question were on the 6, 14 and 192 those few days when they were spotted

Unless those buses were loans, 77th has no artics to operate. So are you saying 103rd operated the shuttle using loaners from NP?

[Sam92]

Unless those buses were loans, 77th has no artics to operate. So are you saying 103rd operated the shuttle using loaners from NP?

Never said there were artics for the DMB. 77th used its normal equipment the concert. What I was saying is that last week, #4126 and #4187 had popped up on the 6, 14 and 192.

[artthouwill]

Never said there were artics for the DMB. 77th used its normal equipment the concert. What I was saying is that last week, #4126 and #4187 had popped up on the 6, 14 and 192.

I personally saw artics loading at the 87th Red Line station. So while 77th may have had some of its normal equipment out there, there was definitely some supplemental service from somewhere else, most likely 103rd.

[Sam92]

I personally saw artics loading at the 87th Red Line station. So while 77th may have had some of its normal equipment out there, there was definitely some supplemental service from somewhere else, most likely 103rd.

Oh. Guess I wasnt on 87th long enough. Must not have been many from 103rd because #4126 and #4187 were the only loans from North Park

[pudgym29]

I don't think Forest Glen garage needs articulated buses assigned there. But, as this attached photograph (taken at 25:43 hours Wednesday night | Thursday morning) of #6741 westbound on #77 Belmont at Central Park shows; some of its late night runs need an articulated bus from somewhere.

The method for dealing with this I think is simple. Some late evening #151 Sheridan artics should be run to the Belmont | Halsted terminal, at which point they switch to one westbound run on #77 Belmont to Cumberland (or Octavia), and then a short-turn run east to Kimball Blue Line "L" stop. From which they deadhead on Kimball to either North Park, or Kedzie garage.

I grant you, the crush load on #77 Belmont was a reaction to the Blue Line being single-tracked between La Salle and Grand stations. (When will this track work be finally completed?) My NWB train ran express from Lake to Belmont, but it didn't really run that fast. We stopped completely at three spots along the run. (Why? Were the signals similarly out of order?)

But Belmont has sufficient late-evening riders that, if the Authority is not going to decrease the interval between buses, it needs 60-footers making these runs.

[Sam92]

I don't think Forest Glen garage needs articulated buses assigned there. But, as this attached photograph (taken at 25:43 hours Wednesday night | Thursday morning) of #6741 westbound on #77 Belmont at Central Park shows; some of its late night runs need an articulated bus from somewhere.

The method for dealing with this I think is simple. Some late evening #151 Sheridan artics should be run to the Belmont | Halsted terminal, at which point they switch to one westbound run on #77 Belmont to Cumberland (or Octavia), and then a short-turn run east to Kimball Blue Line "L" stop. From which they deadhead on Kimball to either North Park, or Kedzie garage.

I grant you, the crush load on #77 Belmont was a reaction to the Blue Line being single-tracked between La Salle and Grand stations. (When will this track work be finally completed?) My NWB train ran express from Lake to Belmont, but it didn't really run that fast. We stopped completely at three spots along the run. (Why? Were the signals similarly out of order?)

But Belmont has sufficient late-evening riders that, if the Authority is not going to decrease the interval between buses, it needs 60-footers making these runs.

If this is a late night thing, maybe you can let Kedzie take up a few more of the runs with the artics that are finished with the 145, 148, 156, etc? Those routes finish pretty early and can deadhead from Kedzie up to Kimball Blue Line after a slight rest to assist with the loads.

[sw4400]

I don't think Forest Glen garage needs articulated buses assigned there. But, as this attached photograph (taken at 25:43 hours Wednesday night | Thursday morning) of #6741 westbound on #77 Belmont at Central Park shows; some of its late night runs need an articulated bus from somewhere.

The method for dealing with this I think is simple. Some late evening #151 Sheridan artics should be run to the Belmont | Halsted terminal, at which point they switch to one westbound run on #77 Belmont to Cumberland (or Octavia), and then a short-turn run east to Kimball Blue Line "L" stop. From which they deadhead on Kimball to either North Park, or Kedzie garage.

I have talked about this before pudgym29. This is why I won't ride the #77, especially after it stops at the Kimball Blue Line. It seems like half the city is crammed onto one bus(I was on Flxible #6XXX at the time, and that operator let the seats fill, let the aisle fill, and even let the people stand in the stairwell, inhibiting the ability to use that passenger-side mirror and also make boarding/departing the bus a nightmare). I don't think Articulateds will solve this problem, but a skip stop, like a 77A that goes to the Kimball Blue Line, then continues West to Cumberland/East to Lake Shore and a 77B that goes West and East to both final destinations, but doesn't stop at the Kimball Blue Line.

[Busjack]

... some of its late night runs need an articulated bus from somewhere. ....

Cutting through to this, at least Belmont has enough passenger load or productivity to support artics., as I responded to jajuan when he asked where to put them.

[BusHunter]

I don't think Forest Glen garage needs articulated buses assigned there. But, as this attached photograph (taken at 25:43 hours Wednesday night | Thursday morning) of #6741 westbound on #77 Belmont at Central Park shows; some of its late night runs need an articulated bus from somewhere.

The method for dealing with this I think is simple. Some late evening #151 Sheridan artics should be run to the Belmont | Halsted terminal, at which point they switch to one westbound run on #77 Belmont to Cumberland (or Octavia), and then a short-turn run east to Kimball Blue Line "L" stop. From which they deadhead on Kimball to either North Park, or Kedzie garage.

I grant you, the crush load on #77 Belmont was a reaction to the Blue Line being single-tracked between La Salle and Grand stations. (When will this track work be finally completed?) My NWB train ran express from Lake to Belmont, but it didn't really run that fast. We stopped completely at three spots along the run. (Why? Were the signals similarly out of order?)

But Belmont has sufficient late-evening riders that, if the Authority is not going to decrease the interval between buses, it needs 60-footers making these runs.

Belmont gets high volume crowds pretty much along the entire line. It's alot like a #22, you can get massive overcrowding at Red line then get it again at Blue. Artics would be a pretty good idea, but they would have to come out of NP or K. We might see that soon anyway, if any service gets cut. Probably what really needs to get done at CTA is an order for more artics to replace these Novas when the time comes. This way 77th could get some and some more of the major routes could get some. The #9 since there is no longer an X bus has major overcrowding SB which starts at the blue line and just builds through the UIC/county hospital medical district,it then gets hit hard again at the Orange line. They used to have extra service SB there. I don't know if they still do or not. But 74th has the same problem as Fg. The only way this could be done would be alot of sharing between garages like Ashland could be a 77th/74th garage route or the 79th could be that as well. This way they can mix a few artics in with the 40 footers so crowds wouldn't be so bad. At least it's a plan.

[Sam92]

Belmont gets high volume crowds pretty much along the entire line. It's alot like a #22, you can get massive overcrowding at Red line then get it again at Blue. Artics would be a pretty good idea, but they would have to come out of NP or K. We might see that soon anyway, if any service gets cut. Probably what really needs to get done at CTA is an order for more artics to replace these Novas when the time comes. This way 77th could get some and some more of the major routes could get some. The #9 since there is no longer an X bus has major overcrowding SB which starts at the blue line and just builds through the UIC/county hospital medical district,it then gets hit hard again at the Orange line. They used to have extra service SB there. I don't know if they still do or not. But 74th has the same problem as Fg. The only way this could be done would be alot of sharing between garages like Ashland could be a 77th/74th garage route or the 79th could be that as well. This way they can mix a few artics in with the 40 footers so crowds wouldn't be so bad. At least it's a plan.

Well for right now, for the over night crowds we can use the artics that are finishing routes such as 145, 148, 156 etc and send them to the 77 for a few hours during those times.

[Busjack]

I was with you (or you were with me) up to this point.

...But 74th has the same problem as Fg. The only way this could be done would be alot of sharing between garages..

74th has a bigger problem. At least FG consists of two open lots, and while I don't see a capacity listed any more on the Garages page, I have the impression that FG previously had more buses in the yards than currently. Certainly the case with NP. FG would of course need the same things as NP, with regard to buses with capacitors or outlets to recharge hybrids.

One the other hand, 74th apparently is another cookie-cutter 250 bus capacity garage, similar to K and 103. Unlike the other two, it doesn't seem to have any outside storage space (the NABI holding area at 103 or the side parking lot at K mentioned by jajuan). Since, at least from the street, it seems like a completely closed facility, once it has reached its limit, that's it. Hence, the only way it could get artics is if the kind of doomsday you are implying for next year results in fewer artics received per Nova replaced.

[BusHunter]

I was with you (or you were with me) up to this point.

74th has a bigger problem. At least FG consists of two open lots, and while I don't see a capacity listed any more on the Garages page, I have the impression that FG previously had more buses in the yards than currently. Certainly the case with NP. FG would of course need the same things as NP, with regard to buses with capacitors or outlets to recharge hybrids.

One the other hand, 74th apparently is another cookie-cutter 250 bus capacity garage, similar to K and 103. Unlike the other two, it doesn't seem to have any outside storage space (the NABI holding area at 103 or the side parking lot at K mentioned by jajuan). Since, at least from the street, it seems like a completely closed facility, once it has reached its limit, that's it. Hence, the only way it could get artics is if the kind of doomsday you are implying for next year results in fewer artics received per Nova replaced.

I'm moreless thinking in terms of maintainance like 60 foot bus bays or lifts. 74th and Fg can store the buses but can't maintain them. That cancels them out. Now they could make #77 or #79 or #9 share with Artic garages. For example, they could shift extra 40 footers not used at Fg to serve 40 foot routes like a #11 or #155 or #96 which could use some Optimas. They would have to do some major rescheduling at pick time, but they've been changing alot at the pick times recently anyway. It could be done with what they have now, but on a limited basis mostly in the offpeak timeframe. Buy some buses and they could use them in the rush. This would make certain garages mostly artic others just the opposite. It just may help with future budgets saving money on operations by doing more with less. At least it would keep more complete route cuts off the table.

[Busjack]

I'm moreless thinking in terms of maintainance like 60 foot bus bays or lifts. 74th and Fg can store the buses but can't maintain them. ...

I get that point.

The rest of the discussion brings up why 77th was restricted to about 250 buses when the first big shift was made (at the time 29 was sent to 103). Supposedly that has capacity for about 400 between the barns. Is there some sort of building safety issue or the like with the oldest barns?

[BusHunter]

I get that point.

The rest of the discussion brings up why 77th was restricted to about 250 buses when the first big shift was made (at the time 29 was sent to 103). Supposedly that has capacity for about 400 between the barns. Is there some sort of building safety issue or the like with the oldest barns?

Not that I know of. Most of the reason for 77th not having artics now is because they are short from 226 NABI's to 208 NF's. 18-30 60 footers would be around what they would've had, but CTA's answer to this problem is just to make all artic routes like #6 become 103rd. What might have been interesting would be making #3 a 103rd route, but then 77th would have to most likely pick up the 100's.

[Busjack]

Not that I know of. Most of the reason for 77th not having artics now is because they are short from 226 NABI's to 208 NF's. 18-30 60 footers would be around what they would've had, but CTA's answer to this problem is just to make all artic routes like #6 become 103rd. What might have been interesting would be making #3 a 103rd route, but then 77th would have to most likely pick up the 100's.

I was more interested in why routes were taken out of there entirely, rather than it not having artics. For instance, there doesn't seem any justification for taking 29 State (which went immediately past 77th) from 77 to 103, even if now 74 and 77 garages are partially filling in. If I have current bus allocations correct. transferring 95W from 77 to 103 might also be questionable, although less so.

The best I could tell, the only justification so far is a compulsion that each garage gets 250 buses, unless there is really something wrong with 77's buildings.

[Sam92]

Not that I know of. Most of the reason for 77th not having artics now is because they are short from 226 NABI's to 208 NF's. 18-30 60 footers would be around what they would've had, but CTA's answer to this problem is just to make all artic routes like #6 become 103rd. What might have been interesting would be making #3 a 103rd route, but then 77th would have to most likely pick up the 100's.

I would see 77th taking the 30, 71, and 2 completely in that scenario seeing as they as closer to the garage.

[artthouwill]

I was more interested in why routes were taken out of there entirely, rather than it not having artics. For instance, there doesn't seem any justification for taking 29 State (which went immediately past 77th) from 77 to 103, even if now 74 and 77 garages are partially filling in. If I have current bus allocations correct. transferring 95W from 77 to 103 might also be questionable, although less so.

The best I could tell, the only justification so far is a compulsion that each garage gets 250 buses, unless there is really something wrong with 77's buildings.

I thought the original reason given was to make the runs more equitable among all garages (this was when Archer was still operating). Perhaps now they need more scrap bus space and 77th is the place. REmember Archer is pretty old and there may be building issues there. Besides that, I also question why so many routes that could operate from 77th don't even if they have the room, and Kedzie has no room whatsoever.

[Sam92]

I thought the original reason given was to make the runs more equitable among all garages (this was when Archer was still operating). Perhaps now they need more scrap bus space and 77th is the place. REmember Archer is pretty old and there may be building issues there. Besides that, I also question why so many routes that could operate from 77th don't even if they have the room, and Kedzie has no room whatsoever.

Seems like the 8 would be better off at 77th than Kedzie seeing as the terminal is right down the street from the garage