Crowded Buses

[berthapegues]

OMG ! I was on the 63 63rd St bus the other night and the bus was packed from front to back ! If a bus is EVER that crowded why don't the bus drivers pass them up ? Not to sound mean, just show the 100% and keep going. eh ?

[Busjack]

Well, like, when about 20% of the capacity was taken out of the bus system in February, but Rodriguez said ridership wasn't that affected, something has to give. Unless there was a bunching situation with two empties right behind (and you didn't allege that), that's life in the city.

[sw4400]

OMG ! I was on the 63 63rd St bus the other night and the bus was packed from front to back ! If a bus is EVER that crowded why don't the bus drivers pass them up ? Not to sound mean, just show the 100% and keep going. eh ?

You think that's bad, try riding the 77 Belmont WB before you turn down Kimball to head over to the Blue Line Station. I rode that route once on a 6000-Series Flxible, and NEVER AGAIN!!! When we got there, it seemed like all of Chicago got on that one lone bus, filling all the seats, the rear, front, and even the STAIRWELL!!! That's overkill, and a safety issue, as the operator couldn't see out of the passenger side mirror!!!

[cta_44499_FG]

You think that's bad, try riding the 77 Belmont WB before you turn down Kimball to head over to the Blue Line Station. I rode that route once on a 6000-Series Flxible, and NEVER AGAIN!!! When we got there, it seemed like all of Chicago got on that one lone bus, filling all the seats, the rear, front, and even the STAIRWELL!!! That's overkill, and a safety issue, as the operator couldn't see out of the passenger side mirror!!!

I can do better. Try a northbound 22 Clark leaving the loop. Mind you...the bus hasn't even reached Walton over to NB Clark street yet.

[Guest]

You think that's bad, try riding the 77 Belmont WB before you turn down Kimball to head over to the Blue Line Station. I rode that route once on a 6000-Series Flxible, and NEVER AGAIN!!! When we got there, it seemed like all of Chicago got on that one lone bus, filling all the seats, the rear, front, and even the STAIRWELL!!! That's overkill, and a safety issue, as the operator couldn't see out of the passenger side mirror!!!

Im a veteran of the #77 Belmont route. It is always busy inbound in the morning and outbound in the evening.

Always packed, traffic up the "A" and not to mention four high schools to contend with. But it was one of my favorite routes. I always enjoyed working Belmont even on saturday it was just as busy as a friday eve.

[dann]

OMG ! I was on the 63 63rd St bus the other night and the bus was packed from front to back ! If a bus is EVER that crowded why don't the bus drivers pass them up ? Not to sound mean, just show the 100% and keep going. eh ?

Every now and then I go on the 143 and those buses are always SRO. Maybe the CTA needs to go back to the route sharing we saw last spring, in which multiple garages supplied buses for routes like the 143.

[rotjohns]

OMG ! I was on the 63 63rd St bus the other night and the bus was packed from front to back ! If a bus is EVER that crowded why don't the bus drivers pass them up ? Not to sound mean, just show the 100% and keep going. eh ?

That's actually somewhat surprising because I see the 63rd street buses a lot and never see that bus crowded like that.

[BusHunter]

probably about the worst crowded buses I've ever seen were when I was going to Lane using the #152. Sometimes they would have a half day and start school at 10:00 AM. Well the CTA wasn't informed of this and would run no school runs/extras at that time. They would get these mass crowds of people standing on the corner. Maybe 25 or 30 people standing at Pulaski, Blue line, Kimball or Milwaukee. You would basically have to wait until they caught up to the rush and you would be standing out there about an hour sometimes waiting for that to happen. The more east you were the longer you waited as more buses would pass you up.

[rotjohns]

probably about the worst crowded buses I've ever seen were when I was going to Lane using the #152. Sometimes they would have a half day and start school at 10:00 AM. Well the CTA wasn't informed of this and would run no school runs/extras at that time. They would get these mass crowds of people standing on the corner. Maybe 25 or 30 people standing at Pulaski, Blue line, Kimball or Milwaukee. You would basically have to wait until they caught up to the rush and you would be standing out there about an hour sometimes waiting for that to happen. The more east you were the longer you waited as more buses would pass you up.

The last time I was on Addison a few weeks ago, I saw nothing but 40-footers. When the 60-foot Nabis were running, you would see them frequently on 152. Do you see the 60-footers running today to help with the crowds?

[BusHunter]

The last time I was on Addison a few weeks ago, I saw nothing but 40-footers. When the 60-foot Nabis were running, you would see them frequently on 152. Do you see the 60-footers running today to help with the crowds?

Yes they run. Unless like I say in my story Lane changes there startup time or end time. They had a student body of around 4500 when I went there. That's a tall order for regular service if you figure about 30 to 40 percent of those may use the #152. As far as Cub games there mostly out there an hour before and after games. Alot of early birds board at Metra's milwaukee north line stop at Kilbourn and will overcrowd a 40 footer EB from there as well as the later Cubs game/bar crowd on the return trip back.

[rmadisonwi]

Every now and then I go on the 143 and those buses are always SRO. Maybe the CTA needs to go back to the route sharing we saw last spring, in which multiple garages supplied buses for routes like the 143.

Route sharing doesn't have anything to do with route capacity. If there are ten trips on a route, it doesn't matter if five of them are from one garage and five are from another garage, or all ten are from the same garage.

[qwantae]

I'll go for #79-79th as the Most WORST crowded and rowdy bus routes in the whole system. Very nuff said!

[rotjohns]

I'll go for #79-79th as the Most WORST crowded and rowdy bus routes in the whole system. Very nuff said!

Rowdy, I would agree. Crowded? Probably so, especially at the high school on 79th/Pulaski. But that's a route that is horrid of bus bunching. When a second bus is needed, it doesn't come, but when it's midday when there are no crowds, 2-3 buses come at once. I know the 60-footers are not at 79th garage anymore, but that's a route that had great success with the 60-footers when they ran and they sure need them now.

[artthouwill]

Rowdy, I would agree. Crowded? Probably so, especially at the high school on 79th/Pulaski. But that's a route that is horrid of bus bunching. When a second bus is needed, it doesn't come, but when it's midday when there are no crowds, 2-3 buses come at once. I know the 60-footers are not at 79th garage anymore, but that's a route that had great success with the 60-footers when they ran and they sure need them now.

The entire route is crowded, with the major transfer points being at Jeffery, the Red Line, Western, and Ford City. If I remember correctly, this route was #1 in CTA ridership, even beating out #151 Sheridan. Unlike Sheridan where only half the buses go all the way through, most of 79th buses go all the way to Ford City. Then factor in the rail crossing at 79th & Lawndale (which leads into a railyard), and a stopped train there leads to your bus bunching. I've seen backups last a minimum of 1/2 hour and sometimes much more. That means for a significant stretch of time, there is no service between Lawndale and Western and only Western short turn buses are operating eastbound from Western. Note that even routing the 75th bus via the 79th Red Line station does NOT alleviate overcrowding on 79th.

The funny thing is that the 77th garage keeps LOSING buses. Perhaps CTA should pull those 77th buses that operate 103rd routes or elsewhere and put them on 79th street. And as I suggested in another thread, CTA needs to swap out those little used Optimas for some of Pace's 40 ft buses. Maybe 103rd or 74th can also run suppelementals on this route.

[Busjack]

...

The funny thing is that the 77th garage keeps LOSING buses. Perhaps CTA should pull those 77th buses that operate 103rd routes or elsewhere and put them on 79th street. And as I suggested in another thread, CTA needs to swap out those little used Optimas for some of Pace's 40 ft buses. Maybe 103rd or 74th can also run suppelementals on this route.

Since I gave you two -1s, I'll take my own advice and tell you why. If it is just the number of buses, after the layoffs there wouldn't be anyone to drive them, unless you are saying to take more service away from the 103 areas. Now, if you were saying that 77th's former articulateds should be taken off 103 routes and put on 79th, there might be an argument, but you would then have to address relative crowding on 79 vs 14.

As far as your Pace idea, based on what supposedly is going on in Waukegan and Academy, Pace has too many 30 footers, thanks to the stimulus and service cuts, and not enough 40 footers. I assume there will be enough bus shifts to work that out, but I am sure that CTA doesn't want what it would characterize as "Pace junk from a junk manufacturer we are suing."

BTW, there is no indication that the Optimas are being used on 79, nor that a higher capacity bus is needed where they are used. Further BTW, with regard to bus bunching, look at this reading, where apparently all the buses are stuck at 79th and Vincennes (another pulldown has two buses east of there).

[artthouwill]

Since I gave you two -1s, I'll take my own advice and tell you why. If it is just the number of buses, after the layoffs there wouldn't be anyone to drive them, unless you are saying to take more service away from the 103 areas. Now, if you were saying that 77th's former articulateds should be taken off 103 routes and put on 79th, there might be an argument, but you would then have to address relative crowding on 79 vs 14.

As far as your Pace idea, based on what supposedly is going on in Waukegan and Academy, Pace has too many 30 footers, thanks to the stimulus and service cuts, and not enough 40 footers. I assume there will be enough bus shifts to work that out, but I am sure that CTA doesn't want what it would characterize as "Pace junk from a junk manufacturer we are suing."

BTW, there is no indication that the Optimas are being used on 79, nor that a higher capacity bus is needed where they are used.

I never said Optimas were being used on 79th. But CTA has buses it was not using (even before the last cuts). It isn't necessarily that Pace doesn't have enough 40 ft buses, it is a matter of WHERE they are using them. Pace route 320 will NEVER need a 40 ft bus, but it always has one. Same for Rt 319 and 305. Yet those 35ft NABIs wind up on the most crowded routes. Perhaps there still is a shortage of 40ft buses, but I'm saying the situation is made worse by poor fleet allocation in the case of Pace.

My only reasoning for the swap of Optimas and 40 ft buses (which could be Orions and not necessarily NABIs) was due to their age and Pace needing or wanting to replace them anyway. They would receive relatively new low mileage buses, and even if CTA sits those buses they receive, they are better spares and emergency equipment than Optimas.

[Busjack]

...

My only reasoning for the swap of Optimas and 40 ft buses (which could be Orions and not necessarily NABIs) was due to their age and Pace needing or wanting to replace them anyway. They would receive relatively new low mileage buses, and even if CTA sits those buses they receive, they are better spares and emergency equipment than Optimas.

Which won't happen (I would bet) until mid 2012 at the earliest. At that time, if CTA really wanted them, they could buy or lease them, similar to what they did with the 700s and 4916s.

Of course, CTA currently has a barnload of 6000s as "spares."

[artthouwill]

Of course, CTA currently has a barnload of 6000s as "spares."

[Sam92]

The entire route is crowded, with the major transfer points being at Jeffery, the Red Line, Western, and Ford City. If I remember correctly, this route was #1 in CTA ridership, even beating out #151 Sheridan. Unlike Sheridan where only half the buses go all the way through, most of 79th buses go all the way to Ford City. Then factor in the rail crossing at 79th & Lawndale (which leads into a railyard), and a stopped train there leads to your bus bunching. I've seen backups last a minimum of 1/2 hour and sometimes much more. That means for a significant stretch of time, there is no service between Lawndale and Western and only Western short turn buses are operating eastbound from Western. Note that even routing the 75th bus via the 79th Red Line station does NOT alleviate overcrowding on 79th.

The funny thing is that the 77th garage keeps LOSING buses. Perhaps CTA should pull those 77th buses that operate 103rd routes or elsewhere and put them on 79th street. And as I suggested in another thread, CTA needs to swap out those little used Optimas for some of Pace's 40 ft buses. Maybe 103rd or 74th can also run suppelementals on this route.

Sorry to bring this topic back up, but maybe Kedzie or North Park should send some artics towards 77th. I mean, it looks like many of the routes from those two garages need artics during rush hour. Other than that, they just run around half filled most of the time vs. south side routes that have weekend crowds. Even the 151's don't really need to be fully artic; just the Belmont runs since those are where the heaviest loads are.

[CURRENTZ_09]

You guys complain about less service try having your saturday service run like sunday service then experiencing overcrowding during service hours due to route reductions and service cuts SHAME CTA RIDERS on complaining become a ride MCTS rider then complain!!!!!!

[Wolfman]

Back to the original question:

If a bus is EVER that crowded why don't the bus drivers pass them up ? Not to sound mean, just show the 100% and keep going. eh ?

Here's why:

CTA has (for a very long, long time) held a standard rule that a bus operator should NEVER pass up a bus stop.

Never ever.

Yes, I agree that sounds stupid, but it's CTA policy. Break the policy, and you get disciplined. Even if it's just a slap on the wrist, it's a violation that goes on your record, and stays there for three years.

Then, from the passengers point of view, many don't (and won't) believe that the bus is FULL, and that there is another bus following. They take down the number of the bus and file a complaint. You have to understand, CTA has always held the position that if and when a bus operator is called on the carpet for a complaint, the bus operator is always guilty until proven innocent (ask any bus operator on this forum). Also, understand that you have a number of supervisors, instructors, spotters, and mangers that FROWN upon seeing a bus operator do a pass-up, so many operators will fall in line and follow orders and stop block by block by block.

I know. It sucks.

The bus operator thinks it sucks as well.

What REALLY sucks is the following buses that can SEE your bus is full and running late, but if they "lay back", they don't have to do a lot of work either.

I hope my insight helped.

[Read as you ride]

If a bus is EVER that crowded why don't the bus drivers pass them up ? Not to sound mean, just show the 100% and keep going. eh ?

Agree with Wolfman!

If I remember correctly (it's been a long, long time!), we were told during instruction never to blow by bus stops with folks waiting, no matter how full our bus is. People get angry when they get passed up. They feel ignored and don't like waiting for the next bus. In most folks' minds, there's always room for one more inside a crowded bus.

We were told the correct solution is to stop, open the doors, and give the folks a chance to squeeze in until THEY decide they can't. Hopefully, when doing this causes you to run hopelessly late, your follower (who will be on your tail) will pull up behind you, stop, and give the folks a less crowded bus to board. Either that, or your follower, who is sympathetic to your plight, will go around you while you're stopped and make the next stop... and the two of you will play leapfrogging buses (except when someone needs to exit) all the way home. Doing that tends to even out the load and help maintain times.

[cta_44499_FG]

Either that, or your follower, who is sympathetic to your plight, will go around you while you're stopped and make the next stop... and the two of you will play leapfrogging buses (except when someone needs to exit) all the way home. Doing that tends to even out the load and help maintain times.

Hopefully, at some point a supervisor will see the street is screwed up enough and turn the late bus short of it's scheduled terminal to go back the other direction on time. Turning the 22 around at Arthur terminal or downtown at Kinzie or Madison, or even the 66 at Fairbanks (when scheduled to go to Navy Pier) are good examples of this.

[Wolfman]

Hopefully, at some point a supervisor will see the street is screwed up enough and turn the late bus short of it's scheduled terminal to go back the other direction on time.

Ha! It depends on the supervisor!

I'm often amazed at the vast number of "supervisors" that are lackluster and pretty content to hide in a booth, or in their cars, and never notice the same service disruptions day after day after day after day. They have the badge and the radio, and all they need now is the paycheck. Life is good.

Service restoration is not rocket science. Hell, even most bus operators have a clue.

It's kinda sad when the whole system is reduced to drones and zombies that are only there for the paycheck.

[pace2322]

Ha! It depends on the supervisor!

I'm often amazed at the vast number of "supervisors" that are lackluster and pretty content to hide in a booth, or in their cars, and never notice the same service disruptions day after day after day after day. They have the badge and the radio, and all they need now is the paycheck. Life is good.

Service restoration is not rocket science. Hell, even most bus operators have a clue.

It's kinda sad when the whole system is reduced to drones and zombies that are only there for the paycheck.

Thats right i was 56 late oneday on The 66 and past three supervisors and they didnt do anything. And btw there were about eight to ten of us all running. lol!