West Division - Changes & Restructuring

[NewFlyerMCI]

The CTA's part of the right of way is so narrow, it would probably require that those stations be closed for a year, because they would have to be completely reconstructed to add elevators.

Any rebuilt stations would probably end up looking like Granville, but a bit narrower.

[insert religious figure], no! Granville is narrow enough, and that's just one of many stations.

[artthouwill]

I guess it's bad timing for the implementation of the 307 change.  The 1st Ave ramps to/from  I-55 are being rebuilt and all exiting/entering traffic must use Harlem.  Specifically the SB ramps to 1st Ave are closed and apparently the ramps from southbound 1st Ave to I-55 in both directions are closed.  Therefore I would expect delays to the 307 between 47th and Archer. 

[andrethebusman]

I figured something like this had to be done, although the official traffic detour is via Touhy, instead of the bus detour via Belmont.

 

I still can't figure out what the bridge construction sequence problem was, except maybe IDOT didn't plan to dig out the road under the bridge until later, such as when the railroad was rerouted over the bridge.

 

And since the Yoirktown bus still eventually gets to Rosemont, it isn't a line cut type of split.

 

I also wonder what they did until today; run the Belmont route but double back to the cargo area?

​Basically the problem is that until the new track over the top is done, the old ground level track (which is right next to the bridge and actually a few inches HIGHER than York Rd) is still in use. When the old line is out of service, and removed, there will not be the need for the steep incline on the west side of the bridge to York Rd. A bigger question is why are truckers so stupid that 26 in ONE DAY tried to go thru a 12 foot clearance that was quite plainly marked?

[MetroShadow]

​Basically the problem is that until the new track over the top is done, the old ground level track (which is right next to the bridge and actually a few inches HIGHER than York Rd) is still in use. When the old line is out of service, and removed, there will not be the need for the steep incline on the west side of the bridge to York Rd. A bigger question is why are truckers so stupid that 26 in ONE DAY tried to go thru a 12 foot clearance that was quite plainly marked?

​I guess the answer to that question is "YOLO."

The real assumption is that the truckers didn't think that there would be a problem and decided that their trailers could clear it (obviously not the case).

[artthouwill]

​Basically the problem is that until the new track over the top is done, the old ground level track (which is right next to the bridge and actually a few inches HIGHER than York Rd) is still in use. When the old line is out of service, and removed, there will not be the need for the steep incline on the west side of the bridge to York Rd. A bigger question is why are truckers so stupid that 26 in ONE DAY tried to go thru a 12 foot clearance that was quite plainly marked?

​If that was a regular route for those drivers and they were used to clearing that viaduct in the past, there was no reason to think otherwise as being creatures of habit.  Yes I agree that there are truckers who not only don't pay attention to the clearance marker signs, they don't even know the height of their own trucks, especially with a trailer attached.  

Edited May 3, 2015 by artthouwill

[Busjack]

​If that was a regular route for those drivers and they were used to clearing that viaduct in the past, there was no reason to think otherwise as being creatures of habit.  Yes I agree that there are truckers who not only don't pay attention to the clearance marker signs, they don't even know the height of their own trucks, especially with a trailer attached.  

​It was a new viaduct. As Andre pointed out, the rails were and still are at grade.

Articles, such as this, indicate that it was closed, reopened, and then closed again.

[artthouwill]

​It was a new viaduct. As Andre pointed out, the rails were and still are at grade.

Articles, such as this, indicate that it was closed, reopened, and then closed again.

​You're right.  Still, if drivers are used to grade level trackage, they aren't thinking about viaducts.

[Busjack]

Pace has public hearing notices up for restructuring 305 and 315. The 315 one is to split it into 2 routes (presumably Austin and Ridgeland), and serve new destinations. The 305 one doesn't say what is intended, but I would bet it is to take into account changes to 315.

 

BTW, the April Minutes reflect that the board approved the 307 service changes, but  they haven't been implemented (current schedule dated 6/23/14)..

[artthouwill]

It seems like the 305 will get rerouted onto either Austin or Ridgeland between Roosevelt and Pershing.   My guess is 315 will remain on Ridgeland. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

Don't know if this is too feasible, but would a solution be to keep 305 as is, extend 320 SB along Austin to 35th and have the 315 remain on Ridgeland, extending the SB terminus to Morton College?

[Busjack]

Don't know if this is too feasible, but would a solution be to keep 305 as is, extend 320 SB along Austin to 35th and have the 315 remain on Ridgeland, extending the SB terminus to Morton College?

In that 320 is sometimes interlined with 315, something probably is going to happen one way or the other, such as when 320 was canceled on Saturday. However, based on these notices, not directly to 320. 320 was last restructured around Eisenhower Tower (Harrison-1st).

[MetroShadow]

I'm going to speculate that one of those routes is going to Midway  those routes will use Morton College as the pulse, and the 305 gets a new alignment if there's service north of Forest Park.

Edited July 17, 2015 by MetroShadow

[NewFlyerMCI]

I'm going to speculate that one of those routes is going to Midway, and the 305 gets a new alignment if there's service north of Forest Park.

On the Midway part, I say 315, since its closer to Harlem, but 305 might have a better chance, since there would be a larger passenger base at Forest Park and Harlem/Lake and 2 universities at certain times. Where would the alignment be for the 305 (there is service north to Harlem/Lake)?

[artthouwill]

There is only two weekday trips to Dominican University on the 305 so I don't expect any northern expansion of 305 service.   I suppose an extension to Midway via Morton College could happen,  but is there a market for that? 

[renardo870]

Is it possible that the 305 and the 318 could merge into one route? It might be a long route but it would be a 3500-3700+ ridership route and streamline service between Forest Park and Harlem/Lake.

[Busjack]

Is it possible that the 305 and the 318 could merge into one route? It might be a long route but it would be a 3500-3700+ ridership route and streamline service between Forest Park and Harlem/Lake.

But there is no indication that the demand south of Forest Park CTA matches that on 318, and you jeopardize schedule reliability on North Ave. by sending its buses into the snake that is 305. Might make more sense just to have a Roosevelt-Laramie bus.

[BusHunter]

Is it possible that the 305 and the 318 could merge into one route? It might be a long route but it would be a 3500-3700+ ridership route and streamline service between Forest Park and Harlem/Lake.

Why not just cut #305 to Forest Pk blue with no north segment? Then they could have the Roosevelt/Laramie bus.

Edited July 17, 2015 by BusHunter

[artthouwill]

There's a decent thru ridership that con next steps  Oak Park and Forest Park to the Walmart that would otherwise require a transfer.   

 

The other thing to consider is the 305 Sunday Routing Is Via Austin,  which could become a permanent routing. 

[renardo870]

maybe 301 Roosevelt can pick up 305 Forest Park to Morton College via Laramie/Austin.

 

Edited July 17, 2015 by renardo870
Morton College

[artthouwill]

maybe 301 Roosevelt can pick up 305 Forest Park to Morton College via Laramie/Austin.

 

No as 301 serves Roosevelt west of DesplaInes.

[Busjack]

No as 301 serves Roosevelt west of DesplaInes.

Theoretically, 301 and 305 could be merged, just like 320 goes west of Des Plaines to the Maybrook Courthouse and Eisenhower Tower. However, again there doesn't seem to be any point to joining a heavy route (301, which goes all the way to Wheaton) with a light route (305).

[jesi2282]

My predictions:

 

305: The only change I can see are changes to Sunday/Holiday service, the Austin to 35th portion would be discontinued since the new 315 will be serving that. Sunday service would basically run the same as Saturday, operating the full length of the route with 60 min headways.

 

315: The two new routes would use Morton College as the southern terminal, I'd imagine some interlining will be done at that location as well. Beside that, I don't see any bigger changes, I don't see either route going further south than 39th.

[NewFlyerMCI]

My predictions:

 

305: The only change I can see are changes to Sunday/Holiday service, the Austin to 35th portion would be discontinued since the new 315 will be serving that. Sunday service would basically run the same as Saturday, operating the full length of the route with 60 min headways.

 

315: The two new routes would use Morton College as the southern terminal, I'd imagine some interlining will be done at that location as well. Beside that, I don't see any bigger changes, I don't see either route going further south than 39th.

That kind of sounds like Ridgeland would be getting the axe. No prediction as to what happens to that?

[Busjack]

That kind of sounds like Ridgeland would be getting the axe. No prediction as to what happens to that?

No it doesn't. He said there would be two routes. As I presumed above, one would be Austin and the other Ridgeland. Also, as he indicates that some interlining may occur at Morton College, this might not be much different than the Niles proposal of 410/411 interlined at both ends, although the hearing notice for this change says Sunday service on Austin.

The 315 announcement said there would be new destinations, but didn't say which ones. It appears that this is the usual Pace situation that what will happen will be on the display boards at the hearing, rather than posted in advance.

Also note that the 305 announcement includes "and reduce service duplication in corridors where other Pace service is available or proposed to be added." Hence my conclusion that this is probably reactive to 315 and jesi's that this is related to the new Sunday service statement in the 315 notice.

[artthouwill]

What JesI said makes sense.   Still there are unanswered questions.   Currently there are some interlining between the 315 and the 320.  Since the 320 wasn't mentioned,  that eliminates combining the new Austin route with 320.   There's no sense in extending the Austin route north since the 91 covers that.  The 315 Ridgeland ends at the Green Line and could be extended to North and Narragansett to interline with 311, but with the 86, what sense would that make?   I dunno what new destinations can come out of this.   If the Austin and Ridgeland routes will interline, what is the sense of splitting the routes? 

Seemingly the 305 Sunday Routing will revert to the weekday route along Laramie.