CTA Bus Garage Rosters

[YoungBusLover]

  On 4/16/2022 at 2:27 PM, Busjack said:

If memory is correct (and it is), CTA made a big deal at the time that the structure of the last 400 was carbon steel wrapped in aluminum, instead of stainless steel. Looks like someone goofed, although it seems like the structure met the 12 year warranty.

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Yeah you're right about that because the structure of the frames on some these higher end 1700s and 1800s are definitely at there breaking point.  

[Bus1883]

  On 4/16/2022 at 4:50 PM, YoungBusLover said:

Yeah you're right about that because the structure of the frames on some these higher end 1700s and 1800s are definitely at there breaking point.  

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I wonder if it’s even possible to fix this issue?

[YoungBusLover]

  On 4/16/2022 at 7:50 PM, Bus1883 said:

I wonder if it’s even possible to fix this issue?

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Yeah it's very possible depending on how bad the damage is. Seeing though that these are mainly buses from NP and outdoor conditions play a role at weathering buses out quicker one could argue they would get the nod for rehabs first and then shipped off somewhere else once they're completed. 

[Shannoncvpi]

  On 4/16/2022 at 2:27 PM, Busjack said:

If memory is correct (and it is), CTA made a big deal at the time that the structure of the last 400 was carbon steel wrapped in aluminum, instead of stainless steel. Looks like someone goofed, although it seems like the structure met the 12 year warranty.

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Yea that's what you see alot of them in the yard also they are rusting out 

[Shannoncvpi]

  On 4/16/2022 at 7:58 PM, YoungBusLover said:

Yeah it's very possible depending on how bad the damage is. Seeing though that these are mainly buses from NP and outdoor conditions play a role at weathering buses out quicker one could argue they would get the nod for rehabs first and then shipped off somewhere else once they're completed. 

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Only time will tell if it gets fixed

[artthouwill]

  On 4/16/2022 at 7:58 PM, YoungBusLover said:

Yeah it's very possible depending on how bad the damage is. Seeing though that these are mainly buses from NP and outdoor conditions play a role at weathering buses out quicker one could argue they would get the nod for rehabs first and then shipped off somewhere else once they're completed. 

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Didn't ALL of the 1000 series New Flyer buses get a midlife rehab?  Interesting that the 6400s Didn't have a rust issue despite being outside at FG.  Are NP 4000s also suffering a rust issue?  

Maybe CTA needs to step up efforts to replace or rebuild NP and FG and possibly get going on getting garage number 8.  Otherwise CTAmight be forced to expedite the Nova order and maybe place one more diesel order for artics .  That kind of issue may lead CTA to consider the indoor garages for the new buses.  However leaving the buses at status quo may exacerbate the problem.

[Busjack]

  On 4/16/2022 at 11:47 PM, artthouwill said:

Didn't ALL of the 1000 series New Flyer buses get a midlife rehab?  Interesting that the 6400s Didn't have a rust issue despite being outside at FG.  Are NP 4000s also suffering a rust issue?  

Maybe CTA needs to step up efforts to replace or rebuild NP and FG and possibly get going on getting garage number 8.  Otherwise CTAmight be forced to expedite the Nova order and maybe place one more diesel order for artics .  That kind of issue may lead CTA to consider the indoor garages for the new buses.  However leaving the buses at status quo may exacerbate the problem.

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The question, at least addressed in later bus procurements, was that Chicago used some really corrosive type of road salt (maybe containing magnesium chloride). If there is any NP connection, it may be speeding through slush on LSD, and not then being adequately washed.

Nova always said that it used rustproof stainless steel structure and composite skins.

[artthouwill]

  On 4/17/2022 at 12:21 AM, Busjack said:

The question, at least addressed in later bus procurements, was that Chicago used some really corrosive type of road salt (maybe containing magnesium chloride). If there is any NP connection, it may be speeding through slush on LSD, and not then being adequately washed.

Nova always said that it used rustproof stainless steel structure and composite skins.

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Based on what @YoungBusLoversaid, most of the buses in the boneyard at 77th were NP based.  K and 103rd buses also used Lake Shore Drive  and are just as susceptible to the road salt.  

[Busjack]

  On 4/17/2022 at 12:36 AM, artthouwill said:

Based on what @YoungBusLoversaid, most of the buses in the boneyard at 77th were NP based.  K and 103rd buses also used Lake Shore Drive  and are just as susceptible to the road salt.  

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But those garages didn't have so many of the last 2 options buses (Kedzie had some).

[Bus1883]

  On 4/16/2022 at 7:58 PM, YoungBusLover said:

Yeah it's very possible depending on how bad the damage is. Seeing though that these are mainly buses from NP and outdoor conditions play a role at weathering buses out quicker one could argue they would get the nod for rehabs first and then shipped off somewhere else once they're completed. 

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Yeah the #1000’s are showing there age especially when the grey paneling covers can easily fall off into the street somewhere when they are doing a run 

[BusHunter]

  On 4/17/2022 at 12:21 AM, Busjack said:

The question, at least addressed in later bus procurements, was that Chicago used some really corrosive type of road salt (maybe containing magnesium chloride). If there is any NP connection, it may be speeding through slush on LSD, and not then being adequately washed.

Nova always said that it used rustproof stainless steel structure and composite skins.

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Both NP and FG don't wash the buses in the extreme cold below 32., so that may have bit them eventually. I don't think np had the nfs in question that long. Fg didn't even have nfs for a long while after they arrived. I think it's just age. The oldest buses are 16 years old. After the FTA service life, you are basically running them at your own risk, because in so many words in the feds eyes the buses are done. 

[Javi78]

  On 4/17/2022 at 2:05 PM, BusHunter said:

Both NP and FG don't wash the buses in the extreme cold below 32., so that may have bit them eventually. I don't think np had the nfs in question that long. Fg didn't even have nfs for a long while after they arrived. I think it's just age. The oldest buses are 16 years old. After the FTA service life, you are basically running them at your own risk, because in so many words in the feds eyes the buses are done. 

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What made CTA decide to choose Nova over NF? I wanted to see a repeat of the 1000s with newer looking NF diesel buses. Then when get NF artics when the current ones retire. Is it bad for a transit agency to have everything the same manufacturer?

[artthouwill]

  On 4/17/2022 at 3:16 PM, Javi78 said:

What made CTA decide to choose Nova over NF? I wanted to see a repeat of the 1000s with newer looking NF diesel buses. Then when get NF artics when the current ones retire. Is it bad for a transit agency to have everything the same manufacturer?

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The advantage of a fleet of one manufacturer is the cost of training, cost ofparts.  However if there's a major problem,  it could be very problematic for the operation. 

[YoungBusLover]

  On 4/16/2022 at 11:47 PM, artthouwill said:

Didn't ALL of the 1000 series New Flyer buses get a midlife rehab?  Interesting that the 6400s Didn't have a rust issue despite being outside at FG.  Are NP 4000s also suffering a rust issue?  

Maybe CTA needs to step up efforts to replace or rebuild NP and FG and possibly get going on getting garage number 8.  Otherwise CTAmight be forced to expedite the Nova order and maybe place one more diesel order for artics .  That kind of issue may lead CTA to consider the indoor garages for the new buses.  However leaving the buses at status quo may exacerbate the problem.

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  On 4/17/2022 at 12:36 AM, artthouwill said:

Based on what @YoungBusLoversaid, most of the buses in the boneyard at 77th were NP based.  K and 103rd buses also used Lake Shore Drive  and are just as susceptible to the road salt.  

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  On 4/17/2022 at 2:05 PM, BusHunter said:

Both NP and FG don't wash the buses in the extreme cold below 32., so that may have bit them eventually. I don't think np had the nfs in question that long. Fg didn't even have nfs for a long while after they arrived. I think it's just age. The oldest buses are 16 years old. After the FTA service life, you are basically running them at your own risk, because in so many words in the feds eyes the buses are done. 

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Yeah based on what I saw transferred from the SS wall to the Boneyard were buses primarily from NP and K, not to many from C but enough to make me curious to see what's really going on with them because some have sat dormant for a while now.  All of the #1000s got some sort of rehab I don't know the specifics for each series block of #1000s though. I do agree that variables with the weather have played a role with rusting and other cosmetic defects that have sidelined these buses. Could an indoor garage and consistent washing help? Most definitely I would think.  Age is another thing that comes to mind but technically these #1700s and #1800s are between 12-14 years old so they're right at the age for retirement if CTA elected to do so.   

 

 

[artthouwill]

  On 4/17/2022 at 5:25 PM, YoungBusLover said:

Yeah based on what I saw transferred from the SS wall to the Boneyard were buses primarily from NP and K, not to many from C but enough to make me curious to see what's really going on with them because some have sat dormant for a while now.  All of the #1000s got some sort of rehab I don't know the specifics for each series block of #1000s though. I do agree that variables with the weather have played a role with rusting and other cosmetic defects that have sidelined these buses. Could an indoor garage and consistent washing help? Most definitely I would think.  Age is another thing that comes to mind but technically these #1700s and #1800s are between 12-14 years old so they're right at the age for retirement if CTA elected to do so.   

 

 

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The only way to retire the 1700s4 and 1800s is to expedite the options for the 8350s.  The 600s are taking forever to enter service.   CTA may have to hang on to the 6400s for awhile. 

[Busjack]

  On 4/17/2022 at 3:16 PM, Javi78 said:

What made CTA decide to choose Nova over NF? I wanted to see a repeat of the 1000s with newer looking NF diesel buses. Then when get NF artics when the current ones retire. Is it bad for a transit agency to have everything the same manufacturer?

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You, and several others don't understand federal bus procurement requirements. There are 3 ways to choose a manufacturer (1) competitive bids (2) assignable options [like the two articulated bus deals with Seattle] or (3) piggybacking on a multi-jurisdictional contract [as Pace did with Proterra]. If the bidders are all qualified, the TA has to take the lowest bidder. At this point, we have to assume that NF and Nova are equally qualified, so the lowest bidder wins. Similarly, when Pace ordered the CNG buses, it had experience with both ENC and NF, and since ENC was a few bucks cheaper, it won.

The last time CTA tried to steer a contract, it was to MAN for 4400s, which resulted in protests, MAN leaving the US in the meantime, and TMC eventually getting the contract.

Having only NF also doesn't cure the standardization problem; 1000-2029 have 2 different structures and maybe 3 different drivetrains.

[Busjack]

  On 4/17/2022 at 6:30 PM, artthouwill said:

The only way to retire the 1700s4 and 1800s is to expedite the options for the 8350s.  The 600s are taking forever to enter service.   CTA may have to hang on to the 6400s for awhile. 

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The Proterras are to replace the 6800s; anything else would violate the terms of the CMAQ grant. If Option 3 and 4 buses are junked (and @YoungBusLover indicates that this includes C buses,  not just NP), some of the first 630 buses will have to hang around past the end of the 600 bus Nova contract, unless CTA can cut back on spares. Accelerating the options would have no effect on the fact that the contract calls for a maximum of 600 buses.

[Policeman]

1904 back in service 

[YoungBusLover]

Another SS fence list update. I also want to add that we have 7 #600s in storage within one of our Eastern bays. I couldn't get the rest of the numbers though.

#4085
#4363
#7992
#4083
#1157
#8327
#4311
#4089
#4094
#1294
#4200
#4004
#8061
#4068
#7926
#701
#700
#1434
#7937
#622
#8099
#8321
#1295
#7909
#617
#8312
#619
#609
#8368
#8350
#8366
#605
#615
#8357
#8361
#8383
#8371
#620
#8380
#8386
#8374
#8370
#8360
#8354
#8369
#8356
#8363
#8359
#8364
#8385
#1411
#8352
#8378
#8384

#8373

[Chammon Moore]

  On 5/14/2022 at 2:45 PM, YoungBusLover said:

Another SS fence list update. I also want to add that we have 7 #600s in storage within one of our Eastern bays. I couldn't get the rest of the numbers though.

#4085
#4363
#7992
#4083
#1157
#8327
#4311
#4089
#4094
#1294
#4200
#4004
#8061
#4068
#7926
#701
#700
#1434
#7937
#622
#8099
#8321
#1295
#7909
#617
#8312
#619
#609
#8368
#8350
#8366
#605
#615
#8357
#8361
#8383
#8371
#620
#8380
#8386
#8374
#8370
#8360
#8354
#8369
#8356
#8363
#8359
#8364
#8385
#1411
#8352
#8378
#8384

#8373

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Why the 8350s and the Proterras are at the south fence is it because they testing?

[YoungBusLover]

  On 5/14/2022 at 3:13 PM, Chammon Moore said:

Why the 8350s and the Proterras are at the south fence is it because they testing?

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When new buses are delivered that's where they're placed setup, maintenance and sometimes just storage since they're isn't any other place for them to go. 

[artthouwill]

  On 5/14/2022 at 3:13 PM, Chammon Moore said:

Why the 8350s and the Proterras are at the south fence is it because they testing?

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I believe initial new deliveries go to South Shops for inspection and maintenance training.   Once those things successfully happen, they may temporarily stored there until CTA announces and decides what garage (s) will receive the  eq buses.  I'm not sure if the back end deliveries go to SS or directly to the assigned garage, though I would guess the latter. 

[YoungBusLover]

  On 5/14/2022 at 3:36 PM, artthouwill said:

I believe initial new deliveries go to South Shops for inspection and maintenance training.   Once those things successfully happen, they may temporarily stored there until CTA announces and decides what garage (s) will receive the  eq buses.  I'm not sure if the back end deliveries go to SS or directly to the assigned garage, though I would guess the latter. 

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Anything new must go through SS initially before getting transferred to any garage for permanent assignment. 

[jajuan]

  On 4/17/2022 at 3:16 PM, Javi78 said:

What made CTA decide to choose Nova over NF? I wanted to see a repeat of the 1000s with newer looking NF diesel buses. Then when get NF artics when the current ones retire. Is it bad for a transit agency to have everything the same manufacturer?

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Even if NF had won, you weren't going to see a repeat of the 1000s since NF discontinued the LF bodies that are the present model of CTA's 1000s along with the LFRs a few years ago. The only thing NF makes now are Xcelsiors both standard length and artics of different engine and motor specifications. 

[Bus1883]

  On 5/14/2022 at 3:13 PM, Chammon Moore said:

Why the 8350s and the Proterras are at the south fence is it because they testing?

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Nope new equipment is always set there until they are assigned to a garage. Other than that there we don’t have anywhere else to place them