CTA 'L' Rosters

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, RJL6000 said:

If only because of the way the cars will be pulled from the yard to enter service. The chance of two 3200 sets on the ends with 2600s in the middle will be, just like the chance of such a combo currently exists on the Orange Line, purely the luck of the draw. Hence, you will see trains on the Blue Line made up entirely of 2600-series cars, and likewise a few trains on the Blue Line made up entirely of 3200s. And the few mixed-series consists will have cars arranged in no particular order.

Probably so.  Just remembering  when CTA made a concerted effort to belly the 2200s due to their age.  Doing the 2600s the same way will get you 25 trains with 3200s.  But more than likely the luck of the draw as you stated.

[Busjack]

14 hours ago, garmon757 said:

Yes but the issue is I can’t see the 3200s getting retired right away after 656 7000s arrives. 

I agree that it seems like they put too much money into the 3200s to take them out of service say in 2025, but that was the plan stated in the specifications for cars 7401 through 7656 from the beginning.

On this point, the contract says:

The contract was awarded March 9, 2016.That means that CTA has 5 years to exercise option #1 (or until March 2021) and 5.5 years to exercise option #2 (until Sept. 2021). How soon after that CTA gets the cars depends on production schedules.

On delivery, 10 cars, 8 to be selected as test cars, are to be delivered 3 years from the Notice to Proceed (which was the same time as the contract award) or March 2019, for a one year test.After they passed, deliveries of the base order start no earlier than 290 days after the delivery of the 10 cars, or Feb. 2020, at a rate of 10 to 14 cars a month. At 14 cars per month, it would take 28 months to deliver the base order of 400 cars, or into 2022. At 10 cars a month, it would take 40 months, or into late 2023. Then the delivery on the options would start.

Only way it would be delayed is if CTA skipped an option, but that is not contemplated.

8 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Probably so.  Just remembering  when CTA made a concerted effort to belly the 2200s due to their age.  Doing the 2600s the same way will get you 25 trains with 3200s.  But more than likely the luck of the draw as you stated.

The difference is that CTA is now doing a life extending rehab on about 90-100 2600s, and that's why I agree with @RJL6000.

[BusHunter]

Well they didn't seem to have a problem with the 2200s being belly cars. I think that is what they intend to do. The Orange and Brown lines are ran in such a way the cars with the digital run numbers seem to get on the ends. The blue line cars are so depressing all the lines have digital signs now except some Orange line. Your telling me they are not going to try and get as many led equipped cars on the ends as they can. Blue line needs something. 

I don't see anything in the blue line yards as far as 3200s. They must be hiding them in the shop areas. #3207-08 was on the Orange line tonight.

[Aiden Tabucic]

31 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Well they didn't seem to have a problem with the 2200s being belly cars. I think that is what they intend to do. The Orange and Brown lines are ran in such a way the cars with the digital run numbers seem to get on the ends. The blue line cars are so depressing all the lines have digital signs now except some Orange line. Your telling me they are not going to try and get as many led equipped cars on the ends as they can. Blue line needs something. 

I don't see anything in the blue line yards as far as 3200s. They must be hiding them in the shop areas. #3207-08 was on the Orange line tonight.

I passed rosemont towards forest park tonight i seen 3200’s Parked up in the middle outside 

[BusHunter]

Hmm passed by on the kennedy didn't see anything

[Aiden Tabucic]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Hmm passed by on the kennedy didn't see anything

They are sitting in the middle towards the inside of the shop unless some 2600’s blocked the view 

[garmon757]

#3271-72 - #3307-08 - #2686-85 - #2832-31 were at Forest Park but was "dragged" back to Midway around Midnight.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

But this means we will eventually see LED destination signs on the Blue Line!

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

But this means we will eventually see LED destination signs on the Blue Line!

Probably was the reason they were the first thing installed in the rehab. They could have left the Red, Purple, Brown and Orange rolls, but certainly didn't want to come up with ~770 rolls with Blue readings.

[BusHunter]

I wonder how many 3200 cars could possibly go to each line? If they are doing ends only they could achieve that with 20 cars on the orange. I was surprised headways were 6 minutes in the rush on the brown. Could they make it with 30 cars? That would be 15 consists. You would have to figure a spare ratio. Maybe 10 extra cars for each line. So what that is 70-75 cars. Blue line could get as many as 180 cars? You could park the 2600s in the off peak. Midday brown and Orange runs quads. I think it's possible you could park the majority of 2600s but blue line would have to get the majority just because it's a big line like the red. Who knows maybe the Orange line could run 5000s. They can't spare 80 cars? Then you could really park some 2600s.

[artthouwill]

21 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I wonder how many 3200 cars could possibly go to each line? If they are doing ends only they could achieve that with 20 cars on the orange. I was surprised headways were 6 minutes in the rush on the brown. Could they make it with 30 cars? That would be 15 consists. You would have to figure a spare ratio. Maybe 10 extra cars for each line. So what that is 70-75 cars. Blue line could get as many as 180 cars? You could park the 2600s in the off peak. Midday brown and Orange runs quads. I think it's possible you could park the majority of 2600s but blue line would have to get the majority just because it's a big line like the red. Who knows maybe the Orange line could run 5000s. They can't spare 80 cars? Then you could really park some 2600s.

I don't  understand  your post.  Its been  reported that. 100 3200 series cars are moving from Brown to Blue and Blue sending 100 2600s to Brown.  No other line is getting 3200s and 5000s aren't going to the  Brown or Orange Lines.  We've already discussed CTA not wanting mixed (incompatibile) sets on any rail line.  If there was enough equipment to park all of the 2600s, which there isn't,  CTA would be doing so.  Expect to see  2600s around for 5 more years and 3200s for another 7 years.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I don't  understand  your post.  Its been  reported that. 100 3200 series cars are moving from Brown to Blue and Blue sending 100 2600s to Brown.  No other line is getting 3200s and 5000s aren't going to the  Brown or Orange Lines.  We've already discussed CTA not wanting mixed (incompatibile) sets on any rail line.  If there was enough equipment to park all of the 2600s, which there isn't,  CTA would be doing so.  Expect to see  2600s around for 5 more years and 3200s for another 7 years.

That's because you didn't read it closely enough. I said in the off peak not all the time. Ironically mixed sets is exactly whats happening here. I didn't know the magic number was 100. Well then that could still be up to 25 consists on blue. Orange line doesn't appear to have enough cars, but yesterday almost all the #3200's were run on the ends. I made an error in my math though the orange line would need 40 cars not 20 and the brown line at least 60 cars. That's about 200 cars and 257 is the magic number right? So it figures some of what. Midday does have alot of rehabbed equipment that is sitting in yards. CTA needs to get it's moneys worth out of these rehabs. Too bad all those 5000's that are sitting in yards can't be used better but this is what happens when cars are incompatible. I know 5000's aren't going to Orange but I can't help but wonder why not??? The initial press release did say so, so what happened to stop this?

Finally CTA's rail division is putting on it's thinking caps. Too bad they were not smart enough to order compatible cars. For years to come it will always be segregated. 7000s on orange brown and blue and 5000s on red yellow purple green pink. See the situation we have now, the 2600's are dying out, what happens in 2045 when the 5000s do the same thing. You can't say well we'll mix in the 7000s cause you can't. Maybe someone will find a way to marry the different cars. This is why it's worth it to make the cars compatible. You truly get what you pay for in this world. Cheaper is not always better.

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

That's because you didn't read it closely enough. I said in the off peak not all the time. Ironically mixed sets is exactly whats happening here. I didn't know the magic number was 100. Well then that could still be up to 25 consists on blue. Orange line doesn't appear to have enough cars, but yesterday almost all the #3200's were run on the ends. I made an error in my math though the orange line would need 40 cars not 20 and the brown line at least 60 cars. That's about 200 cars and 257 is the magic number right? So it figures some of what. Midday does have alot of rehabbed equipment that is sitting in yards. CTA needs to get it's moneys worth out of these rehabs. Too bad all those 5000's that are sitting in yards can't be used better but this is what happens when cars are incompatible. I know 5000's aren't going to Orange but I can't help but wonder why not??? The initial press release did say so, so what happened to stop this?

Finally CTA's rail division is putting on it's thinking caps. Too bad they were not smart enough to order compatible cars. For years to come it will always be segregated. 7000s on orange brown and blue and 5000s on red yellow purple green pink. See the situation we have now, the 2600's are dying out, what happens in 2045 when the 5000s do the same thing. You can't say well we'll mix in the 7000s cause you can't. Maybe someone will find a way to marry the different cars. This is why it's worth it to make the cars compatible. You truly get what you pay for in this world. Cheaper is not always better.

The 5000s were never going to be compatible with the 3200s and apparently no one wanted to build cars compatible with the 5000s.  At least the 2600s and the 3200s ARE compatible and can (do) train together. The 2600s and 3200s were alternating current cars and everything else from 5000s, 7000s and so on  will be DC cars.  With new technology coming rapidly, it's harder to make ne technology  compatible with old technology.  By 2045, the technologies on the 5000sand maybe even the 7000s may very well be obsolete.

[Busjack]

I think the only thing that is clear after @garmon757 reported that the 3200s were at Forest Park for training and reports that the rehabs are about done, there will be a scrambling of cars, just like there was a scrambling of buses after those rehabs were done.

 

 

 

[scotthilly]

Does anyone know when the 2600’s will actually start on the brown line, and when the 3200’s will start on blue? As someone who strictly rides brown... I’m dreading the day this happens. The 3200’s are absolutely the best! 

[BusHunter]

I was hearing that the blue line was to get the orange line 3200s and orange was going all 2600. This was from a supervisor. So far all the cars have been orange line ones. If true I wonder what's up with the orange line that it cant have 3200s? 

[Busjack]

17 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I was hearing that the blue line was to get the orange line 3200s and orange was going all 2600. This was from a supervisor. So far all the cars have been orange line ones. If true I wonder what's up with the orange line that it cant have 3200s? 

It isn't that the Orange Line can't  have 3200s. As CTA explained and you couldn't accept with regard to the Milwaukee subway and Garmon (who works there) said with respect to the Forest Park segment  3200s are the newest cars that can be assigned to the Blue Line until it is rehabilitated.

If you had read what Garmon posted, this would not have been the shock to you.

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

It isn't that the Orange Line can't  have 3200s. As CTA explained and you couldn't accept with regard to the Milwaukee subway and Garmon (who works there) said with respect to the Forest Park segment  3200s are the newest cars that can be assigned to the Blue Line until it is rehabilitated.

If you had read what Garmon posted, this would not have been the shock to you.

I think BH's point was that the plan was for the 3200s to come from the Brown Line.  The roof boards were referenced as staying on the Brown Line due to clearance issues in the Kimball subway.  So now the question is whether  they are coming from the  Brown Line or the  Orange Line?  If Orange, then that line may very well be all 2600s, keeping the Brown all 3200s and making the Blue the only line (instead of Orange) with mixed fleet.

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I think BH's point was that the plan was for the 3200s to come from the Brown Line.  The roof boards were referenced as staying on the Brown Line due to clearance issues in the Kimball subway.  So now the question is whether  they are coming from the  Brown Line or the  Orange Line?  If Orange, then that line may very well be all 2600s, keeping the Brown all 3200s and making the Blue the only line (instead of Orange) with mixed fleet.

No one can tell what his point is, but as I indicated above:

On 8/19/2018 at 11:18 AM, Busjack said:

What I was trying to imply is that 7000s first go to the Orange and Brown Lines and the Blue Line runs rehabs until all the track and electrical issues are worked out. Now maybe what you are getting at is that a certain amount of junk has to be allocated to the Orange and Brown Lines until the 7000s start being delivered.

While the focus there was on which line gets 7000s first, the point clearly was that all 3200s and rehabbed 2600s go to the Blue Line because it won't be ready for 7000s first.

I implied above that to meet Blue Line requirements, all would have to be transferred. Also note that Garmon said:

On 8/19/2018 at 10:22 AM, garmon757 said:

Also some Blue Line 2600s are shifting to the Brown Line. Stay tuned!

That's even though the training train came from Orange.

Even if one takes the roof board point (and note that the pantographs have been removed, so I don't), that's only 16 cars. That still leaves 240 or 242 cars that can be transferred.

But I do agree with your final conclusion that the Blue Line remains with the only mixed fleet.

 

[Sam92]

21 minutes ago, Busjack said:

No one can tell what his point is, but as I indicated above:

While the focus there was on which line gets 7000s first, the point clearly was that all 3200s and rehabbed 2600s go to the Blue Line because it won't be ready for 7000s first.

I implied above that to meet Blue Line requirements, all would have to be transferred. Also note that Garmon said:

That's even though the training train came from Orange.

Even if one takes the roof board point (and note that the pantographs have been removed, so I don't), that's only 16 cars. That still leaves 240 or 242 cars that can be transferred

But I do agree with your final conclusion that the Blue Line remains with the only mixed fleet.

 

So sounds like brown and orange would be all 2600s then for the breif time until 7000s come in

[BusHunter]

This supervisor said training was suspended. For how long and what does that mean? Have 3200s been seen at forest pk in the last few days? Orange line doesn't have many cars that are 3200. This supervisor whoch is the forest pk supervisor, thinks they'll only be 80 cars going to blue. I thought it was better to do the 3 way split between the 3 lines but this doesn't sound like that at all.

[Busjack]

48 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Orange line doesn't have many cars that are 3200. This supervisor whoch is the forest pk supervisor, thinks they'll only be 80 cars going to blue.

I thought Andre posted an official roster (which I couldn't locate), but if the roster at the topic of this topic is correct, Orange only has 80 3200s, so that's consistent.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

I thought Andre posted an official roster (which I couldn't locate), but if the roster at the topic of this topic is correct, Orange only has 80 3200s, so that's consistent.

It's right for the most part but I don't get how the 2600s are resting. Maybe the maintenance is better at Midway. Still all those rehabbed 3200s sitting at Kimball yard leaves me scratching my head. I would work those hard for the 7 short years they would have them in a rehabbed state.

[Busjack]

3 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I would work those hard for the 7 short years they would have them in a rehabbed state.

Which supports my thesis that they are going to the Blue Line, as @garmon757  implied by saying that 2600s are going to Brown. Kimball Yard doesn't have room for both.

 

[BusHunter]

I should add he stated there is no timeline for the 3200s return which I don't understand. 50 cars are on hold on the blue line. For maintenance???