CTA Service Adjustments

[NewFlyerMCI]

Seems like too much dead mileage to be worth it. I don't know if there is an issue about a driver's toilet, but I would think they could just circle the block instead of adding 3 miles to the round trip (a mile to 87th, a half mile to Damen, and then back).

I haven't seen a toliet at 87th/Western or 87th/Damen. Personally, I would rather have them turnaround in the parking lots north of the Sam's Clubs but south of 91st on Western or the hospital complex a few blocks west of 95th/Western. Seems like more passengers could be served.

Edited August 1, 2015 by NewFlyerMCI
Misinformed, artthouwill provided correct info

[artthouwill]

I haven't seen a toliet at 87th/Western or 87th/Damen. Personally, I would rather have them turnaround in the parking lots north of the Sam's Clubs but south of 91st on Western or the hospital complex a few blocks west of 95th/Western. Seems like more passengers could be served.

Perhaps CTA asked all of them and they were denied. 

[Busjack]

I haven't seen a toliet at 87th/Western or 87th/Damen. Personally, I would rather have them turnaround in the parking lots north of the Sam's Clubs but south of 91st on Western or the hospital complex a few blocks west of 95th/Western. Seems like more passengers could be served.

Perhaps CTA asked all of them and they were denied. 

Undoubtedly the latter is the case, as NewFlyerMCI is suggesting using private property, and private owners don't want their parking lots torn up (cf. the situation at Yorktown).

I had suggested just circling the block, but part of the current circle around the block is labelled "Private Drive." I guess that's what CTA can't use during demolition.

[jajuan]

 

Undoubtedly the latter is the case, as NewFlyerMCI is suggesting using private property, and private owners don't want their parking lots torn up (cf. the situation at Yorktown).

I had suggested just circling the block, but part of the current circle around the block is labelled "Private Drive." I guess that's what CTA can't use during demolition.

And that was my original thought that came to mind of why they were doing these indefinite detours, that for whatever reason they wouldn't have access to 98th and Campbell during demolition because they're configured as private drives for the soon to be gone Evergreen Plaza. And it is correct that CTA can't just decide to put a turnaround on private property or any other property not belonging explicitly to CTA without permission from the owners for the reason that Busjack mentioned of the owners not wanting the pavement that their car driving patrons would share with the buses ripped up. In addition to what Pace had to go through with Yorktown (notice that even though Pace worked things out with Yorktown's owners not all of the buses that terminated at the mall before the dispute have a layover in the mall lot any longer, i.e. 313 lays over at Branding/Finley after stopping at the mall), the #12 now terminates at the Central/Harrison terminal instead of the former Roosevelt/Monitor terminal because if I remember someone mentioning correctly the owners of a restaurant that the terminal looped and wrapped around was leasing the land of that terminal out to CTA and decided they no longer wanted buses idling next to their restaurant. It was a blessing in disguise since it opened up the 12 for getting some runs covered by artics as needed. From the torn up pavement angle, there was mention that it's pretty likely the Park District wanted the #94 out of Marquette Park because decades of buses laying over on Redfield Drive and Sacramento was ripping the pavement up so bad to the point of being mud fields by some descriptions.

[BusHunter]

It would have been cool if they could've went to Meijer's parking lot at 93rd/Western, drove through hit the south exit on 95th went east and they could layover maybe on the east side of 95th/western EB. They could have did something similar for the #48.

[Busjack]

... In addition to what Pace had to go through with Yorktown (notice that even though Pace worked things out with Yorktown's owners not all of the buses that terminated at the mall before the dispute have a layover in the mall lot any longer, i.e. 313 lays over at Branding/Finley after stopping at the mall)...

Before they were coming up to the mall and laying over in the parking lot. The current setup is that there is a concrete pad with a bus shelter on a ring road near J.C. Penney, but, as you note, the layover is at Brandling and Finley. Also, IIRC, the old bus stop was at Montgomery Ward, which appears to have been demolished and replaced by "The Shops on Butterfield."

It is a similar deal at Glenbrook Hospital--the overhang at the entrance was removed, and there is only room for a bus stop at the sidewalk.

It seems like that at other malls (Old Orchard, Oakbrook, and Golf Mill) the transit buses stop at a dedicated bus station. The solicitations for Pulse indicated that someone would have to deal with the new owners of Golf Mill to build a Pulse station there.

It would have been cool if they could've went to Meijer's parking lot at 93rd/Western, drove through hit the south exit on 95th went east and they could layover maybe on the east side of 95th/western EB. They could have did something similar for the #48.

Besides the private drive issue, it seemed like the only justification for extending 48 was to get to The Plaza, which no longer exists. I doubt there was much demand to connect with 349, for instance.

[jajuan]

It would have been cool if they could've went to Meijer's parking lot at 93rd/Western, drove through hit the south exit on 95th went east and they could layover maybe on the east side of 95th/western EB. They could have did something similar for the #48.

Maybe, but again they'd have to have special permission for it, in this case from Meijer. If different malls across the country have had owners hesitant about allowing transit buses on their parking lots, it makes it less likely that single retailer management would go for it. It's why I'm always surprised when smaller shopping centers in the burbs with basically a Jewel, Target or Walmart and not much else have direct service into their lots by Pace. I know I was surprised that Forest Park Mall, now called Forest Park Plaza per the current owners Bill Winston Ministries, was still getting the 305 in its lot during the time that everything was gone pretty much except Walmart, K-Mart and Old Country Buffet. Maybe the few other restaurants that are now there along with some clothing store outlets that Bill Winston Ministries' website lists as being tenants of the mall along with the church the ministry now has there justifies the buses pulling into the mall lot today, but during the downturn that hit the mall prior to that it didn't seem like there was still reason for the bus to still have stops directly along the mall driveways.

Before they were coming up to the mall and laying over in the parking lot. The current setup is that there is a concrete pad with a bus shelter on a ring road near J.C. Penney, but, as you note, the layover is at Brandling and Finley. Also, IIRC, the old bus stop was at Montgomery Ward, which appears to have been demolished and replaced by "The Shops on Butterfield."

It is a similar deal at Glenbrook Hospital--the overhang at the entrance was removed, and there is only room for a bus stop at the sidewalk.

Besides the private drive issue, it seemed like the only justification for extending 48 was to get to The Plaza, which no longer exists. I doubt there was much demand to connect with 349, for instance.

Yeah I was thinking that too about the 48. I think it was also a way to soften the blow sort to speak of pulling service back from the 35th/Archer Orange Line station to the Western Orange Line station.after finally coming to the conclusion that connection with the #50 main route wasn't enough to keep service going beyond 47th Street on the north end. That's probably been the case even before Damen bridge between Pershing and 47th got demolished instead of rebuilt as intended. Bill V. flubs the history a bit though when he says it was extended to 35th/Archer on Feb. 11, 1962 when actually that extension was to Damen/Blue Island where the 50 also terminated before the Orange Line existed. And of course when the Orange Line opened in October of 1993, the 50 was extended south to 35th/Archer at the rail station's bus terminal and the 48 shortened back to that point.

[artthouwill]

Maybe, but again they'd have to have special permission for it, in this case from Meijer. If different malls across the country have had owners hesitant about allowing transit buses on their parking lots, it makes it less likely that single retailer management would go for it. It's why I'm always surprised when smaller shopping centers in the burbs with basically a Jewel, Target or Walmart and not much else have direct service into their lots by Pace. I know I was surprised that Forest Park Mall, now called Forest Park Plaza per the current owners Bill Winston Ministries, was still getting the 305 in its lot during the time that everything was gone pretty much except Walmart, K-Mart and Old Country Buffet. Maybe the few other restaurants that are now there along with some clothing store outlets that Bill Winston Ministries' website lists as being tenants of the mall along with the church the ministry now has there justifies the buses pulling into the mall lot today, but during the downturn that hit the mall prior to that it didn't seem like there was still reason for the bus to still have stops directly along the mall driveways.

Yeah I was thinking that too about the 48. I think it was also a way to soften the blow sort to speak of pulling service back from the 35th/Archer Orange Line station to the Western Orange Line station.after finally coming to the conclusion that connection with the #50 main route wasn't enough to keep service going beyond 47th Street on the north end. That's probably been the case even before Damen bridge between Pershing and 47th got demolished instead of rebuilt as intended. Bill V. flubs the history a bit though when he says it was extended to 35th/Archer on Feb. 11, 1962 when actually that extension was to Damen/Blue Island where the 50 also terminated before the Orange Line existed. And of course when the Orange Line opened in October of 1993, the 50 was extended south to 35th/Archer at the rail station's bus terminal and the 48 shortened back to that point.

Growing up in Englewood, I remember the 48 signs reading 35th/Archer.  Whether the bus actually went to Damen/Cermak, I could not tell you as I didn't have reason to ride that route.  Seemingly now the only real traffic generator on the route appears to be Lindbloom High School, but my childhood experience tells me most of those kids rode Ashland or 63rd.  Basically the 48 is an irrelevant route, pretty much like the 44 is now.  The 48 has been reduced to rush hour only for quite some time and still can't generate any meaningful ridership.  As you alluded to the former bridge, I don't know if the demolition of that bridge affected ridership in that it was a very quick ride from 47th to 35th/Archer Orange Line with the bridge open, even in its dilapidated state. Unfortunately the 48 offers no relief to the 9 or the 49, which are two of the heaviest routes in the system.

[Juniorz]

A little history lesson for the curious minds

TT048_1994-07-05.pdf

Damen,South_1993-09-30.pdf

[Busjack]

A little history lesson for the curious minds

TT048_1994-07-05.pdf

Damen,South_1993-09-30.pdf

The screwy thing on both was the Blue Island loop, even though the bus was routed into the 35/Archer Orange Line station when the Orange Line opened. Not sure why that loop was there, but the second attachment indicates that it predated the Orange Line by about 10 years.

Note also that the second one points out that it ran north of 47th only rush hours.

[NewFlyerMCI]

 

Yeah I was thinking that too about the 48. I think it was also a way to soften the blow sort to speak of pulling service back from the 35th/Archer Orange Line station to the Western Orange Line station.after finally coming to the conclusion that connection with the #50 main route wasn't enough to keep service going beyond 47th Street on the north end. That's probably been the case even before Damen bridge between Pershing and 47th got demolished instead of rebuilt as intended. Bill V. flubs the history a bit though when he says it was extended to 35th/Archer on Feb. 11, 1962 when actually that extension was to Damen/Blue Island where the 50 also terminated before the Orange Line existed. And of course when the Orange Line opened in October of 1993, the 50 was extended south to 35th/Archer at the rail station's bus terminal and the 48 shortened back to that point.

I'm wondering if all of those trips of the 48 NB after 6pm that only run to 74th/Damen were for the mall workers. If so, methinks 87th/Damen or possibly 87th/Western will become non-existant or truncated

[Busjack]

I'm wondering if all of those trips of the 48 NB after 6pm that only run to 74th/Damen were for the mall workers. If so, methinks 87th/Damen or possibly 87th/Western will become non-existant or truncated

Undoubtedly only get to the 74th Garage, which is at 74th and Damen.

[andrethebusman]

Here is the deal: 50A got extended from 47th to Archer 2/11/62 soon after the Back of the Yards Skyway opened in order to connect with the Archer buses. Initially all day, but soon cut back to 47th again midday. 50 got extended rush hours to Archer 9/12/66 in order to have thru service on Damen. However, the first rebuilding of the Damen viaduct between 29th and 33rd resulted in the 50 extension being suspended 11/17/69 to 9/13/71. 50 riding to Archer was minimal, so the extension went in the great purge of 9/7/73. However, the 50A rush to Archer continued, and because of political pressure got extended to Blue Island 7/2/84 so there was connecting service from north to south Damen again. When Midway opened, all 48 (by then) service (weekday daytime) was extended to 35th/Archer, with rush service only continuing to Blue Island. However, soon it was decided, again by political means which was the norm with everything concerning Midway service at that time, that there was a need for a connection between the Medical Center and the Midway L, so 6/18/94 the 50 had all service extended to 35th/Archer and 50A was cut back to 35th/Archer.

[NewFlyerMCI]

Undoubtedly only get to the 74th Garage, which is at 74th and Damen.

I did forget that was there . For some reason, I keep thinking 74th and Racine.

[Busjack]

I did forget that was there . For some reason, I keep thinking 74th and Racine.

Theoretically, 74th and Wood, but that's closer to Damen.

However, many north south schedules for 74th routes (such as 9) have trips ending at 74th for the obvious reason.

[jajuan]

A little history lesson for the curious minds

TT048_1994-07-05.pdf

Damen,South_1993-09-30.pdf

Here is the deal: 50A got extended from 47th to Archer 2/11/62 soon after the Back of the Yards Skyway opened in order to connect with the Archer buses. Initially all day, but soon cut back to 47th again midday. 50 got extended rush hours to Archer 9/12/66 in order to have thru service on Damen. However, the first rebuilding of the Damen viaduct between 29th and 33rd resulted in the 50 extension being suspended 11/17/69 to 9/13/71. 50 riding to Archer was minimal, so the extension went in the great purge of 9/7/73. However, the 50A rush to Archer continued, and because of political pressure got extended to Blue Island 7/2/84 so there was connecting service from north to south Damen again. When Midway opened, all 48 (by then) service (weekday daytime) was extended to 35th/Archer, with rush service only continuing to Blue Island. However, soon it was decided, again by political means which was the norm with everything concerning Midway service at that time, that there was a need for a connection between the Medical Center and the Midway L, so 6/18/94 the 50 had all service extended to 35th/Archer and 50A was cut back to 35th/Archer.

Thanks both of you. I know I remembered the 48 connecting with the 50 at Blue Island before the Orange Line opened. I forgot though that a terminal existed at 35th/Leavitt before the Orange Line with it's bus terminal sitting at that very location for the 35th/Archer station connections and that the 50's extension there came about eight months after the Orange Line opening. And the reason for the 50 serving 35th/Archer may have been political but it's extension there proved more successful sense it's still there after 21 years while the 48 got truncated back to 47th and the north terminus steered to the Western Orange Line station.

[jajuan]

#94 South California Bus Stop Changes

Effective 9am, Mon, Aug 10

How does this affect my trip?
The southbound bus stops located on the southwest corner at Sacramento/Chicago and on the northwest corner at Sacramento/Ohio will be eliminated. 

A new southbound bus stop will be added on the northwest corner at Sacramento/Ohio.

The southbound bus stop located on the northwest corner at Whipple/Franklin will be eliminated.

The #94 bus route will be added to the existing eastbound bus stop located on the southwest corner at Chicago/Grand.
 

And this seemed the right space to point attention to the above. From the way this sounds, they're pulling SB #94 buses off the Sacramento service drive and placing them on the main roadway like the NB buses are already routed. Seems to me that they should have done this when first extending this route via Grand and Kedzie to its current Chicago/Troy layover point as the only reason the service drive was used prior to that was because that's the only place the buses could make that U-turn after reaching Chicago during those days the terminus point was Sacramento/Chicago. Also take note at the end that the CTA lack of proofreading these notices strikes again.

[ArcherRider]

CTA has a notice up on its website that as of 9am Thursday morning #48 bus will not operate south of 87th/Damen until further notice because the 97/Western terminal is closed for the demolition of Evergreen Plaza. For the same reason, #95W buses are extended up to the 87th/Damen terminal (in this case they may mean a layover point near 87th/Damen rather than the actual off street terminal) via Western, 83rd, and Damen for westbound buses. Eastbound the indefinite detour will be via 87th, Western and back to normal routing along 95th.

Effective Monday August 24 the #48 and #95W is go back to 97/Western terminal from CTA Alerts.

[jajuan]

Effective Monday August 24 the #48 and #95W is go back to 97/Western terminal from CTA Alerts.

Sounds like there was no clear communication somehow to them that construction would only last about 3½ weeks since typically CTA will say a construction related detour lasts until a certain date if they know details about a construction project that impacts any of its routes ahead of time. And it must be an update to its alerts since up until at fairly recently that notice had been saying until further notice. 

Edited August 23, 2015 by jajuan

[jajuan]

And from the looks of it they're tweeking both routes as the updated weekday service change notices state that buses for both routes won't operate "south of 97th on Western or north of 98th on Campbell". CTA actually has a # 48 schedule brochure up effective August 3 that reflects the current detour. The one for #95W still reflects the routing prior to construction.

Edited August 23, 2015 by jajuan

[Busjack]

And from the looks of it they're tweeking both routes as the updated weekday service change notices state that buses for both routes won't operate "south of 97th on Western or north of 98th on Campbell". CTA actually has a # 48 schedule brochure up effective August 3 that reflects the current detour. The one for #95W still reflects the routing prior to construction.

Is that from CTA Tweets or the like? The only thing I see different in the Alerts for 48 and 95W are:

[jajuan]

Is that from CTA Tweets or the like? The only thing I see different in the Alerts for 48 and 95W are:

Well for the website it's under both the CTA Current Bus Alerts section and the Weekday Service Changes for the upcoming week.

[Busjack]

Well for the website it's under both the CTA Current Bus Alerts section and the Weekday Service Changes for the upcoming week.

OK, I see it under the Upcoming tab.

[andrethebusman]

This is actually quite incoherent. How do they plan on turning around? All I can see is that while the plaza building has been fenced off, possibly the demolition contractor will not actually do anything that would block Campbell (and I can easily see how this could be) and property owner told CTA they can go back to original route?

[orionbuslover]

Sounds like there was no clear communication somehow to them that construction would only last about 3½ weeks since typically CTA will say a construction related detour lasts until a certain date if they know details about a construction project that impacts any of its routes ahead of time. And it must be an update to its alerts since up until at fairly recently that notice had been saying until further notice. 

I don't think it was unclear communication. The Plaza owners have wanted CTA out for a long time. From what I've heard, the Plaza owners still refer to bus riders as 'those people'. After much hard work from CTA staff, The Plaza back tracked their decision.