CTA 2013 budget

[BusHunter]

Now that i think of it, don't they sell passes at O'Hare at the express machines? I can imagine those will be a top seller there. As far as the decrowding, I don't know what there going to achieve by freeing up alot of Optimas. Now that they raised fares, the pattern should be that they will do more service cuts. As far as late buses and bus bunching, I think it's past due they look at running express buses like they do in NYC. (Like they do on the "L" system here) Maybe then the buses can get back on time.

[mkohut]

Now that i think of it, don't they sell passes at O'Hare at the express machines? I can imagine those will be a top seller there. As far as the decrowding, I don't know what there going to achieve by freeing up alot of Optimas. Now that they raised fares, the pattern should be that they will do more service cuts. As far as late buses and bus bunching, I think it's past due they look at running express buses like they do in NYC. (Like they do on the "L" system here) Maybe then the buses can get back on time.

Yes they do.Plus,you can check Groupon website if they still have the 3 day pass for 9 dollars

[Busjack]

Now that i think of it, don't they sell passes at O'Hare at the express machines? I can imagine those will be a top seller there.

The one days are sold at exclusive "touristy" locations, including O'Hare, However, with regard to tourists, they get less of a deal paying $10 for a one day pass than paying $5.00 having the turnstile deduct from a stored value card.

However, this was the reason I mentioned that people working at O'Hare investigate 7 or 30 day passes.

The sad part is rather its RTA,CTA,or any other Board .Its the politicians who hand out all these jobs.Plus,themselves. That left everything in a financial mess.

In the CTA's case, the blame has to go directly to Quinn and Emanuel, who appointed people who do not meet statutory qualifications, and the results show what happens when that happens. However, Chicago or Illinois voters have shown little inclination to hold those two accountable for much of anything, and, in the transit area, except for those around Lincoln Ave., may be accepting the illusion Emanuel is trying to give that he is trying to improve the CTA. Six months later, I am still shocked that there wasn't a bigger outcry about shutting down the Dan Ryan Red Line.

As I mentioned earlier, the RTA is a more diffuse situation, in that other than the 5 directors appointed by the Mayor of Chicago, most of the rest are appointed by the various county board presidents or the county board members from suburban Cook.

[mkohut]

I read part of the CTA Budget and do they say the State owns then money.

Needless to say i haven't heard any of way to hear of anyway to get the state bills current.

Its the blind leading the blind.

[Busjack]

I read part of the CTA Budget and do they say the State owns then money.

Needless to say i haven't heard any of way to hear of anyway to get the state bills current.

Its the blind leading the blind.

True.

Not to mention that last year's budget was compounded by the fraud that in 2009, Quinn held off that fare increase by telling the RTA to borrow $166 million and give it to the CTA, promising that the state would cover it, but didn't, and then Claypool cried that he had $83 million less than in 2010 and 2011. But then he blamed budget problems on labor. He doesn't have the labor excuse now.

[mkohut]

True.

Not to mention that last year's budget was compounded by the fraud that in 2009, Quinn held off that fare increase by telling the RTA to borrow $166 million and give it to the CTA, promising that the state would cover it, but didn't, and then Claypool cried that he had $83 million less than in 2010 and 2011. But then he blamed budget problems on labor. He doesn't have the labor excuse now.

Before i forget.The city wants the monrail system to go to the O'Hare Metra station so they can take the Blue Line.

Your haveing then spend 12 minutes on the monrail,Another 5 walking to the station and then charge then a higher fare.

[Busjack]

Before i forget.The city wants the monrail system to go to the O'Hare Metra station so they can take the Blue Line.

Your haveing then spend 12 minutes on the monrail,Another 5 walking to the station and then charge then a higher fare.

I don't think the Metra line (or people mover to it) has anything to do with the Blue Line.

The idea of the O'Hare Metra North Central Service station was that people from essentially Prospect Heights to Antioch could get to O'Hare by going south on the train. There was a little talk about the NCS corridor being the route for a proposed airport express from the Loop, but really nothing serious. But, in any event, I doubt that there are too many passengers who are transferring from the NCS to the Blue Line.

It is similar to saying that someone from the Franklin Park area is going to take Pace 330 to transfer to the Blue Line at O'Hare, and hence needs a connection from the Kiss and Ride to the rapid transit station under the parking garage. Possible, but more likely they would take another route.

[artthouwill]

Before i forget.The city wants the monrail system to go to the O'Hare Metra station so they can take the Blue Line.

Your haveing then spend 12 minutes on the monrail,Another 5 walking to the station and then charge then a higher fare.

The city wants to extend the people mover to Remote Parking Lot F, in part to reduce the costs for the parking lot shuttle buses. The people that park in those lots FLY, not take CTA. Metra customers can benefit by only having to take the People Mover directly from the F Lot (which is where the O'Hare Transfer Station on the North Central Line). This has nothing to do with CTA nor Metra. Besides it would be cheaper to park at Rosemont or Cumberland Blue Line stations. It's a surprise that CTA hasn't considered upping the parking fees at the heavily used parking garages and lots.

[Busjack]

...It's a surprise that CTA hasn't considered upping the parking fees at the heavily used parking garages and lots.

They doubled or tripled the fee at Rosemont in 2010. And it looks like they raised it again, as the current chart states that the 0-14 hours rate is $5.00 at each Rosemont and Cumberland.

My personal opinion was that raising rates at a park and ride discourages that mode of using the system, but apparently it doesn't.

The anomaly still exists that the south Dempster Yellow Line parking lot, owned by the CTA charges $4, while the north lot, owned by the Village, charges $2. Guess which one I used when I used it?

[jajuan]

The one days are sold at exclusive "touristy" locations, including O'Hare, However, with regard to tourists, they get less of a deal paying $10 for a one day pass than paying $5.00 having the turnstile deduct from a stored value card.

However, this was the reason I mentioned that people working at O'Hare investigate 7 or 30 day passes.

In the CTA's case, the blame has to go directly to Quinn and Emanuel, who appointed people who do not meet statutory qualifications, and the results show what happens when that happens. However, Chicago or Illinois voters have shown little inclination to hold those two accountable for much of anything, and, in the transit area, except for those around Lincoln Ave., may be accepting the illusion Emanuel is trying to give that he is trying to improve the CTA. Six months later, I am still shocked that there wasn't a bigger outcry about shutting down the Dan Ryan Red Line.

As I mentioned earlier, the RTA is a more diffuse situation, in that other than the 5 directors appointed by the Mayor of Chicago, most of the rest are appointed by the various county board presidents or the county board members from suburban Cook.

I think at this point when it comes to the City or CTA too many take on this defeatist attitude that they're just going to do whatever the hell they want anyway that they'll b***h and moan for a brief moment and then it's all forgotten until it's too late to take said party to task when there was actual opportunity for it. Add that to promising jobs to aldermen of job deficient wards and you got CTA and the Mayor manipulating the situation down the path they were seeking to steer it from the beginning though with those tweaks here and there that get the aldermen on board.

[mkohut]

The more i was thinking about it doesn't make any sense.

If your spending 185 million to rehab the buses.

Why do you need 205 million to rehab the garages.

I can see building a new one on the southwest side so not wasteing money on fuel.

[geneking7320]

What percentage of CTA's fleet do you folks think should be 60ft artics?

I took the stats from this site and came of with approximately 11.6% [208/1787]

Gene King

[MetroShadow]

What percentage of CTA's fleet do you folks think should be 60ft artics?

I took the stats from this site and came of with approximately 11.6% [208/1787]

Gene King

This isn't accounting for the 4300's, however, 208 seems like a lot. Considering how they're used across the city, another 100 wouldn't be painful either. Just make sure they are stored somewhere...

[jajuan]

What percentage of CTA's fleet do you folks think should be 60ft artics?

I took the stats from this site and came of with approximately 11.6% [208/1787]

Gene King

That can best be answered by if you left the storage aspect aside, where could approximately 408 artics (we don't yet know if the final tally beyond what's here already will be an additional 200) be used efficiently without a good number of them running empty. Personally outside of the five month Dan Ryan project, which is supposed to be done by the time the other artics included in the up to 450 mixed order is likely set for delivery, I don't see too many places. That's when you especially consider December's "de-crowding plan" will decrease the north side express line up by two and rework another which is only artic heavy in the PM rush in such a way where artics may not be not be as full as thought. And we should also take into account three other routes from among the privately finanaced routes which are run by artics are being eliminated as well since it may be a given the private entities paying for them aren't looking to give CTA more money to keep them. So basically if five total routes minimum are getting the ax already with one more possibly getting restructured in a way where artics aren't necessarily as efficiently used as before, where among what's left can CTA make efficient use for 400-plus artics? I know some have been foaming over the talk of BRT on Ashland and Western but there is no real indication they'll have funding anytime soon to implement either, and that's casting aside my view that as evidenced in other cities that have true BRT service that BRT does not automatically mean artic buses.

[Busjack]

... I know some have been foaming over the talk of BRT on Ashland and Western but there is no real indication they'll have funding anytime soon to implement either, and that's casting aside my view that as evidenced in other cities that have true BRT service that BRT does not automatically mean artic buses.

The use of artics seems independent of foaming over BRT. I go back to the point made about 4 years ago that the original theory was a 3 for 4 replacement for 40 foot buses. We got the proportional reduction of the fleet in 2010, and it turned out that Huberman lied that that was the reason he just had to lease 150 buses. But I still maintain that, as an arbitrary measure, any route on the ridership report with more than 25,000 average daily passengers should get artics under that rationale. At the moment, that's 3, 4, 8. 9, 49, 66 . Close are 20, 63, and 77. 151 already has them, even though I would classify it as "close."

Besides that, it is a question of which lines have buses that are "packed to the gills."

Other than that, what brand of crack were CTA planners smoking when they advertised for "up to 900?"*

__________

*I forgot, it was Richie Daley's Mt. Olympus blend.

[jajuan]

The use of artics seems independent of foaming over BRT. I go back to the point made about 4 years ago that the original theory was a 3 for 4 replacement for 40 foot buses. We got the proportional reduction of the fleet in 2010, and it turned out that Huberman lied that that was the reason he just had to lease 150 buses. But I still maintain that, as an arbitrary measure, any route on the ridership report with more than 25,000 average daily passengers should get artics under that rationale. At the moment, that's 3, 4, 8. 9, 49, 66 . Close are 20, 63, and 77. 151 already has them, even though I would classify it as "close."

Besides that, it is a question of which lines have buses that are "packed to the gills."

Other than that, what brand of crack were CTA planners smoking when they advertised for "up to 900?"*

__________

*I forgot, it was Richie Daley's Mt. Olympus blend.

Valid but we also established that "packed to the gills" in many instances have a bit more to do with the bunching issue that they haven't given a credible look at working on. I could probably see spreading out 300 artics to alleviate some of that even if there were a credible solution to the bunching problem. 400 artics might not be as crazy as the up to 900 idiotic display but in some ways it's still pushing it just a bit if there is no true talk of expansion of service any time soon and just holding the line on keeping what they have already after the December 16th change goes into effect.

[Busjack]

Valid but we also established that "packed to the gills" in many instances have a bit more to do with the bunching issue that they haven't given a credible look at working on. I could probably see spreading out 300 artics to alleviate some of that even if there were a credible solution to the bunching problem. 400 artics might not be as crazy as the up to 900 idiotic display but in some ways it's still pushing it just a bit if there is no true talk of expansion of service any time soon and just holding the line on keeping what they have already after the December 16th change goes into effect.

But the 900 would have been added to the 150 already leased to get to 1050, which would have been ridiculous.

Bus bunching indicates that a route would pretty much have to be all artic., or the 40 footers would be overloaded while the 60 footers run empty.

I forgot 79 on my list, and, 3, 79, and 87 at one time had artics.

I am assuming only holding the line, but it appears that the rationale was again presented that one can reduce crowding without putting on more service by using 60 foot buses instead of 40.

[jajuan]

But the 900 would have been added to the 150 already leased to get to 1050, which would have been ridiculous.

Bus bunching indicates that a route would pretty much have to be all artic., or the 40 footers would be overloaded while the 60 footers run empty.

I forgot 79 on my list, and, 3, 79, and 87 at one time had artics.

I am assuming only holding the line, but it appears that the rationale was again presented that one can reduce crowding without putting on more service by using 60 foot buses instead of 40.

Right I realized that and as far as the up to 900 would be added to the 150 and was actually agree with you there. The larger point I'm making though is that I'm not saying that artics couldn't be used on the 77th and Chicago garage routes that have been brought up in other threads and posts, but the routes would still have to be shared by 40 foot buses whether our resident artic lovers like or realize that or not given the fleet would still have close to 1400 40 foot buses if not that. Yes we have some very busy local routes but not many to the scale that all the buses on the route efficiently all artic as opposed to a mix of the two.

[Busjack]

.... Yes we have some very busy local routes but not many to the scale that all the buses on the route efficiently all artic as opposed to a mix of the two.

Maybe, but it still seems like 200 more (or, with an option 250) would go a long way, and as I noted above, mixed service during certain day parts would not work.

I figure that it would take 45 buses to cover Western per the schedule (every 4 to 6 minutes, for a 3.5 hour round trip). 79 is harder to figure out, due to the short trips to Western, but would be similar.

[renardo870]

When 77th get the Artics again, the 2, 3, 4, 29* 79, 87 will more than likely get those routes. 103rd will shore up its lakefront routes 6, 14, 26, 28, 29 as well as its 95th feeder routes. MORE ARTICS WILL COME by MAY 2013 to both of these garages when the RED LINE shuts down and will run to the GREEN LINE...

KEDZIE AND NP will have plenty but CHICAGO AND 74TH will get some after they expand their facilities with what they need to service 60ft buses 20, 53, 54, 65, 66, 72 FROM CHICAGO AND 8, 9, 49, 55, 62, 63 FROM 74TH. As far as FG, they may build a completly brand new facility before they get any artics.

[jajuan]

Maybe, but it still seems like 200 more (or, with an option 250) would go a long way, and as I noted above, mixed service during certain day parts would not work.

I figure that it would take 45 buses to cover Western per the schedule (every 4 to 6 minutes, for a 3.5 hour round trip). 79 is harder to figure out, due to the short trips to Western, but would be similar.

And again it depends on the route in question. Plus we do have to keep in mind that there is the interlining issue to consider and how that plays into this. Plus we also have to remember that the Novas will soon be on their way out of the picture. Whether that's before or after the Dan Ryan project can be debated but they are going to be phased out as the mixed artic and 40 foot standard order starts to come in. Like it or not we might as well lose any illusion that there's not going to be any crowded bus on the road ever. Regardless of how the total 400 is distributed among the garages, I don't see a big change from the current pattern of just over 200 for use on Lake Shore Drive and among busy local routes where those Lake Shore routes are assigned, leaving 200 to spread elsewhere. So sorry I don't see a big full scale change of routes going full artic. Not when two thirds to three quarters of the bus fleet will still be 40 standard buses.

[Busjack]

.. So sorry I don't see a big full scale change of routes going full artic. Not when two thirds to three quarters of the bus fleet will still be 40 standard buses.

Depends on the perspective. You see only 1/4 of the fleet, I see at least 408 buses, maybe 458, 200-250 new.

Theoretically, there are 110 or so routes, so making a few (maybe 5) all artic doesn't make much a dent into that.

[sw4400]

When 77th get the Artics again, the 2, 3, 4, 29* 79, 87 will more than likely get those routes. 103rd will shore up its lakefront routes 6, 14, 26, 28, 29 as well as its 95th feeder routes. MORE ARTICS WILL COME by MAY 2013 to both of these garages when the RED LINE shuts down and will run to the GREEN LINE...

KEDZIE AND NP will have plenty but CHICAGO AND 74TH will get some after they expand their facilities with what they need to service 60ft buses 20, 53, 54, 65, 66, 72 FROM CHICAGO AND 8, 9, 49, 55, 62, 63 FROM 74TH. As far as FG, they may build a completly brand new facility before they get any artics.

Has anyone noticed that the 4300's might be taller than the 4000's? That sidewall/A/C Unit/Roof Pod, whatever you call it looks to add 1-2' of height on the bus. Some of the low clearance viaducts won't be able to allow the 4300's access.

[Busjack]

Has anyone noticed that the 4300's might be taller than the 4000's? That sidewall/A/C Unit/Roof Pod, whatever you call it looks to add 1-2' of height on the bus. Some of the low clearance viaducts won't be able to allow the 4300's access.

New Flyer specs say 128.5 for the hybrid LFR, Shouldn't make much difference if they use skirts to hide the rooftop equipment.

[artthouwill]

If you guys dont like it buy a car and drive it, see how much you spend on that in a week! I should b***h at bp that i have to spend $80.00 a week in fuel just to drive to work!

You musr be Rahm's Press Secretary.