Ventra - Feedback and Updates

[MetroShadow]

On 11/23/2015, 4:25:49, Pace831 said:

Here's an example of the generic "Pace Route". In this case the cause seemed to be that the operator was unable to log in properly. She and the driver she was relieving spent about 5 minutes trying to figure it out until they called someone to get a solution, which had something to do with keys. During this process the sign went from normal to "TO Garage" to blank and then back to normal when they figured it out. Then once the bus got to Stateville I saw the operator pushing buttons and the Ventra reader changed to "Not in use", and remained that way for the rest of the trip. Nothing happened on the return trip on the same bus.

Whatever was going on, I had to pay an extra quarter because of it, since transfers in Joliet are supposed to be free!

Me thinks they've still been working that issue out.

As for the app itself, I've been on the testing side of the app over the last year; and the only issue I have seen/heard on the android side was trying to access the app from the app store; wasn't so much the functionality (then again, this was last month). With the iPhone side, I've had to break the thing in order to see if it works, and the good news is that it was functional to use and easy to access (save for a slow server or an issue with the placement of where the farecards could be made). Glad that the transition went well.

/and I'm proud that I caught the stop ID malfunction early in testing mode.
// Only one of us in the forum lives in Phoenix and really have no use for CTA service at Sky Harbor Airport.

[Pace831]

6 minutes ago, Busjack said:

 sw had a write up about his dealing with Ventra sales behind the Customer Service counter at Jewel. but the Jewels by me don't carry it.

Putting them in Ventra stations requires an intergovernmental agreement, and, as you note, most suburban Ventra stations don't have TVRs, basically because Metra does not accept the card.

 

By the way, the legislature mandated a universal card system, including contact cards, by Jan. 1, 2015.However, I doubt that the contemptible  General Assembly will hold the RTA in contempt.

"The system must allow consumers to use
contactless credit cards, debit cards, and prepaid cards to pay
for all fixed-route public transportation services."

Metra's interpretation of this was that they already are in compliance because of the prepaid debit function of a Ventra card, also that the law doesn't specify that the same card must be valid at all three agencies. As you likely remember, that argument was shot down, especially considering that anyone getting on outside of downtown after morning hours has no choice but to pay cash.

[Pace831]

30 minutes ago, Busjack said:

sw had a write up about his dealing with Ventra sales behind the Customer Service counter at Jewel.

Here's that post.

[MarioM]

7 hours ago, Pace831 said:

The first incentive was when they stopped issuing paper transfers. The reason for not doing the fare increase at that time probably had something to do with people in far suburbs lacking access to a place to add value to their card, other than online. There are still more people than we realize without internet at home, especially seniors who are an important bus-riding demographic. Out here in Joliet, most people didn't get a card until a week or two before they stopped issuing transfers. Even 6 months later, there were still a good number of people who were surprised to hear there were no more transfers, despite the outreach campaigns.

If you have a credit/debit card, you can add transit value and passes by phone (regular voice phone, not new-fangled smart phones) by calling 1-877-NOW-VENT,  You can also order a card or register a card over the phone.

[Busjack]

Get it back to the correct topic:

13 hours ago, Pace831 said:

"The system must allow consumers to use
contactless credit cards, debit cards, and prepaid cards to pay
for all fixed-route public transportation services."

Metra's interpretation of this was that they already are in compliance because of the prepaid debit function of a Ventra card, also that the law doesn't specify that the same card must be valid at all three agencies. As you likely remember, that argument was shot down, especially considering that anyone getting on outside of downtown after morning hours has no choice but to pay cash.

"All" means "all." Also, this was part of a paragraph on a required "regional fare payment system".

As you noted, the debit card argument didn't fly, and it is being disclaimed that the app meets the requirement.

For that matter, where is the regional transfer policy required by the preceding paragraph of the law (rhetorical question)? Mike Payne wants to know.

6 hours ago, MarioM said:

If you have a credit/debit card, you can add transit value and passes by phone (regular voice phone, not new-fangled smart phones) by calling 1-877-NOW-VENT,  You can also order a card or register a card over the phone.

Cubic thanks you for the commercial,. Mario. If you had read what preceded your post, will calling them get $1.75 transferred immediately to your transit value, or do you have to transfer $5 and risk the dormancy fee? And does Ventra ship a card by drone immediately when you need it? The point of the original post was that vending means (TVRs and merchants) were not as available in the suburbs.

[jajuan]

9 hours ago, MarioM said:

If you have a credit/debit card, you can add transit value and passes by phone (regular voice phone, not new-fangled smart phones) by calling 1-877-NOW-VENT,  You can also order a card or register a card over the phone.

You only have to get past the mistrust some folks have about their credit/debit card info being shared by phone. And Busjack reminded us that the system was supposed to be completely universal as of this past Friday. So on that side of it, are the Ventra readers even compatible with the newer updated chips that banks have been installing in credit and debit cards since the big data breach debacles with Target and a few other retailers occurred over a year ago? 

[Busjack]

22 minutes ago, jajuan said:

You only have to get past the mistrust some folks have about their credit/debit card info being shared by phone. And Busjack reminded us that the system was supposed to be completely universal as of this past Friday. So on that side of it, are the Ventra readers even compatible with the newer updated chips that banks have been installing in credit and debit cards since the big data breach debacles with Target and a few other retailers occurred over a year ago? 

As of a year ago last Friday.

On the reader point, Scooter Libbby pointed out on the CTA Tattler that these were not EMV chips. However, given how  slow boarding is already, I don't see how transit could wait for the time it takes for the chip to get the info it needs,* and then give the user the message that one can remove the card from the slot.

*A receipt I got from Trader Joe's has five return codes.

[BusHunter]

The way they make your smart phone a Ventra machine in these ads, I would bet that they will phase out some machines soon. It's getting where if you don't have a smart phone or debit card you can't ride the bus or train.

[Kevin]

38 minutes ago, jajuan said:

You only have to get past the mistrust some folks have about their credit/debit card info being shared by phone.

Which is probably the easiest way to obtain stolen credit card numbers. Just ask Miranda Smith.

10 minutes ago, Busjack said:

As of a year ago last Friday.

On the reader point, Scooter Libbby pointed out on the CTA Tattler that these were not EMV chips. However, given how  slow boarding is already, I don't see how transit could wait for the time it takes for the chip to get the info it needs,* and then give the user the message that one can remove the card from the slot.

*A receipt I got from Trader Joe's has five return codes.

The Ventra fare readers are not subject to the EMV liability deadline (which went into effect October 1, 2015). That liability shift only applies to magnetic stripe transactions. Contactless transactions are subject to different processing rules.

It's the Ventra vending machines that are affected by the liability shift. In this case, the mag stripe card reader would need to be swapped out with an EMV-compatible reader. As of last October, Ventra/CTA could be liable for transactions performed at these machines with counterfeit credit cards.*

––

* Specifically, liability would apply to Ventra if someone "skimmed" mag stripe data from a chip-enabled card and then made a counterfeit mag stripe-only card with that information. An EMV-enabled terminal would know that the card is supposed to have a chip, and therefore would refuse to process the transaction. A mag-stripe only terminal would happily process the counterfeit card. Ventra does protect itself slightly by requiring a zip code, but that could be guessable by using the same zip code of the location of where the cards were skimmed.

[Busjack]

48 minutes ago, Kevin said:

The Ventra fare readers are not subject to the EMV liability deadline (which went into effect October 1, 2015). That liability shift only applies to magnetic stripe transactions. Contactless transactions are subject to different processing rules.

My point wasn't whether CTA or Cubic had any liability for transactions on fraudulent Ventra cards, but the physical impracticability of using EMV cards on readers at turnstiles or bus entrances.

A related point, which I made in connection with a much earlier discussion with you (but not directly involving Ventra), was that I couldn't see sticking and keeping an EMV card in a gas pump, and I read somewhere that that deadline had been postponed.

48 minutes ago, Kevin said:

It's the Ventra vending machines that are affected by the liability shift. In this case, the mag stripe card reader would need to be swapped out with an EMV-compatible reader.

Again, not directly in point, very few places have activated the EMV slot, and Trader Joe's was the only one where the cashier directed me to use it. On the other hand, Fresh Thyme has "no chip" taped over the slot.

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

As of a year ago last Friday.

On the reader point, Scooter Libbby pointed out on the CTA Tattler that these were not EMV chips. However, given how  slow boarding is already, I don't see how transit could wait for the time it takes for the chip to get the info it needs,* and then give the user the message that one can remove the card from the slot.

*A receipt I got from Trader Joe's has five return codes.

Oops my brain was still stuck in 2015 there. And basically you were right about a year ago that the banks were taking the debit/credit part of universal in the opposite direction when you said that in response to Chase and others discontinuing blink cards and having temporarily issued chipless cards while they worked on getting EMV chip cards available to their customers. 

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

The way they make your smart phone a Ventra machine in these ads, I would bet that they will phase out some machines soon. It's getting where if you don't have a smart phone or debit card you can't ride the bus or train.

That could only happen in the city though as the point has been made by many of our suburban friends that vending machine availability in the burbs is already sparse.

50 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Which is probably the easiest way to obtain stolen credit card numbers. Just ask Miranda Smith.

The Ventra fare readers are not subject to the EMV liability deadline (which went into effect October 1, 2015). That liability shift only applies to magnetic stripe transactions. Contactless transactions are subject to different processing rules.

It's the Ventra vending machines that are affected by the liability shift. In this case, the mag stripe card reader would need to be swapped out with an EMV-compatible reader. As of last October, Ventra/CTA could be liable for transactions performed at these machines with counterfeit credit cards.*

––

* Specifically, liability would apply to Ventra if someone "skimmed" mag stripe data from a chip-enabled card and then made a counterfeit mag stripe-only card with that information. An EMV-enabled terminal would know that the card is supposed to have a chip, and therefore would refuse to process the transaction. A mag-stripe only terminal would happily process the counterfeit card. Ventra does protect itself slightly by requiring a zip code, but that could be guessable by using the same zip code of the location of where the cards were skimmed.

The vending machine part of your response is precisely why I stick with using my smart phone to reload my card and almost never use a physical vending machine at the L stations or other locations for reloading or checking my card. 

[Kevin]

26 minutes ago, Busjack said:

My point wasn't whether CTA or Cubic had any liability for transactions on fraudulent Ventra cards, but the physical impracticability of using EMV cards on readers at turnstiles or bus entrances.

Understood. I was mostly responding to jajuan's inquiry regarding fare reader compatibility with EMV chips, pointing out that it's not an issue in this scenario.

[Busjack]

I see that both CTA (Press Release) and Pace (Moving Forward) are both touting that Metra has had the 1 millionth ride using the Ventra app, which I find curious because the app can't be used directly to get a ride on CTA or Pace until the NFID feature is implemented.

[Busjack]

On 1/7/2016 at 3:25 PM, Busjack said:

Again, not directly in point, very few places have activated the EMV slot, and Trader Joe's was the only one where the cashier directed me to use it. On the other hand, Fresh Thyme has "no chip" taped over the slot.

 Another interesting sidelight--the local Jewel (which looks like a Dominick's) had a card stuck in the slot, saying "Coming Soon."

[rondell]

I'm wondering if anyone else has had problems with their Ventra cards or tickets in the last 2 1/2 years. Leave me answers 

[strictures]

4 hours ago, rondell said:

I'm wondering if anyone else has had problems with their Ventra cards or tickets in the last 2 1/2 years. Leave me answers 

Who hasn't had problems with Ventra cards?

The biggest problem is on CTA buses that have trouble making contact with whatever cellular provider that Ventra uses. If the bus can't make contact, then you get repeated "Tap Again" notice on the card reader. I have the occasional trouble even at L stations, where I thought it was a wired connection. Then you have to complain & they send out someone to check out that turnstile. When I first got the card, the east turnstile at Granville never worked for me & I've always used the west one, as I have no idea if they've fixed it in all that time!

[BusHunter]

I learned something sneaky that Ventra is doing. When you enter a station if you exit like you forgot something or whatever and re enter within 10-15 minutes ventra will charge you the $2.25 regardless of if you're on a pass or whatever. This happened to me twice but I caught up with it last time. I was at Wilson/Red I boarded and looking at the station wanted to see something at street level so I boarded again after taking pictures at street level.  It charged me. I was thinking why would they do this and it must be because of the fraudulent card use, people sharing passes or whatever, they have decided to charge anyone that boards twice. Instead of denying you with a pass back or repeat use error something like the old magnetic stripped cards used to do, they nonchalantly let you pass through. You think you are Ok until you see the bill!! Sneaky ain't it!!

[Pace831]

9 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I learned something sneaky that Ventra is doing. When you enter a station if you exit like you forgot something or whatever and re enter within 10-15 minutes ventra will charge you the $2.25 regardless of if you're on a pass or whatever. This happened to me twice but I caught up with it last time. I was at Wilson/Red I boarded and looking at the station wanted to see something at street level so I boarded again after taking pictures at street level.  It charged me. I was thinking why would they do this and it must be because of the fraudulent card use, people sharing passes or whatever, they have decided to charge anyone that boards twice. Instead of denying you with a pass back or repeat use error something like the old magnetic stripped cards used to do, they nonchalantly let you pass through. You think you are Ok until you see the bill!! Sneaky ain't it!!

You pretty much got the reason correct. If you use your card within a certain amount of time at the same station (15 minutes, if I remember previous discussions correctly), the system thinks you passed the card back to a second rider and charges the full fare.

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, BusHunter said:

I learned something sneaky that Ventra is doing. When you enter a station if you exit like you forgot something or whatever and re enter within 10-15 minutes ventra will charge you the $2.25 regardless of if you're on a pass or whatever. This happened to me twice but I caught up with it last time. I was at Wilson/Red I boarded and looking at the station wanted to see something at street level so I boarded again after taking pictures at street level.  It charged me. I was thinking why would they do this and it must be because of the fraudulent card use, people sharing passes or whatever, they have decided to charge anyone that boards twice. Instead of denying you with a pass back or repeat use error something like the old magnetic stripped cards used to do, they nonchalantly let you pass through. You think you are Ok until you see the bill!! Sneaky ain't it!!

Why not just use the auxiliary entrance for one of the boardings.  That should be the workaround for that. 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Why not just use the auxiliary entrance for one of the boardings.  That should be the workaround for that. 

Depends on whether the auxiliary entrance is still considered the same station (and whether the station has one).

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Why not just use the auxiliary entrance for one of the boardings.  That should be the workaround for that. 

I did just that, it doesn't matter, first boarding was at the broadway station house second boarding was on Wilson south entrance.

[Busjack]

Daily Herald article that someone hacked the Ventra app., but not in a particularly interesting way.

[Pace831]

Has anyone else seen "READ None" in their transaction history? I got on the bus and tapped my card, heard the tone that the reader had detected the card, then I noticed it said Not In Use. The driver seemed surprised, like he'd never seen that before. He asked me to try again, so I did and the same thing happened. So apparently the reader could recognize my card but not collect a fare.

[BusHunter]

What Ventra topic? (and I don't know how to move quotes between topics either!! ) I've only been here 8 years, but I guess I'm a slow learner. 

Yeah, the latest gimmick I've come across is when your pass is going to expire, Pace tells you that the card expired early and you have insufficient funds. Like wth, what if I'm out somewhere and don't have change. I knock on busjack's door and say "please help someone"

[sw4400]

15 minutes ago, garmon757 said:

That's been an ongoing issue on the entire Ventra system because I had that pathetic problem on both CTA and Pace buses, especially when I was trying to use it on #352 but it kept on saying insufficient funds. Like how is that possible if I had $54.00 on my card???

(Reply back on the Ventra Topic)

It's probably the chip is temporarily unreadable or the card is damaged if it doesn't read at all, period. Sometimes when I tap the card for a customer at Jewel to add balance or a new pass, it says "Receive Error" and I have to do it again(and maybe again) until it reads the balance and any passes on there so I can add more cash value or another pass.