Random Pace

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, MetroShadow said:

(Would it make sense to even combine 301 and 305 to OakBrook or Ardmore, and a revamped 747 (335x) to Wheaton?)

Wheaton  itself is served by Metra. I don't know how much local passenger traffic is between Wheaton and Oakbrook. Villa Park to Wheaton is covered by Metra.

At one time, 747 was extended to St. Charles, not so much as a feeder to Forest Park, but to offer a cross DuPage route, but that didn't work. One of the issues brought up with extending service in DuPage (whether this 747 service, or more lately 711, 715) is that Pace doesn't have a bus garage in DuPage, and hence any local bus would probably have to be a contract operation.

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

Wheaton  itself is served by Metra. I don't know how much local passenger traffic is between Wheaton and Oakbrook. Villa Park to Wheaton is covered by Metra.

At one time, 747 was extended to St. Charles, not so much as a feeder to Forest Park, but to offer a cross DuPage route, but that didn't work. One of the issues brought up with extending service in DuPage (whether this 747 service, or more lately 711, 715) is that Pace doesn't have a bus garage in DuPage, and hence any local bus would probably have to be a contract operation.

The 747 had decent ridership between Wheaton and Ardmore,  but the bulk if the ridership was east if Ardmore.   I believe the combi hurt the ridership though it could be argued other factors could be involved. It seems like 876 and 888 also suffered ridership losses and all of these were pre COVID. 

Perhaps the 301 may have managed to keep some ridership had the bus stayed on Roosevelt between Wolf and York Rd.  However the issue would be that the 301 wouldn't serve Proviso West High School and Edward's Elmhurst Hospital. 

I once ride the 747 from Forest Park to Charleston Mall.  There was one or two passengers other than me West of Wheaton Metra and I was the only one from Winfield to St Charles.   The mall wasn't a generator and I had a wait >very an hour to connect to the 802. 

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

....

I once ride the 747 from Forest Park to Charleston Mall.  There was one or two passengers other than me West of Wheaton Metra and I was the only one from Winfield to St Charles.   The mall wasn't a generator and I had a wait >very an hour to connect to the 802. 

Charlestowne Mall is now demolished, and the above is an indication why.

[NewFlyerMCI]

https://www.masstransitmag.com/bus/vehicles/hybrid-hydrogen-electric-vehicles/press-release/21257192/eldorado-national-enc-announces-first-order-of-six-axess-battery-electric-zero-emission-buses

Didn't know ENC made BEBs, so this now brings the count of BEB manufacturers to 5, since al of the big 4 now make a BEB + proterra.

This also means we know who's a very likely bidder for any future electric order 

[cityguy426]

I was looking through the web page of suburban bus history on the Chicago Rail Fan website and the following route caught my attention.

667 - La Grange Park-Stone Avenue - rush hour feeder route introduced 11/20/78, discontinued 2/25/83. Was operated under contract by Valley Transit, later by Our Town Bus Co.

https://www.chicagorailfan.com/sbus640.html

Does anyone know where I can find more information on this route? I'd specifically be interested in knowing what streets the route followed. I tried to looking at the old scanned transit maps that are available on the IRM website, but none of them seem to show a route 667.

http://irm-cta.org/RouteMaps/RouteMapsCTA2.html

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, cityguy426 said:

I was looking through the web page of suburban bus history on the Chicago Rail Fan website and the following route caught my attention.

667 - La Grange Park-Stone Avenue - rush hour feeder route introduced 11/20/78, discontinued 2/25/83. Was operated under contract by Valley Transit, later by Our Town Bus Co.

https://www.chicagorailfan.com/sbus640.html

Does anyone know where I can find more information on this route? I'd specifically be interested in knowing what streets the route followed. I tried to looking at the old scanned transit maps that are available on the IRM website, but none of them seem to show a route 667.

http://irm-cta.org/RouteMaps/RouteMapsCTA2.html

Looking at your first link there are two 667routes.  There's the Lagrange Park Stone Ave route and then there's an Oakbrook Hinsdale route.  I thought the number system was started by Pace. I guess its possible that the RTA started it.  However the numbered system supports a 667 Oakbrook Hinsdale route as it was a feeder route operating in DuPage County.   Lagrange Park is clearly in Cook County.   Obviously the route existed. But when/if/how the route was numbered 667 is unclear.   Pace wasn't established until 1983 or so by which time the route in question was long discontinued. 

My memory is getting crazy but I remember Nortran having route numbers in the 200s prior to Pace's existence.  I read somewhere that West Towns had a numbered system that Pace kept intact but added a 3 in front.  So 1 Roosevelt became 301 Roosevelt.  Prior to Pace. South Suburban Safeway and Southwest Transit Systems didn't have route numbers displayed to my recollection.   I don't know about the other Suburban systems or contractors prior to Pace. 

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, cityguy426 said:

I was looking through the web page of suburban bus history on the Chicago Rail Fan website and the following route caught my attention.

667 - La Grange Park-Stone Avenue - rush hour feeder route introduced 11/20/78, discontinued 2/25/83. Was operated under contract by Valley Transit, later by Our Town Bus Co.

https://www.chicagorailfan.com/sbus640.htm

I don't have personal knowledge of the route, but Stone Ave. is the next station west of La Grange Road, so it must have run in western LaGrange.

6 hours ago, artthouwill said:

...I thought the number sLystem was started by Pace. I guess its possible that the RTA started it.  However the numbered system supports a 667 Oakbrook Hinsdale route as it was a feeder route operating in DuPage County.   Lagrange Park is clearly in Cook County.   Obviously the route existed. But when/if/how the route was numbered 667 is unclear.   Pace wasn't established until 1983 or so by which time the route in question was long discontinued. 

My memory is getting crazy but I remember Nortran having route numbers in the 200s prior to Pace's existence.  I read somewhere that West Towns had a numbered system that Pace kept intact but added a 3 in front.  So 1 Roosevelt became 301 Roosevelt.  Prior to Pace. South Suburban Safeway and Southwest Transit Systems didn't have route numbers displayed to my recollection.   I don't know about the other Suburban systems or contractors prior to Pace. 

The original numbering system was on a CTA Map circa. 1971, only covering routes in the area still encompassed on CTA maps (IRM archive). Evanston was 200s, Glenview was 250s, NORTRAN was 300s. The general southwest area around La Grange was in the 550s and 600s. The collar counties were essentially out of that numbering system.

The RTA adopted the current numbering system around the time it was founded. The first map in the IRM archive is from 1976. It was then based on the private companies or Mass Transit Districts, as the RTA didn't directly operate service until the late1970s. Pace assumed responsibility and the numbering system in 1984.

[cityguy426]

16 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Looking at your first link there are two 667routes.  There's the Lagrange Park Stone Ave route and then there's an Oakbrook Hinsdale route.  I thought the number system was started by Pace. I guess its possible that the RTA started it.  However the numbered system supports a 667 Oakbrook Hinsdale route as it was a feeder route operating in DuPage County.   Lagrange Park is clearly in Cook County.   Obviously the route existed. But when/if/how the route was numbered 667 is unclear.   Pace wasn't established until 1983 or so by which time the route in question was long discontinued. 

My memory is getting crazy but I remember Nortran having route numbers in the 200s prior to Pace's existence.  I read somewhere that West Towns had a numbered system that Pace kept intact but added a 3 in front.  So 1 Roosevelt became 301 Roosevelt.  Prior to Pace. South Suburban Safeway and Southwest Transit Systems didn't have route numbers displayed to my recollection.   I don't know about the other Suburban systems or contractors prior to Pace. 

Good points. 

I did notice that the La Grange 667 is listed as running from 1978 to 1983 while the Oak Brook 667 is listed as running from 1988 until 1990. I assume the route number was recycled/reused. Were Pace or the predecessor bus companies known to discontinue routes and then recycle/reuse the numbers?

[cityguy426]

10 hours ago, Busjack said:

I don't have personal knowledge of the route, but Stone Ave. is the next station west of La Grange Road, so it must have run in western LaGrange.

The original numbering system was on a CTA Map circa. 1971, only covering routes in the area still encompassed on CTA maps (IRM archive). Evanston was 200s, Glenview was 250s, NORTRAN was 300s. The general southwest area around La Grange was in the 550s and 600s. The collar counties were essentially out of that numbering system.

The RTA adopted the current numbering system around the time it was founded. The first map in the IRM archive is from 1976. It was then based on the private companies or Mass Transit Districts, as the RTA didn't directly operate service until the late1970s. Pace assumed responsibility and the numbering system in 1984.

I also took a look at the RTA maps that are found on the IRM website. I unfortunately couldn't locate the La Grange route 667 on there either. 

http://irm-cta.org/RouteMaps/RTA/RTA.html

 

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, cityguy426 said:

I also took a look at the RTA maps that are found on the IRM website. I unfortunately couldn't locate the La Grange route 667 on there either. 

http://irm-cta.org/RouteMaps/RTA/RTA.html

 

Yeah the Chicago railfan site covers all 3 service histories but the CTA irm site only gives the maps and other details for CTA I'm not too sure about a pace version. 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

Yeah the Chicago railfan site covers all 3 service histories but the CTA irm site only gives the maps and other details for CTA I'm not too sure about a pace version. 

As @cityguy426pointed out, there is an RTA page on the IRM site. There's nothing going into Stone Ave. on any of them. The only thing close to Stone Ave. is 668 on this 1985 map.

The route histories on Chicago Transit and Railfan were compiled by @andrethebusman. Maybe he can chime in.

330, which was established by the RTA, seems to cover the territory. My guess, given the unfamiliar operator name, is that it might have been a private route not subsidized by the RTA.

[Policeman]

Idk if this is rare but 6514 is on the 250

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Policeman said:

Idk if this is rare but 6514 is on the 250

On the surface it is rare 

  However you must remember that Dempster is going to be the next Pulse route.  Pace has relocated some bus stops temporarily to construct bus "stations " for the Pulse service.   I believe there are 10 Pulse buses and Milwaukee Pulse only requires 5 in service 

  At some point Pace will actually implement Pulse service on Dempster 

Actually thinking about it,  these buses have been on 250 before Pulse service ever started 

  These buses weren't wrapped until the Pulse Milwaukee service started,  but at least 3 of the nuses were on 250 daily prior to being wrapped and the launch of Pulse Milwaukee.  We will see what happens with these once the CNG Pulse buses show up next year. 

 

[Policeman]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

On the surface it is rare 

  However you must remember that Dempster is going to be the next Pulse route.  Pace has relocated some bus stops temporarily to construct bus "stations " for the Pulse service.   I believe there are 10 Pulse buses and Milwaukee Pulse only requires 5 in service 

  At some point Pace will actually implement Pulse service on Dempster 

Actually thinking about it,  these buses have been on 250 before Pulse service ever started 

  These buses weren't wrapped until the Pulse Milwaukee service started,  but at least 3 of the nuses were on 250 daily prior to being wrapped and the launch of Pulse Milwaukee.  We will see what happens with these once the CNG Pulse buses show up next year. 

 

Thanks for the info

[pudgym29]

On 4/8/2022 at 2:44 PM, artthouwill said:

On the surface it is rare 

  However you must remember that Dempster is going to be the next Pulse route.  Pace has relocated some bus stops temporarily to construct bus "stations " for the Pulse service.   I believe there are 10 Pulse buses and Milwaukee Pulse only requires 5 in service 

  At some point Pace will actually implement Pulse service on Dempster 

Actually thinking about it,  these buses have been on 250 before Pulse service ever started 

  These buses weren't wrapped until the Pulse Milwaukee service started,  but at least 3 of the buses were on 250 daily prior to being wrapped and the launch of Pulse Milwaukee.  We will see what happens with these once the CNG Pulse buses show up next year. 

Yes. Here is a photo of Pace #6510 before and after it was wrapped.

 

 

[andrethebusman]

The route numbers as we know them date from 1976. 200-300 inner main lines, 400s inner minor operators, 500s ring cities, 600-700s train feeders, 800s interurbans. A few 600s predated RTA, mainly Schaumburg and Libertyville-Mundelein 611 (which appears to date from 1963!). Some others like Glen Ellyn and Naperville might have existed pre RTA, but the big push was in early RTA days. After 600s used up, started using 700s. Also note some 400s were actually feeders, like 430s in Wheeling, 450s in Homewood, 460s in Downers Grove, but they all had at least some midday service, where no 600s did.

[artthouwill]

I don't know if anyone else feels this way,  but I feel like the 385 is one of Pace's craziest routes.  I think it should be split at Moraine Valley.   The route between Midway and MV can keep the 385 designation.  The remainder of the route can either get a new number or be combined with the 348.  That might be a longer route but it makes more sense than the current 385.

[Busjack]

18 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I don't know if anyone else feels this way,  but I feel like the 385 is one of Pace's craziest routes.  I think it should be split at Moraine Valley.   The route between Midway and MV can keep the 385 designation.  The remainder of the route can either get a new number or be combined with the 348.  That might be a longer route but it makes more sense than the current 385.

It looks like 385 was designed basically to avoid CTA territory, but I agree that the more recent extension to Crestwood looks a little strange.

[artthouwill]

11 hours ago, Busjack said:

It looks like 385 was designed basically to avoid CTA territory, but I agree that the more recent extension to Crestwood looks a little strange.

The only justifiable reason for that is possibly to provide a connection between the 383 and the 385 since it's not feasible at 127th and Cicero due to the right turn lanes and the right lane entrances and exit to and from the Tri State.

[urbanguy0508]

Does anyone know where I can find the schedule and map brochures for Pace's former 655 route?

It seems as if they weren't captured by the Wayback Machine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20091209111737/http://pacebus.com/sub/schedules/route_detail.asp?RouteNo=655

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

Stops were

Pace P-n-R Bollingbrook (Pace 755, 855)

Branding/ Finley Downers Grove (Pace 313, 715, 834, 877, 888)

Addison Walmart P-n-R (Pace 711, 715)

The Chancellory P-n-R, Itasca (Pace 616)

NWTC (Pace 208, 554, 600, 606, 696, 699, 757)

6 journeys northbound am, southbound pm stopping at all stops

4 journeys southbound am, northbound pm non-stop from NWTC to Bollingbrook

 

 

11 hours ago, urbanguy0508 said:

Does anyone know where I can find the schedule and map brochures for Pace's former 655 route?

It seems as if they weren't captured by the Wayback Machine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20091209111737/http://pacebus.com/sub/schedules/route_detail.asp?RouteNo=655

 

[Kevin]

Tracker discussion has been moved.

[Busjack]

On 5/26/2022 at 8:52 PM, artthouwill said:

I don't know if anyone else feels this way,  but I feel like the 385 is one of Pace's craziest routes.  I think it should be split at Moraine Valley.   The route between Midway and MV can keep the 385 designation.  The remainder of the route can either get a new number or be combined with the 348.  That might be a longer route but it makes more sense than the current 385.

Turns out that the report @MetroShadow cited made that suggestion to extend 348.

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

Turns out that the report @MetroShadow cited made that suggestion to extend 348.

I didn't get to that part yet.  But looking at the route descriptions brought back memories.

353 running down King Drive 

355 running downtown 

370 before being combined with the 352 

[NewFlyerMCI]

On 5/26/2022 at 10:15 PM, Busjack said:

It looks like 385 was designed basically to avoid CTA territory, but I agree that the more recent extension to Crestwood looks a little strange.

I made a map a while back (looking at the date, it was exactly the day you made this comment lol) where I drew out what changed Pace & CTA should make to bus routes. I think I had the 385 still doing the detour to MV, but redid the route thru Robbins, and extended it to the future 130th station. I then created a new 127th st route, which partially replaced the Crestwood routing. I think some further ideas were exchanged on twitter, but I forgot to update the map.

Extending the 348 might have some merit, especially if it gives Blue Island a CTA connection.