Busjack Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Well the NTSB has concluded that the trip stops were too close to stop the train. Still doesn't get the Operator off the hook as she is just as responsible, but that's beyond the fact now as she's terminated. Story CSN Chicago is a strange place for this, but there is a link to the official version of the preliminary report. What seems contradictory there is that it says that the operator says she woke up just after passing the track trip, while most of the reports were that the crash woke her up. That probably gets down to while the track trip was ineffective to stop the train, why she couldn't. I bet she was asleep from the Yellow over Red to the escalator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Well the NTSB has concluded that the trip stops were too close to stop the train. Still doesn't get the Operator off the hook as she is just as responsible, but that's beyond the fact now as she's terminated. Story We already know her fault in this whole mess. That part of the NTSB's investigation isn't about taking any fault off her hands but finding out CTA's role in this and what things they need to correct on the infrastructure side since the trips obviously didn't do their part to minimize the damage she caused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 We already know her fault in this whole mess. That part of the NTSB's investigation isn't about taking any fault off her hands but finding out CTA's role in this and what things they need to correct on the infrastructure side since the trips obviously didn't do their part to minimize the damage she caused. That was more directed at a certain Union rep who said she was asleep at the controls, then proceeded to blame everyone/everything but her(the train and emergency stop trips which the NTSB concluded were too close, her schedule) He essentially threw her under the bus, then proceeded to take her out from under that bus, put her career on life support and tell CTA you can't terminate her without a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleTransit1 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Not one person took me up what I wrote. A few kept trying to equate to some experience, retail or big box. The "L" is transportation; it is not chains or retail. Talk to other transportation people, if you know any. Or, like Busjack, speak or talk to union people or union ideas. But, NOW; that is water under the bridge'...."she's gone." I am not rehashing this allover. I would offer some words from Jajuan....."Now that CTA has corrected one wrong, how about all of us start calming down, taking a step back, and let NTSB finish its investigation as to what were the other contributing factors for this train to go catapulting over that bumper and climbing part of the way of up those stairs and escalator." Good words. Now the photo! And no one evidently knows how to run a "L" train, LOL. OK! Let me say, it's not like driving a car, LOL. So what is wrong in the picture showing the front door off the platform? Nothing!!! The operator secured the doorway. He directed passengers to the rear door. He shut the front door off. Then he opened the remainder doors. Whoever the operator reported to.....supervisor, instructor, station manager; the question asked of the operator remains the same....question was asked...."What you do?" The operator explained.... Motormen/operators are taught to handle their skills well; taught to troubleshoot; and taught to handle any situation that is not the ordinary. The controls........ Cincinnati 4200 series....... reverser/ throttle and brake valve. Both used to control train, not like the single control used today. Believe it or not, on my qualification, with a motoman and a instructor on the head end, I picked up a heavy load, ran a A / B skip- stop, braked for the second stop, braked some more, I saw we won't gonna take it.......then put it in the "hole"; put the first two doors out the platform. Did I fail? No. Why? Because I followed my training; I followed rules established for this unordinary event. "Three buzzes to my conductor....Don't open the doors." True story! Part two, coming. What is it like, driving? Look, if this was done by an operator who had TONS of experience and training, in my opinion, I don't think CTA would fire the employee. If this was the work of an operator just as similar to the now-fired operator who had only 2 months of work on the rails, they would be fired. The only similarity is that CTA would place new guidelines and reduce speed limits only to prevent accidents like the O'Hare drailment ever occuring again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleTransit1 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 News flash. The Feds have come with an update. One question that has come up.......why was the speed 25 mph into the terminal? One theory is that when O'Hare opened, the CTA used to operate two car trains and the feeling was that the two car trains might get stuck in the third rail gaps because of the long single and double slip-track switches used in the interlockings at O'Hare. The CTA began using four car trains after a certain date and no longer used two car trains. With four cars, at least two of the four cars would have power. But, the speed remained unchanged. I don't know. I was at O'Hare about nearly 2 weeks before the accident, and when the train I was on was in the middle track, the train was slow getting in and out of the station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 That was more directed at a certain Union rep who said she was asleep at the controls, then proceeded to blame everyone/everything but her(the train and emergency stop trips which the NTSB concluded were too close, her schedule) He essentially threw her under the bus, then proceeded to take her out from under that bus, put her career on life support and tell CTA you can't terminate her without a fight. Yeah Kelly did throw her under the bus and then just proceeded to make himself look like a bigger fool than some already think he is by trying to back track and put up this false bravado that there would be a fight to keep her job when in fact you managed to find language in the current contract that showed in all likelihood it's virtually impossible that the union could do anything in this case to prevent her termination. And if you were able to find that language in the contract, CTA management could also find and point to it as their justification for being able to let her go with no practical union pushback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctrabs74 Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 CSN Chicago is a strange place for this, but there is a link to the official version of the preliminary report. What seems contradictory there is that it says that the operator says she woke up just after passing the track trip, while most of the reports were that the crash woke her up. That probably gets down to while the track trip was ineffective to stop the train, why she couldn't. I bet she was asleep from the Yellow over Red to the escalator. I'm wondering if it was cross-linked from WMAQ's web site since NBC 5 and CSN are (presumably) both owned by NBC/Comcast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I'm wondering if it was cross-linked from WMAQ's web site since NBC 5 and CSN are (presumably) both owned by NBC/Comcast. Google had it listed as NBC Chicago. However, technically speaking Comcast does not own CSN, the 4 teams do (the bottom says "Comcast Sportnet Chicago LP [Limited Partnership]. There is a "Local News and Weather" section at the right bottom of csnchicago.com, but the Red Line story there today links to an article on nbcchicago.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owine Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Google had it listed as NBC Chicago. However, technically speaking Comcast does not own CSN, the 4 teams do (the bottom says "Comcast Sportnet Chicago LP [Limited Partnership]. There is a "Local News and Weather" section at the right bottom of csnchicago.com, but the Red Line story there today links to an article on nbcchicago.com. NBC Universal has a stake in the channel (I believe 20%), but Reinsdorf is the majority shareholder. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Latest from NTSB "preliminary" states tripper too close to end of track to stop train doing full 25mph. Sadly but obviously true. From experience, being tripped doing about 15mph stop takes about a carlenght. At 25 would take twice as far. If tripper one carlenght from bumper, this is way too close. Also noted CTA changed cab signal to allow 15mph instead of 25 entering station. Way overdue. This was a problem that is amazing took so long to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTRSP1900-CTA3200 Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Here is a Chicago Tribune article with some information from the NTSB preliminary report. Just read it today. It also has some pictures from throughout the ordeal. Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Here is a Chicago Tribune article with some information from the NTSB preliminary report. Just read it today. It also has some pictures from throughout the ordeal. Link Well that came in handy. Kelly about to initiate a grievance for the operator towards CTA for mishandling this serious accident??? Man, he really need sit down and shut the hell up.... :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Well that came in handy. Kelly about to initiate a grievance for the operator towards CTA for mishandling this serious accident??? Man, he really need sit down and shut the hell up.... He's still trying to make up for botching things for her when he went blabbing in front of the media after his initial consultation with her and before she had her say before the NTSB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Well that came in handy. Kelly about to initiate a grievance for the operator towards CTA for mishandling this serious accident??? Man, he really need sit down and shut the hell up.... Again, you missed the labor law point I made way at the beginning of this topic. The operator has a right of fair representation by the union, and could bring a complaint to the Illinois Public Employee Labor Relations Board the union if it doesn't provide it. Ask A Roid. He should shut up, but, as I said, she is entitled to a grievance and a Section 28 hearing, and then off with her head (figuratively speaking). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Again, you missed the labor law point I made way at the beginning of this topic. The operator has a right of fair representation by the union, and could bring a complaint to the Illinois Public Employee Labor Relations Board the union if it doesn't provide it. Ask A Roid. He should shut up, but, as I said, she is entitled to a grievance and a Section 28 hearing, and then off with her head (figuratively speaking). I mean the situation is just getting more worse by him everyday. Yes, you're right about the labor law but it don't know what's going to happen with the grievance claim... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I mean the situation is just getting more worse by him everyday. Yes, you're right about the labor law but it don't know what's going to happen with the grievance claim... Nobody knows until the arbitrator decides, but there hasn't been anything said in the public media that she is competent to do this job. Of course, the only thing that counts is what is before the arbitrator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudgym29 Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Now - if the footage of this accident had been posted initially on TMZ .com, everybody in the world would be clamoring "Terminate her! Terminate her! Terminate her!" But I am being droll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Now - if the footage of this accident had been posted initially on TMZ .com, everybody in the world would be clamoring "Terminate her! Terminate her! Terminate her!" But I am being droll. It seems like it was posted on every legitimate news source. When it started off World News with Diane Sawyer, it got attention. However, it did not have the advantage of either being at the bottom of the ocean for over a month or another sea captain from the Schettino Maritime Institute. It doesn't seem like Claypool needs any encouragement with regard to off with employees' heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4CottageGrove95th Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Well, it looks like this is the year for serious mishaps and derailments for rapid transit and commuter trains, especially in Chicago and New York City. First, the deadly Manhattan-bound Metro-North derailment at the Spuyten Duyvil Creek curve in the Bronx in December - engineer was "nodding" before the crash. Then the O'hare Terminal derailment on March 24th - fortunately no fatalities - at least that I'm aware of anyway. Now as of this morning around 10:30 am, six cars of an eight car Manhattan-Brooklyn-bound F train derails around 65th & Broadway on the Queens Blvd line in Woodside Queens with 19 passengers injured (4 of them seriously). Witnesses on the train say that it sped up just before the derailment; the speed increase for this section of tunnel was very unusual. At least one of the cars tilted so badly that it slammed into the tunnel wall. I think the F line uses mostly (if not exclusively) the newest R160A/B subway cars. However, if it was an eight car train, I'm inclined to think that the train involved was possibly an R46. So, the CTA is not by itself when it comes to rail mishap woes. What do you think happened with this one? Inattentive operator? Defect on the train itself? Broken rail maybe? I would really be interested to see what the NTSB's findings are. After all, that's one of my favorite subway lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Well, it looks like this is the year for serious mishaps and derailments for rapid transit and commuter trains, especially in Chicago and New York City. First, the deadly Manhattan-bound Metro-North derailment at the Spuyten Duyvil Creek curve in the Bronx in December - engineer was "nodding" before the crash. Then the O'hare Terminal derailment on March 24th - fortunately no fatalities - at least that I'm aware of anyway. Now as of this morning around 10:30 am, six cars of an eight car Manhattan-Brooklyn-bound F train derails around 65th & Broadway on the Queens Blvd line in Woodside Queens with 19 passengers injured (4 of them seriously). Witnesses on the train say that it sped up just before the derailment; the speed increase for this section of tunnel was very unusual. At least one of the cars tilted so badly that it slammed into the tunnel wall. I think the F line uses mostly (if not exclusively) the newest R160A/B subway cars. However, if it was an eight car train, I'm inclined to think that the train involved was possibly an R46. So, the CTA is not by itself when it comes to rail mishap woes. What do you think happened with this one? Inattentive operator? Defect on the train itself? Broken rail maybe? I would really be interested to see what the NTSB's findings are. After all, that's one of my favorite subway lines. Where theres a rail line, there wll be mishaps! Houston TX has a serious issue with its light rail line. Quite a few accidents happening in that city including one involving an LRV and a Metro bus. The video can be seen on YouTube. It will wake you up!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4CottageGrove95th Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Where theres a rail line, there wll be mishaps! Houston TX has a serious issue with its light rail line. Quite a few accidents happening in that city including one involving an LRV and a Metro bus. The video can be seen on YouTube. It will wake you up!!! Yeah Buddy! I'm gonna take a look at that LRV and Metro bus YouTube video. Down here in Phoenix, there is one light rail line so far. There have been a few conflicts been motor vehicles and the light rail trains, but nothing fatal as far as I know. I gotta confess, I rarely ride the thing because it goes nowhere and it's absolutely boring. That's why for all the nice weather down here, at times I truly wish I was back in Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 Well, it looks like this is the year for serious mishaps and derailments for rapid transit and commuter trains, especially in Chicago and New York City. First, the deadly Manhattan-bound Metro-North derailment at the Spuyten Duyvil Creek curve in the Bronx in December - engineer was "nodding" before the crash. Then the O'hare Terminal derailment on March 24th - fortunately no fatalities - at least that I'm aware of anyway. Now as of this morning around 10:30 am, six cars of an eight car Manhattan-Brooklyn-bound F train derails around 65th & Broadway on the Queens Blvd line in Woodside Queens with 19 passengers injured (4 of them seriously). Witnesses on the train say that it sped up just before the derailment; the speed increase for this section of tunnel was very unusual. At least one of the cars tilted so badly that it slammed into the tunnel wall. I think the F line uses mostly (if not exclusively) the newest R160A/B subway cars. However, if it was an eight car train, I'm inclined to think that the train involved was possibly an R46. So, the CTA is not by itself when it comes to rail mishap woes. What do you think happened with this one? Inattentive operator? Defect on the train itself? Broken rail maybe? I would really be interested to see what the NTSB's findings are. After all, that's one of my favorite subway lines. The incident in NY was the R46's, since it was an eight car set (and they are 75' in length). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4CottageGrove95th Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 The incident in NY was the R46's, since it was an eight car set (and they are 75' in length). Thanks for the confirmation! I kinda thought it was an R46 consist because the R160s run in 5 car sets on the IND Division (4 car sets on the BMT/Eastern Division L, J, M and Z lines). Now comes the waiting game to see what the cause was according to NTSB's findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 ... So, the CTA is not by itself when it comes to rail mishap woes.... Apparently no fun in Korea, either (Tribune). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTRSP1900-CTA3200 Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 Yeah Buddy! I'm gonna take a look at that LRV and Metro bus YouTube video. Down here in Phoenix, there is one light rail line so far. There have been a few conflicts been motor vehicles and the light rail trains, but nothing fatal as far as I know. I gotta confess, I rarely ride the thing because it goes nowhere and it's absolutely boring. That's why for all the nice weather down here, at times I truly wish I was back in Chicago. Yeah, my grandmother is in the Phoenix area, so I've ridden the light rail as well. It looks modern, but it doesn't help for getting downtown for me when I'm visiting. I had to drive and park my rental car just to get to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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