7900-series Nova LFS - Updates

[BusHunter]

Because CTA can sit on the invoice for 30 days before paying it, according to the terms of the contract. Go back and read the excerpt that I attached to this thread.

As I told sw, unless you are on the factory floor in Plattsburgh, you don't know what the degree of completion is, although Lothian found enough invoices indicating that 20 were drivable in the factory, presumably 30 days before the invoices were paid.

well according to your theory then a payment should have been made 30 days after 1/31 to complete the payment. No additional payments were made until Mar 19th so then CTA would be defaulting on it's payment obligations. Unless your going to say there was a ghost payment.

[Busjack]

well according to your theory then a payment should have been made 30 days after 1/31 to complete the payment. No additional payments were made until Mar 19th so then CTA would be defaulting on it's payment obligations. Unless your going to say there was a ghost payment.

I certainly don't know when the invoices were received at the CTA Accounting Department.

You certainly don't either.

I don't have a theory, I posted the contract terms. I even provided another link, so you can read them on my effort. See the "within thirty calendar days thereafter of receipt of an acceptable invoice" language.

I have the solicitation; you tell me what part of it supports your assertions.

[BusHunter]

I certainly don't know when the invoices were received at the CTA Accounting Department.

You certainly don't either.

I don't have a theory, I posted the contract terms. I even provided another link, so you can read them on my effort. See the "within thirty calendar days thereafter of receipt of an acceptable invoice" language.

I have the solicitation; you tell me what part of it supports your assertions.

I don't know Busjack. You say that the buses are in drivable condition at the factory on the 2nd, when on the 2nd they are at South Shops. You just provided me with the proof of what I'm saying. The buses can't be two places at once. I think the problem here is that the contract says one thing and what's happening physically is completely another.

[sw4400]

My two cents... I might get reamed for it, but here goes...

There are 20 buses drivable according to the verbiage of the terms of the contract. But with Nova doing deliveries throughout the U.S and Canada, that might be the hangup(Nova Bus is so busy right now, their drivers might be tied up delivering other buses). As I understand how the deliveries work, a driver takes the bus from Plattsburgh and drives the bus to Chicago and drops it off at the garage mentioned in the invoices between Nova Bus and CTA(my guess would be South Shops since that is where 7900 went first and 7901 is rumored to be currently). Well, I believe Nova Bus has to pay workers to drive these buses down and I'm guessing get a flight, Amtrak, Grayhound back to Plattsburgh to pick up another bus and drive it down to Chicago(I don't believe these buses are flatbedded down here, although after the Detroit snafu during the 6400-Series delivery in 2000-2002, who knows). I don't think the New Flyer D40LF's DE40LF's, DE60LF's, DE60LFR's or D60LFR's were flatbedded from St. Cloud to Chicago... New Flyer had drivers drive them down here(as many said they saw the buses on the Expressways heading south). But that's a different company and they may do things differently than Nova Bus.

[Busjack]

My two cents... I might get reamed for it, but here goes...

There are 20 buses drivable according to the verbiage of the terms of the contract. But with Nova doing deliveries throughout the U.S and Canada, that might be the hangup(Nova Bus is so busy right now, their drivers might be tied up delivering other buses). As I understand how the deliveries work, a driver takes the bus from Plattsburgh and drives the bus to Chicago and drops it off at the garage mentioned in the invoices between Nova Bus and CTA(my guess would be South Shops since that is where 7900 went first and 7901 is rumored to be currently). Well, I believe Nova Bus has to pay workers to drive these buses down and I'm guessing get a flight, Amtrak, Grayhound back to Plattsburgh to pick up another bus and drive it down to Chicago(I don't believe these buses are flatbedded down here, although after the Detroit snafu during the 6400-Series delivery in 2000-2002, who knows). I don't think the New Flyer D40LF's DE40LF's, DE60LF's, DE60LFR's or D60LFR's were flatbedded from St. Cloud to Chicago... New Flyer had drivers drive them down here(as many said they saw the buses on the Expressways heading south). But that's a different company and they may do things differently than Nova Bus.

That's correct. As you noted, the only issue the last time with Nova was that one of the buses was seen in Detroit "on the way" here, so they went to the flatbeds. Probably the drivers are contract truck drivers (even if they drive buses) rather than employees.

There also is the issue that the CTA inspector has to release them for delivery first. The payment log doesn't show that yet, but CTA has 30 days to pay after he does.

I don't know Busjack. You say that the buses are in drivable condition at the factory on the 2nd, when on the 2nd they are at South Shops. ...

I did NOT. All of this is a figment of your imagination.

Since you are unable to read or comprehend what payment 30 days after receipt of invoice means, there is nothing I can do for you.

Since the driveability payment was made on May 6 (I said NOTHING about the 2nd), 19 were driveable at the factory probably on April 6. If you say those 19 buses (plus 7901) are at South Shops, POST THE PICTURES.

Otherwise, give up on it, since you don't understand the contract.

[BusHunter]

That's correct. As you noted, the only issue the last time with Nova was that one of the buses was seen in Detroit "on the way" here, so they went to the flatbeds. Probably the drivers are contract truck drivers (even if they drive buses) rather than employees.

There also is the issue that the CTA inspector has to release them for delivery first. The payment log doesn't show that yet, but CTA has 30 days to pay after he does.

The only one imagining is you. I'm talking about #7900 and #7901 and your off talking about #7919. I can't help it you don't understand me. As I see I'm getting nowhere on this conversation closed.

[Busjack]

The only one imagining is you. I'm talking about #7900 and #7901 and your off talking about #7919. I can't help it you don't understand me. As I see I'm getting nowhere on this conversation closed.

So. if you mean 7901, the first payment was made at the same time as the first payment for 7900 (31-JAN-14, invoices 7170 and 7171).

The "released for shipment" payment was made on 22-MAY-14, indicating that it probably was released for shipment on April 22. When was it delivered?

You are still confused.

[YoungBusLover]

well 7900 and 7901 were spreading there legs this morning at southshops.

[i8itall4u]

well 7900 and 7901 were spreading there legs this morning at southshops.

hey, hey HEY! I thought this was a family forum

[sw4400]

hey, hey HEY! I thought this was a family forum

It jumps between "G" and "PG".... I have yet to see it go to "R" or "MA"... but now that I re-read YoungBusLover's reply yesterday

well 7900 and 7901 were spreading there legs this morning at southshops.

My goodness, YoungBusLover! Now we have to call the freakin' FCC!

[Busjack]

well 7900 and 7901 were spreading there legs this morning at southshops.

The proper term would have been "stretch," assuming there were Transformers there.

Also there is another diction mistake immediately following that one.

[andrethebusman]

Buses are delivered by drivers from an outfit in Atlanta that specializes in large vehicle deliveries. Drivers are paid so much per delivery, it is up to them to figure out how to get back for the next one. Usually by Hound, as this takes up less of the "return allowance". These are the same folks that you see delivering truck tractors 4 at a time piggyback.

[sw4400]

Buses are delivered by drivers from an outfit in Atlanta that specializes in large vehicle deliveries. Drivers are paid so much per delivery, it is up to them to figure out how to get back for the next one. Usually by Hound, as this takes up less of the "return allowance". These are the same folks that you see delivering truck tractors 4 at a time piggyback.

I wonder in CTA's contract includes these drivers' services or is it covered by Nova Bus?

[Busjack]

I wonder in CTA's contract includes these drivers' services or is it covered by Nova Bus?

The contract is to deliver to 7801 S. Vincennes Ave., so the seller has to arrange to get the product there.

Otherwise, the contract would be F.O.B. manufacturer's siding, or something like that.

Note also that the title on the procurement page is always something like "The manufacture and delivery of ... buses." I always wondered why it wasn't just "40 foot diesel buses," but your question probably explains that.

[BusHunter]

I always believed these big bus manufacturing companies had there own driving firm that they would use. That could save some money for the companies themselves instead of paying for a third party. Something like a vendor.

[Busjack]

I always believed these big bus manufacturing companies had there own driving firm that they would use. That could save some money for the companies themselves instead of paying for a third party. Something like a vendor.

Not necessarily, since the drivers Andre described are all independent contractors, and responsible for their own benefits, as well as, as Andre said, getting themselves back home.

Also, the manufacturers would have to lay off a large number of drivers if a big order was completed without a replacement, and, by being independent contractors, nobody is responsible for unemployment compensation.

Most long haul truckers are independent, and call into dispatch to get the next load. If they are not delivering a bus, they try to get a load for their own rig.

[BusHunter]

Yeah, but truck CDL's are different than bus CDL's, but they could have multiple endorsements I suppose. It's like with the #5000's, they are using Watson Trucking, so who hired them Bombardier or CTA. CTA seems to use Silk Road on specialty stuff like taking a railcar to Delaware Car Company for major work. CTA also can use it's own company trucks like in taking a car to IRM.

[Busjack]

Yeah, but truck CDL's are different than bus CDL's, but they could have multiple endorsements I suppose. It's like with the #5000's, they are using Watson Trucking, so who hired them Bombardier or CTA. CTA seems to use Silk Road on specialty stuff like taking a railcar to Delaware Car Company for major work. CTA also can use it's own company trucks like in taking a car to IRM.

The specs for the 7000s (and I assume that those for the 5000s are no different) state that a car is considered delivered when both cars of a 2 car unit are received at Skokie Shops, and that risk of loss does not pass to the Authority until the cars are accepted. So, again it appears to be the manufacturer's obligation to get them there.

[YoungBusLover]

It jumps between "G" and "PG".... I have yet to see it go to "R" or "MA"... but now that I re-read YoungBusLover's reply yesterday

My goodness, YoungBusLover! Now we have to call the freakin' FCC!

Lol,hahahaha

[andrethebusman]

Reason they don't is that number of driver needed can vary wildly depending on where this week's production is going. If Gilligs are going to Florida, driver won't be back for over a week. If they are going to Oakland, driver will be back in hours. So they just tell the driveaway outfit this week we will need so many drivers.

[sw4400]

We've been having a lot of posts about 7901 at South Shops for weeks now lately(going back to April 29th)....

There's at least one new #7900 at south shops, I saw it sitting by the front fence among other buses this morning.

As of 5/20, CTA internal computer system sez 7900 assigned 77th, 7901 South Shops.

well 7900 and 7901 were spreading there legs this morning at southshops.

Can anyone get photographic evidence of 7901 being down at South Shops? I can see a bus sitting for a few weeks to get inspected and get a farebox and Bustracker GPS installed on it, along with whatever else CTA-related equipment is required, but this bus should have seen some light duty by now.

[BusHunter]

We've been having a lot of posts about 7901 at South Shops for weeks now lately(going back to April 29th)....

Can anyone get photographic evidence of 7901 being down at South Shops? I can see a bus sitting for a few weeks to get inspected and get a farebox and Bustracker GPS installed on it, along with whatever else CTA-related equipment is required, but this bus should have seen some light duty by now.

What you should be asking is what happened to the rest of them?

[Sam92]

We've been having a lot of posts about 7901 at South Shops for weeks now lately(going back to April 29th)....

Can anyone get photographic evidence of 7901 being down at South Shops? I can see a bus sitting for a few weeks to get inspected and get a farebox and Bustracker GPS installed on it, along with whatever else CTA-related equipment is required, but this bus should have seen some light duty by now.

Well I dont have a camera on me but maybe another sighting will be confirmation enough... I was walking by 77th yesterday and seen two of them.... among a group of buses and the other was in front of what I guess would be an office for the garage (across the garage driveway from the laundromat over here)

[Busjack]

....he other was in front of what I guess would be an office for the garage (across the garage driveway from the laundromat over here)

Laundromat doesn't ring a bell (unless it is in the Foreman Mills strip mall). The transportation office is in a small building if you assume Wentworth Ave. extended north a block.

[Sam92]

Laundromat doesn't ring a bell (unless it is in the Foreman Mills strip mall). The transportation office is in a small building if you assume Wentworth Ave. extended north a block.

yeah in the Foreman Mill's part. I didnt know a better way to describe the location other than across the bus driveway at the time lol. and yes it was a small building that the other 7900 was parked in front of. all I know is the building looked more like a place for administrative things rather than directly servicing/tending to the buses themselves, kinda to the right of the big garage part where the buses from all garages park at while awaiting shop work.