5000-series - Updates

[sw4400]

Well I'm just glad they will resume production on them can't wait to see the 5000's back on the tracks again. But once they start makin they're way back don't you all think they will put them on the pink line again since that line only need 44 rail cars or will they put them on the Green Line.

I still have the following on Long-Term Hold, but assigned to the Pink Line before being pulled. These units should return from whence they came....

5001-5002,5013-5014,5015-5016,5019-5020,5021-5022,5023-5024,5037-5038,5039-5040,

5041-5042,5043-5044,5045-5046,5049-5050,5051-5052,5053-5054,5055-5056,5057-5058,

5059-5060,5061-5062,5063-5064,5065-5066,5067-5068,5069-5070

These were the unassigned units that either 1) were not on CTA property when the units above were pulled due to the wheel issue or 2) these units were going to be assigned to the Green Line but were not due to the above pulling from service at the time

5003-5004,5005-5006,5007-5008,5009-5010,5011-5012,5017-5018,5025-5026,5027-5028,

5029-5030,5031-5032,5033-5034,5035-5036,5047-5048

Why the units aren't assigned numerically puzzles me, but I figure as more units are built and come in, swaps between railyards will probably begin.

[Busjack]

Well I'm just glad they will resume production on them can't wait to see the 5000's back on the tracks again. But once they start makin they're way back don't you all think they will put them on the pink line again since that line only need 44 rail cars or will they put them on the Green Line.

Maybe you can tell Claypool. As the CTA Tattler documented last October, Claypool first said that "The long-awaited, much bally-hooed Series 5000 rail cars should start arriving on CTA tracks by sometime next year," even though people here saw them (at least that's what "CTA officials said" in the Tribune article cited there), but then, as later reported:

The folks at ChicagoBus.org sure do know their trains too. They predicted three weeks ago the new rail cars would go into service on the Pink Line by the end of October, and were only off by a week. Mayor Rahm Emanuel got his first ride on the new Series 5000 rail cars Tuesday at the Midway station of the Orange Line.

But maybe Claypool was originally correct, in that they probably won't roll out for real until May.

In any event, in that the original assignments don't seem to make sense, I see no need to change them, except for that unleashing 114 or so cars at once (presumably after testing) would cause a bigger training problem than just "inaugurating a few on the Pink Line because it is small." In any event, the Pink Line operators are theoretically already trained.

The bearing housing problem also sure silenced questions about the stinger issue.

But since CTA management probably doesn't know, I certainly don't.

[sw4400]

theoretically already trained.

The bearing housing problem also sure silenced questions about the stinger issue.

Maybe the wheel/bearing problem and the dead trains at spots like near tower 18 requiring the stingers so much are linked? Just a random thought thrown out there....

[Busjack]

I still have the following on Long-Term Hold, but assigned to the Pink Line before being pulled. These units should return from whence they came....

These were the unassigned units....

How? Graham Garfield hasn't posted it on chicago-l.org (probably for obvious reasons), and you haven't explained how a non-employee of the CTA could have gained access to the secret cult of the roster.

[BusHunter]

These were the unassigned units that either 1) were not on CTA property when the units above were pulled due to the wheel issue or 2) these units were going to be assigned to the Green Line but were not due to the above pulling from service at the time

5003-5004,5005-5006,5007-5008,5009-5010,5011-5012,5017-5018,5025-5026,5027-5028,5029-5030,5031-5032,5033-5034,

5035-5036,5047-5048,5063-5064

#5063-64 was on the Pink Line in service the last week of service. I had 44 cars in service on my roster, (#5000's in service and retirements thread) although CTA/the Press only states 40.

[sw4400]

How? Graham Garfield hasn't posted it on chicago-l.org (probably for obvious reasons), and you haven't explained how a non-employee of the CTA could have gained access to the secret cult of the roster.

I've learned to read what the community posts as to what they see from their eyes on the road(or in this case, rails). It's all a community effort, Busjack. I thank all the members of the community that did post the unit numbers on the Pink Line that allowed me to create the list of what was on the Pink Line. Communities are great, aren't they? Their members are actually helpful and post what is seen, which allows me to create and adjust lists accordingly.

Do you need any help figuring out what community I'm speaking of, Busjack? If so, I'll be so glad to help you out, as a community member...

[sw4400]

#5063-64 was on the Pink Line in service the last week of service. I had 44 cars in service on my roster, (#5000's in service and retirements thread) although CTA/the Press only states 40.

Thank you for the info, BusHunter!!!

[Busjack]

I've learned to read what the community posts as to what they see from their eyes on the road(or in this case, rails). ...

Thanks for the explanation. I was tipped off that apparently you used Graham Garfield (and apparently official) lingo to imply an authority that didn't exist, but if you are keeping notes of what was posted here and so represent, fine.

[sw4400]

I'll leave this to anyone wanting to dissect this article. According to several chicagobus.org members, we have 5000's on site either at Skokie Shops or 54th St. Yard. According to this quote from the article above...

The CTA rejected the proposal, and Bombardier is expected to deliver the rehabilitated cars by May 1.

So the cars sitting around here are not yet rehabbed and have to be shipped out for rehab? The article states all rehabbed railcars are off-site someplace. Is this more confusing media stories???

[CURRENTZ_09]

There have been 5000-series laying around everywhere, at the Skokie shops, the Midway Shops and a whole bunch of 2200-series at howard and a work train 2400-series at forest park? are these trains parked there just in case the 5000-series does go out of service again. I rode those 2200-series trains on my trip to chicago friday and those things are hanging by a thread so i hope they get these trains right this time, because next time, the 2200-series and 2400-series won't be there to the rescue from retirement. Also, when is the Morgan/Lake and Oakton/Skokie stations scheduled to open, because the Oakton station looks like it could be done within the month, i havent seen the Morgan station, but im guessing the CTA will do the station openings and the reintroduction of the 5000-series rail cars in May

[Busjack]

I'll leave this to anyone wanting to dissect this article. ... Is this more confusing media stories???

One has to thoroughly search the page to determine that this is from Hornell, New York, home of the U.S. Alstom plant. Apparently the gist of the article is that Bombardier got or is bidding on contracts that the locals want to go to Alstom.

Anything else looks like hearsay, including "what the Chicago Tribune reported."

[See Tea Eh]

There have been 5000-series laying around everywhere, at the Skokie shops, the Midway Shops and a whole bunch of 2200-series at howard and a work train 2400-series at forest park? are these trains parked there just in case the 5000-series does go out of service again.

Not sure what you're asking. The 5000s are out of service right now, so of the 2200s and 2400s are parked in various places, then they're obviously not sitting around "just in case the 5000-series does go out of service again."

I rode those 2200-series trains on my trip to chicago friday and those things are hanging by a thread

I ride the 2200s pretty often, and I'm curious to know what makes you think "those things are hanging by a thread."

but im guessing the CTA will do the station openings and the reintroduction of the 5000-series rail cars in May

Theoretically possible that the stations could open in May, but I don't think there will be any link between the station reopening and the 5000-series return to service.

[Busjack]

Theoretically possible that the stations could open in May, but I don't think there will be any link between the station reopening and the 5000-series return to service.

The home page had a link to the Chicago Journal article that the Morgan station is supposed to open in May. Coincidence? Maybe.

[artthouwill]

The home page had a link to the Chicago Journal article that the Morgan station is supposed to open in May. Coincidence? Maybe.

I would also expect the new cTA brochures touting said stations to be released in May also.

[mkohut]

I would also expect the new cTA brochures touting said stations to be released in May also.

Why spend money on it?Wait til the stations are open to make new ones.

[Busjack]

That was my speculation, but given the cost, I thought it would be impracticable. Does that kinda give the 3200's a rebirth, since they're going from D/C trucks to A/C trucks(another 25-30 yrs. added to their life)?

The Tribune had an article today that CTA was contemplating giving Bombardier a sole source contract, not only to build a facility at the 63rd St. Yards, but also to do the midlife overhaul of the 3200s at about $1.16 million a car. Apparently the truck problems or someone shedding a bit of light on the potential misuse of the contracting process [i'm sure Alstom would have protested] put the kibosh on that. At least Jon Hilkevitch is doing his job.

Maybe of interest for the point being debated in this forum is:

By allowing Bombardier to use proprietary information to create a uniform rail car design, the CTA's older trains from another maker would be configured with many of the same technical specifications on the new trains from Bombardier — resulting in greater operational and maintenance efficiencies, Sullivan said.

So, the above seems correct, at least according to the CTA Ministeress of Propaganda.

[geneking7320]

The Tribune had an article today that CTA was contemplating giving Bombardier a sole source contract, not only to build a facility at the 63rd St. Yards, but also to do the midlife overhaul of the 3200s at about $1.16 million a car. Apparently the truck problems or someone shedding a bit of light on the potential misuse of the contracting process [i'm sure Alstom would have protested] put the kibosh on that. At least Jon Hilkevitch is doing his job.

Maybe of interest for the point being debated in this forum is:

So, the above seems correct, at least according to the CTA Ministeress of Propaganda.

When I read the article I was wondering what proprietary info [about CTA railcars] was being referred to. Some transit authorities own their car designs. How much of the CTA's car design does it own?

[Busjack]

When I read the article I was wondering what proprietary info [about CTA railcars] was being referred to. Some transit authorities own their car designs. How much of the CTA's car design does it own?

The issue seems to be how much Bombardier proprietary information is involved, not CTA's. This is also the excuse CTA gave for not honoring a Tribune Freedom of Information Act request to see what is, admittedly, a public contract.

The answer to this depends on what spec was given to the carbuilders in about 2005, which I suppose was of the type that "it is too large to post on the site, so the bidders must go to 567 West Lake St. and pick up a CD-ROM." Obviously, something like the car shells are a combination of CTA needing something that fits current clearances along with the right to use the Budd patents (which Bombardier apparently has from buying out Budd, according to them) or equivalent.

However, to get back to what should have been done, the way this procurement should have [and now that the stink is out, probably will be] done is to have a spec for overhauling the 3200s, including that they must be compatible with the 5000s and the work must be done at 63rd St. Yard. I don't think it is material to the spec that the wheel bearing housings have to be done by the Stin King Foundry of Fowl Ed Opp China* to minimize CTA's part inventory costs.

__________________

*That bit of proprietary information was eventually revealed, but I used place holders because I was too lazy to look it up.

[sw4400]

However, to get back to what should have been done, the way this procurement should have [and now that the stink is out, probably will be] done is to have a spec for overhauling the 3200s, including that they must be compatible with the 5000s and the work must be done at 63rd St. Yard. I don't think it is material to the spec that the wheel bearing housings have to be done by the Stin King Foundry of Fowl Ed Opp China* to minimize CTA's part inventory costs.

__________________

*That bit of proprietary information was eventually revealed, but I used place holders because I was too lazy to look it up.

Stin King Foundry of Fow Ed Opp China??? Isn't this the facility that put the 5000's out of service for a indefinite period of time until they are green lighted to return with proper repairs? This same facility is going to supply parts for the 3200's overhaul? A series of railcar that have been running on the CTA flawlessly since their introduction 21 years ago???

[Busjack]

Stin King Foundry of Fow Ed Opp China??? Isn't this the facility that put the 5000's out of service for a indefinite period of time until they are green lighted to return with proper repairs? This same facility is going to supply parts for the 3200's overhaul? A series of railcar that have been running on the CTA flawlessly since their introduction 21 years ago???

Other than my saying that I used a [fictitious name as a] place holder because I was too lazy to look it up, one would assume that the new Chinese and German foundries that are supplying the replacement parts on the 5000s would also be used.

But, with regard to any other parts, one would assume that if the issue was that the 3200s have to be compatible with the 5000s and that required the use of Bombardier proprietary information, then whatever parts are going to be used in the 5000s going forward would have also been used in the rehabbed 3200s.

[sw4400]

Other than my saying that I used a [fictitious name as a] place holder because I was too lazy to look it up, one would assume that the new Chinese and German foundries that are supplying the replacement parts on the 5000s would also be used.

But, with regard to any other parts, one would assume that if the issue was that the 3200s have to be compatible with the 5000s and that required the use of Bombardier proprietary information, then whatever parts are going to be used in the 5000s going forward would have also been used in the rehabbed 3200s.

I'd like to see the 5000's run flawlessly for 6 months without stoppage for issues before Bombardier is even allowed to touch the 3200's for mid-lifes. Personally, I'd like to see Alstom do the mid-life. They done it for the 2600's and this series ran flawlessly since. A tried and true railcar company.... Bombardier has to earn trust again.

Bottom line until the 5000 fiasco is fixed for good.... if it ain't broke, don't fix it!!! Putting the 3200's in the care of a company that can't get their own product correct could be disasterous for the CTA if both series develop more problems post-reintroduction and mid-life, respectively. What railcars would we use then? The 2200's and 2400's will be in the scrapper by then, and there won't be enough 2600's to run 8 rail lines, with 4 of those busy ones that require frequent service.

[Mr.cta85]

Looks like the 5000's are back I saw them twice today 1married pair 5045 and 5046 sitting in the back at Harlem yard then once my train pulled off from Harlem l saw a 6cars string heading to Harlem I couldn't get any numbers cause they were going by to fast but they were definitely 5000's.

[Busjack]

Looks like the 5000's are back I saw them twice today...

According to Fox Chicago, they are all repaired and ready to go back into service in May. Web version.

At least thanks to the press extravaganza at Midway, they had footage of the correct cars.

And, like hot dogs and bagels, I would rather have the Chicago style than the New York one. :lol:

[CURRENTZ_09]

I would also expect the new cTA brochures touting said stations to be released in May also.

Well, i would hope too, since these would become future collection items, but due to the fact that they arent finished yet, Oakton should open by Late April, Morgan in May TBA by the CTA, they aren't reflected in the Revised April 22 2012 timetables yet, so im guessing that the CTA will come out with a printed brochure detailing all their changes in May or that we will have to wait til summer for the Bus & Rail Map to reflect these. I wish the CTA had a printed passenger new letter instead of Connections, it seems that hasn't been updated since January and i think a Newsletter would be better to detail stories happening around the CTA and Major service changes that happen along with the customer alerts, they can be posted at CTA rail stations and be updated 4 to 6 times a year as a service to regular CTA customers, such as MCTS that has Buslines, which is update 6 times a year. We recently had a Special Collectors edition in January with the introduction of the MetroEXpress routes. Also, i was wondering if the CTA will do another public press release for the 5000-series and if so, where would it be held at and is the public invited to the Re-release of the 5000-series

[Busjack]

... I wish the CTA had a printed passenger new letter instead of Connections, it seems that hasn't been updated since January and i think a Newsletter would be better to detail stories happening around the CTA and Major service changes that happen along with the customer alerts, they can be posted at CTA rail stations and be updated 4 to 6 times a year as a service to regular CTA customers, such as MCTS that has Buslines, which is update 6 times a year. We recently had a Special Collectors edition in January with the introduction of the MetroEXpress routes. Also, i was wondering if the CTA will do another public press release for the 5000-series and if so, where would it be held at and is the public invited to the Re-release of the 5000-series

As indicated by this Tribune piece on the investigation of the apparently now aborted Bombardier sole source contract, Molly Sullivan and her crew at the CTA have other things to do than get information to the public, including hiding information from the public and press.

In any event, I don't think that the Emanuel administration is interested in another celebration of another CTA embarrassment. What will be more likely is that someone on this forum will post "I saw cars 50XX-50XY on the Pink Line this morning, with a Pink or Orange sign." The Mayor has too many other press appointments, such as explaining how the murder rate went up after he changed police chiefs (come to think about it, that is another embarrassment of a different kind).