5000-series - Updates

[sw4400]

Was up at Skokie Shops yesterday and the #5000 deliveries seem to be slowing down again. Last week I learned some more of the #5000's are going back to Bombardier, (more defects I don't know) I didn't get car numbers but it appears to be off the Red line. So I don't know ifanother Bombard delay is on the horizon or not. #5307-08, I believe is on CTA property.

That's really welcoming news if true... another possible defect. I can tell you this much... I don't think CTA will be accepting bids from Bombardier for the 7000-Series if these defects keep on coming(presuming this is the case for 5000's being shipped back to Plattsburgh).

[Busjack]

So much for Commonwealth Edison and its smart grid.

I don't know if that's been implemented yet, but the right of way is there because it is the main conduit for Comm Ed high tension wires, which seem to have been there even before their North Shore railroad. I don't know what caused the outage, but it certainly wasn't lack of available power.

[jajuan]

I don't know if that's been implemented yet, but the right of way is there because it is the main conduit for Comm Ed high tension wires, which seem to have been there even before their North Shore railroad. I don't know what caused the outage, but it certainly wasn't lack of available power.

Not to mention given the outage came about from the weekend storms, it's a good possibility the cause stemmed from storm damage. A smart grid comes about due to digital technology added in to create a two way communication between the power company, in this case ComEd, and the relevant customers to create a benefit of sensing when there is an outage, whether too many customers are putting demand on a section of the grid, or determining if power needs to be rerouted in a given section. Power lines are still part of the equation. Long story short, smart grid does not mean immune to storm damage that could case an outage. It means in part theoretically faster response to that damage if it occurs.

[artthouwill]

This morning 2511 ,thru 2516 were in a six car consist on the Green Line 8:29 departure from Harlem.

[BusHunter]

Maybe that has something to do with a few 5000's going back to Bombardier. Maybe the Green line has lost some #5150's to the Red line to make up for that loss of cars.

[Around the Horn]

Actually that doesn't work, because (708)867-5309 is theoretically in Norridge/Harwood Heights, which is sort of served by the Blue Line. Maybe it is a cell phone number in some other area code.

Then, in one of the blind date movie twists, it turns out to be some pizza delivery person whose nickname is Gorilla.

why does it have to be 708 ?

[Busjack]

why does it have to be 708 ?

Otherwise it is likely a cell phone. However, 312-867 was subsequently assigned as a landline in the Superior central office (near north area) (according to Internet phone sources), so you got me there.

Turns out 773-867 is a Chicago number assigned to Park Ridge central office (i.e. Chicago west of Cumberland), so the effect wouldn't be much different than 708-867.

[sw4400]

This morning 2511 ,thru 2516 were in a six car consist on the Green Line 8:29 departure from Harlem.

Maybe that has something to do with a few 5000's going back to Bombardier. Maybe the Green line has lost some #5150's to the Red line to make up for that loss of cars.

Something's up here... I'm not totally 100% saying another defect yet, but I'd say the chances are at or slightly greater than 50% likelihood. The minor issue with frames I believe was being fixed in house or before they even left Plattsburgh.

If true, then I believe Bombardier to be the NABI of railcars... brakes, wheel castings, frames, (possible defect #4)... we'll just have to wait and see if CTA chooses to report why 5000's are being moved around or disappearing from service yet again.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

This morning 2511 ,thru 2516 were in a six car consist on the Green Line 8:29 departure from Harlem.

Saw them (or other 2400s) last week pulling into Oak Park too. I was a bit surprised.

[jajuan]

Something's up here... I'm not totally 100% saying another defect yet, but I'd say the chances are at or slightly greater than 50% likelihood. The minor issue with frames I believe was being fixed in house or before they even left Plattsburgh.

If true, then I believe Bombardier to be the NABI of railcars... brakes, wheel castings, frames, (possible defect #4)... we'll just have to wait and see if CTA chooses to report why 5000's are being moved around or disappearing from service yet again.

Before we start back down that road, I think we already established that there is a huge and very distinct difference between this situation and the NABI fiasco. For one thing. it's been explained that transit railcars of this type are custom made for each particular TA according to the parameters that TA sets. So you're not going to have a proven model to establish performance. Now it's unrealistic to think flaws aren't going to occur under this dynamic of custom made vehicles, but the key here is that unlike the NABI situation the flaws are being caught relatively soon and CTA is enforcing its contractual rights to have effected railcars taken back to Bombardier to have those flaws fixed right away. In the NABI situation, there were legally required structural tests done on the NABIs which the buses failed that showed those buses had serious flaws, but CTA ignored that and took the buses anyway because of their dire need for articulated buses to replace the 7300s at the time. What we've been seeing with the 5000s so far is lax quality control rather than a bad design which was the apparent case with the CTA NABIs.

[eyetube21]

Today, I spotted cars #5307-10 on the Red Line heading south to Ashland/63rd at 25th Street and State Street.

[BusHunter]

That's strange, Skokie shops has had no #5000 activity outside the building. #5311-12 is in Howard yard tonight connected to #5305-06. Here's some pictures of #5305-06 from the other day.

[geneking7320]

Please forgive me forgetting the car numbers but the Red Line 5Ks I rode last night had Pink Line car cards over the

door. I wonder what that meant...

Gene King

[Busjack]

Please forgive me forgetting the car numbers but the Red Line 5Ks I rode last night had Pink Line car cards over the

door. I wonder what that meant...

Gene King

Besides that the cars probably were transferred, that the current 5000s don't have the video system and route map displays specified in the 7000s specs (Section 14.02K*).

This probably raises the question whether CTA will continue with 2006 technology on the next 400 cars to be delivered, even though you demonstrated that it is obsolete. But maybe they will retrofit the cars like they did for the destination signs.*

______

*Although I suppose some poster will say they aren't programmable, unlike any other computer display.

[sw4400]

Besides that the cars probably were transferred, that the current 5000s don't have the video system and route map displays specified in the 7000s specs (Section 14.02K*).

This probably raises the question whether CTA will continue with 2006 technology on the next 400 cars to be delivered, even though you demonstrated that it is obsolete. But maybe they will retrofit the cars like they did for the destination signs.*

______

*Although I suppose some poster will say they aren't programmable, unlike any other computer display.

I actually think eventually, perhaps with the 7000's, they will get away from this "we can only put in what destination signs are available" nonsense. It's a computer ran system... you can set color and put in whatever destination you want into it. That Brown Line train only running to Western? Input the Brown color into the destination sign and select "Western" from the drop down box in the control cab... voila, all cars now say "Western" on a Brown background. That Blue Line train can't go past Cumberland due to a mechanical issue with a train at Rosemont? Select the Blue color and select "Cumberland" from the drop down box... all cars on the train now say "Cumberland" on a Blue background.

The technology is there... all the CTA has to do is put it into the railcars. That's the purpose of computer-generated LED displays... they can display route changes on the fly. All that has to be done is input a color selector or route selector into the railcar cabs of the new trains so the background destinations change to the color of the route, and the operator selects the destination of their train from a drop box like the Font and Size boxes in this Reply box. The old way of doing things where only some destinations are available for routes(e.g O'Hare, Forest Park, Jefferson Park) should be obsolete now or very soon.

[Busjack]

I actually think eventually, perhaps with the 7000's, they will get away from this "we can only put in what destination signs are available" nonsense. It's a computer ran system... you can set color and put in whatever destination you want into it. That Brown Line train only running to Western? Input the Brown color into the destination sign and select "Western" from the drop down box in the control cab... voila, all cars now say "Western" on a Brown background. That Blue Line train can't go past Cumberland due to a mechanical issue with a train at Rosemont? Select the Blue color and select "Cumberland" from the drop down box... all cars on the train now say "Cumberland" on a Blue background.

The technology is there... all the CTA has to do is put it into the railcars. That's the purpose of computer-generated LED displays... they can display route changes on the fly. All that has to be done is input a color selector or route selector into the railcar cabs of the new trains so the background destinations change to the color of the route, and the operator selects the destination of their train from a drop box like the Font and Size boxes in this Reply box. The old way of doing things where only some destinations are available for routes(e.g O'Hare, Forest Park, Jefferson Park) should be obsolete now or very soon.

More than likely (and definitely in the specs for the 3200s and 7000s signs), the sign files themselves are in the master controller (3200s) or operators' control interface (7000s). Also, while the 3200s signs are to be controlled by the 2 rotary switches and the switch in the master controller to select one of three sets of signs, the 7000s (and probably also 5000s) signs are undoubtedly selected by entry of the run number in the operators' control interface and the gps.

The other problem with your proposal is that there would have to be a way to assure that the displays are ADA compliant (i.e. letters must be a certain minimum size).

What you propose obviously could be done, but usually operators are not given that much discretion. For instance, the bus signs never let the driver type in anything, but only select from what is already programmed in the Luminator or TwinVison box.

The method of programming is different, in that the bus signs are essentially formatted text programs, while the train destination signs are graphics programs, of which you are familiar. The one thing both have in common is that the programming is done on a laptop computer, and then has to be uploaded to the sign controller in each bus or train car.

[jajuan]

I actually think eventually, perhaps with the 7000's, they will get away from this "we can only put in what destination signs are available" nonsense. It's a computer ran system... you can set color and put in whatever destination you want into it. That Brown Line train only running to Western? Input the Brown color into the destination sign and select "Western" from the drop down box in the control cab... voila, all cars now say "Western" on a Brown background. That Blue Line train can't go past Cumberland due to a mechanical issue with a train at Rosemont? Select the Blue color and select "Cumberland" from the drop down box... all cars on the train now say "Cumberland" on a Blue background.

The technology is there... all the CTA has to do is put it into the railcars. That's the purpose of computer-generated LED displays... they can display route changes on the fly. All that has to be done is input a color selector or route selector into the railcar cabs of the new trains so the background destinations change to the color of the route, and the operator selects the destination of their train from a drop box like the Font and Size boxes in this Reply box. The old way of doing things where only some destinations are available for routes(e.g O'Hare, Forest Park, Jefferson Park) should be obsolete now or very soon.

I'll have to agree with Busjack that your proposal is much more easier said than might be done when you take into account the issues he mentioned. We're just now in recent years seeing CTA get rid of late 1960s/early 1970s rolling stock from its rail fleet so it's not very likely just yet that they're going to get hip on technology of post 2006 vintage all too quickly.

[Busjack]

I'll have to agree with Busjack that your proposal is much more easier said than might be done when you take into account the issues he mentioned. We're just now in recent years seeing CTA get rid of late 1960s/early 1970s rolling stock from its rail fleet so it's not very likely just yet that they're going to get hip on technology of post 2006 vintage all too quickly.

Maybe to get this back on track...

My main point was that it was within CTA's knowledge, how, going forward, it can do away with mylar system and route maps.

Besides the situation Gene implied with regard to having to change the route map when transferring the cars, there is also the situation that the maps have to be changed every time that a station opens and closes, such as later this year to show at least that the Red Line Dan Ryan stations are all accessible, then again next year to reflect the Cermak/McCormick Place station, then maybe 18 months after that to reflect that Washington-Wabash replaces Randolph and Madison, and so on through the 30-40 years that the 5000s would remain under normal service life assumptions. Compared to that, replacing the destination signs in the 3200s has small payback.

But, maybe, changing the map fixtures in the 5000s isn't much more complicated than adding similar BusTracker displays to the J14 buses.

[Sam92]

But, maybe, changing the map fixtures in the 5000s isn't much more complicated than adding similar BusTracker displays to the J14 buses.

If its as easy as that then we'd be talkin a day or two in the shops for the 5000's I guess... I remember 4089 finished a Friday with no Bustracker display and was back in service with the screen the Monday after.

[Around the Horn]

Maybe to get this back on track...

My main point was that it was within CTA's knowledge, how, going forward, it can do away with mylar system and route maps.

Besides the situation Gene implied with regard to having to change the route map when transferring the cars, there is also the situation that the maps have to be changed every time that a station opens and closes, such as later this year to show at least that the Red Line Dan Ryan stations are all accessible, then again next year to reflect the Cermak/McCormick Place station, then maybe 18 months after that to reflect that Washington-Wabash replaces Randolph and Madison, and so on through the 30-40 years that the 5000s would remain under normal service life assumptions. Compared to that, replacing the destination signs in the 3200s has small payback.

But, maybe, changing the map fixtures in the 5000s isn't much more complicated than adding similar BusTracker displays to the J14 buses.

The MTA here in New York does that on their R142s,R142As and R143s.Its pretty simple just put a sticker over with the station name or wheelchair symbol.They did that in the 2010 doomsday cuts and on a happier note when Atlantic-Barclays (or Atlantc-Barclays as its spelled imfamously on the R142s).Also about announcements,Their as easy as keeping most of the original announcement and splicing something new in (For example: All original parts of the announcement are normal type,the splice is bolded:"This is a Crown Heights bound 4 train,the next stop is Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center.Stand clear of the closing doors please.")

[Busjack]

The MTA here in New York does that on their R142s,R142As and R143s.Its pretty simple just put a sticker over with the station name or wheelchair symbol.They did that in the 2010 doomsday cuts and on a happier note when Atlantic-Barclays (or Atlantc-Barclays as its spelled imfamously on the R142s).Also about announcements,Their as easy as keeping most of the original announcement and splicing something new in (For example: All original parts of the announcement are normal type,the splice is bolded:"This is a Crown Heights bound 4 train,the next stop is Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center.Stand clear of the closing doors please.")

CTA has used stickers in the past (such as when the newspapers exposed misspellings on the system maps), but generally doesn't like to, since it makes the maps look dirty.

The announcements are all automated, so that's no big deal, other than getting Mr. CTA to record a few more syllables.

[Amtrak41]

I rode 5000's (5175 I think) on the Skokie last Wednesday.

[artthouwill]

2511 thru 2516 in numerical order on the Green Line again today.

[BusHunter]

Looks like the yellow line has a new visitor.

[Amtrak41]

5157, not 5175 !