5000-series - Updates

[Busjack]

That was my general theory. I thought the 5000s had electronics in their motor controllers to avoid wheel slip but I guess under some circumstances it still happens.

Krambles's book (page 69) says that the 3200s have slip slide control logic, and sanders were eliminated, so that goes back to that.

Andre gives a good explanation, and I had also heard that the problem is worse on lines that don't have a turning loop, because then this happens the same place every time. But obviously it is a flat wheel as opposed to the brakes themselves.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

I did actually drive L trains 1977-82, so this is from experience. Flat wheels on the equipment I worked with (6000's thru 2400's) were all caused by a single reason - sliding the wheels. L cars series 2000 to 2600 have four rates of braking, ranging from rather light (P1) to maximum (P4). Unfortunately, CTA practice has been for years to apply brakes at the last possible second to avoid overrunning the station. This means using P4 at each stop. Now, the problem is that in P4 under anything less than ideal conditions (wet rail, snow, salt spray), there is enough pressure being exerted on the disc brake that if the wheels lose their grip on the rail, the brakes will lock up that axle, and cause the wheel to skid. One skidding stop is all it takes and you have a flat spot. 6000's were not given to these problems simply because maximum braking on a 6000 was just not strong enough to lock up an axle, but the newer cars have a lot more braking force and can easily do so.

The problem was that once your train is sliding, the only thing you can do is release the brakes, and go to coast until the wheels catch the rail again, when you can start braking again. But if you have not left yourself enough room to do this, the only thing you can do to avoid rolling thru the station is to let it slide, and stop by slamming down the track brakes. So now not only are you flattening wheels, but also grinding rail. This is why especially on the Ryan, where road salt forms a slippery surface on the railhead, rail at stations had to be replaced about every 10 years. while between stations lasted from 1969 until the general rebuilding a couple of years ago.

Excellent explanation! Thank you!

Thank you. At least there is one person who can explain things to correct people;s ideas about a subject rather than criticizing those people because they may not know.

Agreed!

[garmon757]

I have to tell you.....you don't know "the basics." You can only learn "basics" by experience. Without the experience you build a set of errors.

Aww come on David!!! This is an golden opportunity for us that are young to show some extraordinary creativity! We all aren't going to be 100% but give him a chance man.

[garmon757]

Hey Briman, one thing I've noticed is that you started the third track between Western and Damen east of Western Station. That track ends about 3/4 of the station on the west end (fully across the street). The east end is on Leavitt Street. The outbound switch track is on Lincoln Avenue and the inbound switch track is on Leavitt Street. I'll review your video again to help you out if I see some more discrepancies. Other than that, you have a hell of a simulator going on for yourself!

[briman94]

Hey Briman, one thing I've noticed is that you started the third track between Western and Damen east of Western Station. That track ends about 3/4 of the station on the west end (fully across the street). The east end is on Leavitt Street. The outbound switch track is on Lincoln Avenue and the inbound switch track is on Leavitt Street. I'll review your video again to help you out if I see some more discrepancies. Other than that, you have a hell of a simulator going on for yourself!

Thanks for the tip! The Google Maps overlay in the editor is a bit low res so it's sometimes difficult to see when the track ends, especially if it's in shadow.

[chicagopcclcar]

Thank you. At least there is one person who can explain things to correct people;s ideas about a subject rather than criticizing those people because they may not know.

Are you speaking about me? I have a name. Be a man enough and use it.

I say again....."What you guys need is a person who is employed and works with operating both DC and AC equipment and can explain how brakes function. Otherwise it's a case of the blind leading the blind."

Do you understand what I'm saying. You cannot learn to ride a bike by reading about biking. You cannot learn to fly an airplane by reading about airplanes. You can't fly either by watching a movie about flying or going on a plane trip. I asked birman94 because made statements that he knew about brakes, wheels, and train handling but he didn't know.

Note that Andre told you information but it is all about his experience. CTA no longer uses that equipment. CTA now uses the 1000 DC cars since then and more importantly, the 550 AC cars since then.

A word about Busjack....he and I don't see eye to eye. Krambles' book was not written to teach him how to drive a train.

I through on this subject.

[briman94]

Are you speaking about me? I have a name. Be a man enough and use it.

I say again....."What you guys need is a person who is employed and works with operating both DC and AC equipment and can explain how brakes function. Otherwise it's a case of the blind leading the blind."

Do you understand what I'm saying. You cannot learn to ride a bike by reading about biking. You cannot learn to fly an airplane by reading about airplanes. You can't fly either by watching a movie about flying or going on a plane trip. I asked birman94 because made statements that he knew about brakes, wheels, and train handling but he didn't know.

Note that Andre told you information but it is all about his experience. CTA no longer uses that equipment. CTA now uses the 1000 DC cars since then and more importantly, the 550 AC cars since then.

A word about Busjack....he and I don't see eye to eye. Krambles' book was not written to teach him how to drive a train.

I partially agree with this, but combining the knowledge gained from reading about principles and the experience gained from riding the trains every day for almost three years and watching the drivers, I can get a feel for how a train would operate. This is how I based my modifications to Train Simulator's trains in preparation for making the CTA.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

I partially agree with this, but combining the knowledge gained from reading about principles and the experience gained from riding the trains every day for almost three years and watching the drivers, I can get a feel for how a train would operate. This is how I based my modifications to Train Simulator's trains in preparation for making the CTA.

Good point. That's honestly good enough for me, and maybe even other chicagobus.org forum members. Since home simulators currently do not have the capacity to replicate the real deal, I don't see what the fuss is about anyways. So you don't know everything about how to start/stop a train, that doesn't stop you from trying to learn and asking good questions. Thankfully Andrethebusman gave us some valuable information that will help you. Keep up the good work, even I'm learning something here!

Anyways, are the 5000s still being delivered to the Red Line?

[briman94]

Anyways, are the 5000s still being delivered to the Red Line?

I'm pretty sure they are. I saw a 554x today, and I think they're only up to about 5550 (almost to 5555!). If the red line's not getting them, they have some rearranging to do to get those 2600s off and we might actually start seeing some 5000s on orange or brown finally!

[peter.pyterek]

I'm pretty sure they are. I saw a 554x today, and I think they're only up to about 5550 (almost to 5555!). If the red line's not getting them, they have some rearranging to do to get those 2600s off and we might actually start seeing some 5000s on orange or brown finally!

Yes, they are being delivered and assigned to the Red & Purple Lines.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

I'm pretty sure they are. I saw a 554x today, and I think they're only up to about 5550 (almost to 5555!). If the red line's not getting them, they have some rearranging to do to get those 2600s off and we might actually start seeing some 5000s on orange or brown finally!

Thanks. The highest I've been on is around 53XX.

[BusHunter]

#5529-30 has finally made an apperance on the red line run #924 presently pulling into Monroe sb.

[garmon757]

#5529-30 has finally made an apperance on the red line run #924 presently pulling into Monroe sb.

You are awfully late on that!!!

[BusHunter]

5529 has been at skokie since September

what you talking about Garmon? (Different Strokes) Others members and I haven't seen this car since the rodeo.

[garmon757]

what you talking about Garmon? (Different Strokes) Others members and I haven't seen this car since the rodeo.

You a fool!!! I've been seeing #5529-30 for over a week now mostly on the south side.

[Brandon93]

I'm pretty sure they are. I saw a 554x today, and I think they're only up to about 5550 (almost to 5555!). If the red line's not getting them, they have some rearranging to do to get those 2600s off and we might actually start seeing some 5000s on orange or brown finally!

5541-42 are on The Red.

[BusHunter]

You a fool!!! I've been seeing #5529-30 for over a week now mostly on the south side.

Yeah, but you make it sound like it's been here for weeks. Maybe it's been in 98th shop or somewhere because I haven't seen it. I've seen the other cars in the #5530's at least 3 times entire set too. My thinking is that it recently showed up with #5541-42.

Oh BTW, #5493-94 was back on the Red line don't know if that's borrowed or not.

[BusHunter]

#5539-40 is on the red line approaching 63rd SB.

[garmon757]

Yeah, but you make it sound like it's been here for weeks. Maybe it's been in 98th shop or somewhere because I haven't seen it. I've seen the other cars in the #5530's at least 3 times entire set too. My thinking is that it recently showed up with #5541-42.

Oh BTW, #5493-94 was back on the Red line don't know if that's borrowed or not.

Hmm, I see. Did you see #5413-14 back on the Red Line even though it's been nearly two weeks after that happened? I was on #5540 this morning but forgot to mentioned it and take shots because I was in a rush to get to school.

[peter.pyterek]

#5539-40 is on the red line approaching 63rd SB.

Which yard is it assigned to? Because if the run number starts with 8, then Howard - if it starts with 9, then 98th Street.

[briman94]

5515-5516 and 5321-5322 just passed Adams/Wabash Not In Service going North. What on earth are 5500s doing on the south side elevated?

[Busjack]

5515-5516 and 5321-5322 just passed Adams/Wabash Not In Service going North. What on earth are 5500s doing on the south side elevated?

Some of them have been assigned to the Green Line since about car 5045. Thus, the question is not so much why they are on the SSM, but whether there was some sort of car swap with the Red Line.

Of course, Not In Service can mean virtually anything other than they are in service.

[briman94]

I just saw 5508 pass going NB on the Armitage incline. It had pretty bad graffiti tagging on the driver's side, covering the entire lower wall section between the doors. Pretty disappointing if you ask me.

[garmon757]

I just saw 5508 pass going NB on the Armitage incline. It had pretty bad graffiti tagging on the driver's side, covering the entire lower wall section between the doors. Pretty disappointing if you ask me.

You ain't never lying because I've spotted it on State/Lake but couldn't get a shot of it because I was heading home south. It was tagged as "CWM".

[briman94]

5541-5542 in service NB approaching Belmont (rear of train).