5000-series - Updates

[jtrosario]

...Unless something happened in the last 6 months, they should have known from the 1-1/2 years of testing whether they could have run them there.

That's what I first thought, too. Then, as a wild guess, maybe the 5000s weigh more than the 2600s and there was a concern of deteriorating the track bed even faster with heavier cars. Or perhaps with more standees fitting in the 5000s the weight factor goes up. As far as I remember, even the "Max Capacity" cars weren't run nor tested on the Red line.

UPDATE:

From http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/roster/5000mkII.html

and other pages

5000-series 57,000 lbs

3200-series 54,290 lbs

2600-series 54,140 lbs

2400-series 54,300 lbs

3200 series and lower weigh over a ton less than the 5000s.

[Busjack]

...As far as I remember, even the "Max Capacity" cars weren't run nor tested on the Red line.

The max capacity cars were only a "Japanese style" supposed solution for overcrowding during Three Track.

[chicagopcclcar]

CTA Source regarding use of rail cars on the Red Line:

http://www.transitch...o.com/redsouth/

Under "Why Close the Red Line South for This Work?"

. Continued use of older rail cars for 4 years (noisier, less smooth ride)

This could be read as no 5000s along the un-rebuilt Dan Ryan, meaning that 5000s won't be on the Red line until the reroute to Green line tracks begin, at the earliest.

Interesting that by then the Green line (including its South branches) will have all 5000s. I would venture to say that as part of the reroute the Red line would then have to get all 5000s to ensure that those same South branches have security cameras on all cars during the spring/summer of 2013. Hence, when the Dan Ryan reopens later in 2013 all the 5000s are in place already. Although not easy, if at all possible, it would be advantageous to switch the entire Red Line to 5000s the same night it gets switched over for 5 months to the Ashland/63rd tracks.

IMHO there are too many people on this board trying to spectulate about where and why and when the CTA will assign 5000 series cars. There is nothing in the quoted statement that says 5000 series cars will or will not be assigned where. You might find your life much easier if you just let the CTA assign the 5000 series cars where they want. Life will be much more easier. Maybe if won't be as much fun as guessin' but that'll give you time to do something else.

David H.

[jtrosario]

IMHO there are too many people on this board trying to spectulate about where and why and when the CTA will assign 5000 series cars. There is nothing in the quoted statement that says 5000 series cars will or will not be assigned where. You might find your life much easier if you just let the CTA assign the 5000 series cars where they want. Life will be much more easier. Maybe if won't be as much fun as guessin' but that'll give you time to do something else.

David H.

Thank you for your concern about our time management. During the Red Line Reconstruction meeting I attended last Thursday night, Forrest Claypool (from the CTA) mentioned several times that the Dan Ryan portion of the Red Line needed to be reconstructed and that even though people on the south side will have to endure 5 months of rerouting, when finished they would be "riding down the Dan Ryan 20 minutes faster in brand new rail cars." Please forgive me for my presumption that the brand new rail cars mentioned (by the CTA in a public meeting) would be the 5000s. Also, it is not my intention to make you or anyone else's life more difficult by choosing to read an online post.

[chicagopcclcar]

Thank you for your concern about our time management. During the Red Line Reconstruction meeting I attended last Thursday night, Forrest Claypool (from the CTA) mentioned several times that the Dan Ryan portion of the Red Line needed to be reconstructed and that even though people on the south side will have to endure 5 months of rerouting, when finished they would be "riding down the Dan Ryan 20 minutes faster in brand new rail cars." Please forgive me for my presumption that the brand new rail cars mentioned (by the CTA in a public meeting) would be the 5000s. Also, it is not my intention to make you or anyone else's life more difficult by choosing to read an online post.

Don't worry about me...I actually enjoy the discussions. I listen very little to what presidents and chairmen say, whatever the department. I talk with the vice presidents and the managers...they're the ones charged with the day-to-day running of things and they're also the ones who know what's happening. Public hearing and forums are merely to placate, soothe, and calm, not that anything is wrong with that.

Truthfully, there is nothing about the Red line track renewal that would affect where 5000s are assigned. The biggest challenge is equipping the mechanical servicing facilities to handle a new kind of car. 5000s will ride smoothly at 55 MPH and at 15 MPH and maybe after the rehab at 70 MPH. And the Ryan line DOES have 70 MPH signalling.

David H.

[i8itall4u]

Don't worry about me...I actually enjoy the discussions. I listen very little to what presidents and chairmen say, whatever the department. I talk with the vice presidents and the managers...they're the ones charged with the day-to-day running of things and they're also the ones who know what's happening. Public hearing and forums are merely to placate, soothe, and calm, not that anything is wrong with that.

Truthfully, there is nothing about the Red line track renewal that would affect where 5000s are assigned. The biggest challenge is equipping the mechanical servicing facilities to handle a new kind of car. 5000s will ride smoothly at 55 MPH and at 15 MPH and maybe after the rehab at 70 MPH. And the Ryan line DOES have 70 MPH signalling.

David H.

Point taken. I saw the wayside 70 mph sign just south of 87th street recently. Even though we have a pretty good transit system, it's still a damn shame none of our lines have 70 mph service.

[Busjack]

Point taken. I saw the wayside 70 mph sign just south of 87th street recently. Even though we have a pretty good transit system, it's still a damn shame none of our lines have 70 mph service.

If past trends exist, you never will. When the 2000s and 2200s came out, they said they were capable of 70, but were limited to 55.

The difference is that back in that day, the L cars scooted past traffic on the expressway. With the Dan Ryan now being 35% slow zone, with 2/3 of that being 15 mph, that isn't the case now. But with it being 35% when it supposedly was 0 when the last project was finished in early 2007, CTA better provide evidence that this fix is going to last a lot longer.

[chicagopcclcar]

If past trends exist, you never will. When the 2000s and 2200s came out, they said they were capable of 70, but were limited to 55.

The difference is that back in that day, the L cars scooted past traffic on the expressway. With the Dan Ryan now being 35% slow zone, with 2/3 of that being 15 mph, that isn't the case now. But with it being 35% when it supposedly was 0 when the last project was finished in early 2007, CTA better provide evidence that this fix is going to last a lot longer.

The question about whether to run 70 MPH or not goes back to the original Skokie Swift. 70 MPH uses a lot of power so the question becomes is the added speed worth the cost. With the Skokie line the answer moved to "No." That same principle has guided the 'L' system to this day. Now comes talk about speeding up the O'Hare line, which does have 70 MPH signalling and has ample amounts of right-of-way that can sustain that speed. The Ryan line will also have trackwork after the rehab. So the question is being debated anew....is the speed worth the cost??

David H.

[Busjack]

So the question is being debated anew....is the speed worth the cost??

David H.

On the north side, you'll never have it with stations every 3 blocks apart.

The question would be whether the cars could even get up to 70 with the 1 mile spacing on the south side and if the tracks were fixed. Supposedly the regenerative braking would get the power back into the third rail (as opposed to dissipating it through the resisters) but one would have to even then question how efficiently.

Of course, not to mention that due to the cutback in seating capacity in the 5000s, they would be throwing the passengers all over the cars if they ran them in jackrabbit fashion. Not even Claypool can alter the law of inertia (update: Newton's First Law of Motion).

[artthouwill]

Just.spotted what was either an out of service or broken down Punk Line train consisting of 5000s. It appeared to be heading southbound, havin just cleared the Paulina junction. Though it appeared to be heading South, there was an operator in the rear cab. There was no signage on that train.

[i8itall4u]

On the north side, you'll never have it with stations every 3 blocks apart.

The question would be whether the cars could even get up to 70 with the 1 mile spacing on the south side and if the tracks were fixed. Supposedly the regenerative braking would get the power back into the third rail (as opposed to dissipating it through the resisters) but one would have to even then question how efficiently.

Of course, not to mention that due to the cutback in seating capacity in the 5000s, they would be throwing the passengers all over the cars if they ran them in jackrabbit fashion. Not even Claypool can alter the law of inertia (update: Newton's First Law of Motion).

See? This is the kind of thinking from Top Management that keeps us behind. Other places have done it.

[Busjack]

..Other places have done it.

Unclear antecedent to it. Repealed Newton's First Law?

[Busjack]

Just.spotted what was either an out of service or broken down Punk Line train consisting of 5000s. It appeared to be heading southbound, havin just cleared the Paulina junction. Though it appeared to be heading South, there was an operator in the rear cab. There was no signage on that train.

According to the home page, there was another explanation for it, not involving the cars.

[BusHunter]

Updated my #5000's list for the month of June. I have 88 arrived so far. There may be some more over this weekend. For some strange reason though, Skokie Shops didn't appear to have any cars last week. There may be a slowdown because they may be getting the colored LED destination signs soon if #5119-20 is any indication, although I'm skeptical of the Tribune report. It looks as though that colored sign was placed over the destination sign. More like there's something they don't want you to see.

[Busjack]

Updated my #5000's list for the month of June. I have 88 arrived so far. There may be some more over this weekend.

Since it has been a year since your last post, among other things, have the ones here for testing (5003-5012) ever returned from the supposed retrofits?

[Mr.cta85]

This just in according to an article on cta's website the 5000 series today made their Green Line debut. They've added one 6car train today and will add more until of course the Green Line is fully equippted with the new cars. But my question is do they (the 5000's) have the new color LED signs on them, I guess we'll find out sooner than later.

[chicagopcclcar]

On the north side, you'll never have it with stations every 3 blocks apart.

The question would be whether the cars could even get up to 70 with the 1 mile spacing on the south side and if the tracks were fixed. Supposedly the regenerative braking would get the power back into the third rail (as opposed to dissipating it through the resisters) but one would have to even then question how efficiently.

Of course, not to mention that due to the cutback in seating capacity in the 5000s, they would be throwing the passengers all over the cars if they ran them in jackrabbit fashion. Not even Claypool can alter the law of inertia (update: Newton's First Law of Motion).

You're missing the major point of 70 MPH which is similar to the situation with Amtrak's Acela Express 150 MPH on the Northeast Corridor. On the Corridor, many will cite that the Acela only gets to the 150 MPH for about 30-35 miles out of the entire Boston to Washington, DC journey. What they are overlooking is the large expanses where the Acela is doing 125 MPH plus, faster than conventional Corridor equipment, and the more rapid acceleration and deceleration with the excess power available.

Thus the 70 MPH on capable stretches of CTA in the medians and subway will be a faster trip overall. Presently the 70 MPH cab signal is just to keep trains from being forced to make penalty brake applications.

David H.

[artthouwill]

This just in according to an article on cta's website the 5000 series today made their Green Line debut. They've added one 6car train today and will add more until of course the Green Line is fully equippted with the new cars. But my question is do they (the 5000's) have the new color LED signs on them, I guess we'll find out sooner than later.

That train. Was actually at the Harlem station but before I could get close, the train was pulled into the yard and a 2400 ,series was pulled out of the yard

[sw4400]

Very generic post in the Press Release from the CTA about the 5000's post-Green Line...

"One, six-car train is added to the existing fleet on the Green Line, and additional trains will be added thereafter. The new cars will replace the 2400-series cars in service on the Green Line, which are 35 years old.

The 5000-series will continue to be added throughout the summer until the entire Green Line fleet is replaced. 5000-series cars will then be added to other lines."

Full Press Release

So, the next line could be any of the others outside of the Red Line, which most likely won't see their allotment until the Dan Ryan project is completed... Blue, Brown, Orange, Yellow, Purple. The Red Line will most likely keep 2600's until the completion, then go 5000's at that time, like the Green Line in 1992-1993 when it closed for a year for renovation... it was a all 2000-Series roster. Upon re-opening, it went to 2400's and all the 2000's were retired. In this case, the 2600's will be re-assigned.

[RJL6000]

...like the Green Line in 1992-1993 when it closed for a year for renovation... it was a all 2000-Series roster. Upon re-opening, it went to 2400's and all the 2000's were retired. In this case, the 2600's will be re-assigned.

Actually, the Green Line in 1993-1994 did have some 2600s assigned to it along with the 2000s. As the 2000s were phased out of service during 1993, the Green Line ran entirely with 2600s during the last week of service before its 2.5-year shutdown on January 9, 1994.

[sw4400]

According to pieced together information on the current rosters, the Green Line 6-car unit should be 5031-5032,5111-5114. The only unknown is units 5003-5012, which haven't been seen since being withdrawn from service for emergency repairs and units 5087-5104, which haven't been reported seen yet. Will these units be assigned to the Green Line or to make the rosters more consistent, or given to the Pink Line and some of their later-numbered 5000's will be transferred to the Green Line?

[Mr.cta85]

Now that the 5000's are coming to the Green Line I wonder will they (even after morning and afternoon rush hour) continue to run 6 car series insteand of 4 like they currently run now.

[Busjack]

Now that the 5000's are coming to the Green Line I wonder will they (even after morning and afternoon rush hour) continue to run 6 car series insteand of 4 like they currently run now.

Both have to go through Tower 18 junction, and no one has officially said whether there is a problem there or not.

[chicagopcclcar]

Both have to go through Tower 18 junction, and no one has officially said whether there is a problem there or not.

SB Garfield Green Sunday 07/01/12 approximately 1200:

CTA5081, CTA5021, CTA5077

Older cars all yellow signage.

Since it is a six-car consist, that answers you guys' spectulation. The 2400s today were all four-car consists. Glad to have been of help.

David H.

[See Tea Eh]

Saw the train twice this afternoon. Once northbound, leaving Madison/Wabash. Once southbound, leaving Clark/Lake towards Cottage Grove.