7000-series - Delivery & Updates

[Sam92]

46 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I can follow your logic. But CTA did a poor job execution.   The Blue Line should have received power upgrades during the 5000s testing period

  Then upon accepting the order, the Red and Blue should have received these cars.  They may have needed to order additional cars to fill both lines and even more cars if Yellow and Purple needed them.  Or put the 5009s on Brown instead or Pink and Green. 

I think when the dust settles as far as both series being here the assignments are gonna be red, purple, yellow, brown and orange get one series (accounting for keeping fleet interchangeability and brownages) which means they get the 7000s and leave 34 spares. Blue Pink and Green get all the 5000s  which would have 102 left over spares. 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

I think when the dust settles as far as both series being here the assignments are gonna be red, purple, yellow, brown and orange get one series (accounting for keeping fleet interchangeability and brownages) which means they get the 7000s and leave 34 spares. Blue Pink and Green get all the 5000s  which would have 102 left over spares. 

I think converting Red,  Purple,  and Yellow to 7000s and then converting Blue to 5000s is a massive problem.   One thing that you didn't account for was the eventual extension of the Red Line to 130th.  That wipes out spares, assuming the 3200s are fully retired. 

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

12 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I think converting Red,  Purple,  and Yellow to 7000s and then converting Blue to 5000s is a massive problem.   One thing that you didn't account for was the eventual extension of the Red Line to 130th.  That wipes out spares, assuming the 3200s are fully retired. 

so if the 3200’s retire then CTA has no choice but to put 5000’s or 7000’s on blue line

[Sam92]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I think converting Red,  Purple,  and Yellow to 7000s and then converting Blue to 5000s is a massive problem.   One thing that you didn't account for was the eventual extension of the Red Line to 130th.  That wipes out spares, assuming the 3200s are fully retired. 

Cta already did. Part of the reason why the order was increased for the 5000s was for expansions I’ll have to go back in check but keep in mind pre-5000 arrival we went from 1190 to 1490 cars. Green JUST went back to its rush frequency it had before 2010 cuts yet holds more cars same for a few other lines so there are plenty spares and extension cars accounted for. Then with the system slowly speeding up that also decreases the need since trains move faster decrowd added like 17 trips so that only needed 136 extra cars, so there’s still 200 extra sitting around which is enough for each line to currently have 3 8 car spares. And that stretches because only 4 lines run 8s. 

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Cta already did. Part of the reason why the order was increased for the 5000s was for expansions I’ll have to go back in check but keep in mind pre-5000 arrival we went from 1190 to 1490 cars. Green JUST went back to its rush frequency it had before 2010 cuts yet holds more cars same for a few other lines so there are plenty spares and extension cars accounted for. Then with the system slowly speeding up that also decreases the need since trains move faster decrowd added like 17 trips so that only needed 136 extra cars, so there’s still 200 extra sitting around which is enough for each line to currently have 3 8 car spares. And that stretches because only 4 lines run 8s. 

That is obviously assuming that CTA fully exercises the options totalling 756 cars.   By the time this is completed, the 5000s will be almost 20 years old and we will still have to listen to the chirping about the NW side getting the hand me down equipment while the South Side gets new equipment. 

I still think that the Blue and not the Red should get the 7000s.  Even though the math works well with the RPY, the simple movement is to directly replace the 2600s with 7000s.   

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

That is obviously assuming that CTA fully exercises the options totalling 756 cars.   By the time this is completed, the 5000s will be almost 20 years old and we will still have to listen to the chirping about the NW side getting the hand me down equipment while the South Side gets new equipment. 

I still think that the Blue and not the Red should get the 7000s.  Even though the math works well with the RPY, the simple movement is to directly replace the 2600s with 7000s.   

I think if the blue gets 7000s, it will be because cta has no other choice than to put them there. 5000s are incompatible with the forest park branch so they cant run without a major rehab.  They can only run 3200s until that decision has to be made. I think the brown and orange lines almost have to get the cars first just to purge the 2600s they have. The 3200s they purge will go to the blue line. So blue line has some time to figure out its issues. What they will receive is very much up in the air.

[NovaBusFan]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

That is obviously assuming that CTA fully exercises the options totalling 756 cars.   By the time this is completed, the 5000s will be almost 20 years old and we will still have to listen to the chirping about the NW side getting the hand me down equipment while the South Side gets new equipment. 

I still think that the Blue and not the Red should get the 7000s.  Even though the math works well with the RPY, the simple movement is to directly replace the 2600s with 7000s.   

756 cars for the #5000s? Don’t tell me that their actually going to increase the fleet again? Or is it just me??

[Sam92]

7 hours ago, NovaBusFan said:

756 cars for the #5000s? Don’t tell me that their actually going to increase the fleet again? Or is it just me??

He meant 756 7000s but the real total is 846 as far as I know 

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

17 hours ago, artthouwill said:

That is obviously assuming that CTA fully exercises the options totalling 756 cars.   By the time this is completed, the 5000s will be almost 20 years old and we will still have to listen to the chirping about the NW side getting the hand me down equipment while the South Side gets new equipment. 

I still think that the Blue and not the Red should get the 7000s.  Even though the math works well with the RPY, the simple movement is to directly replace the 2600s with 7000s.   

yea CTA wants to replace the 2600’s but if they are sticking to that they should really consider fixing up the congress branch before the deliveries begin and the 7000’s put into service 

[NovaBusFan]

6 hours ago, Sam92 said:

He meant 756 7000s but the real total is 846 as far as I know 

Oh ok I knew it was just me. I know they might end up getting all 846 cars if they exercise the options to replace the #3200s. I don’t want those to go tbh they are one of my favorites they’ve seem to be running fine after the rehab and they are no where near 40 years old. The fleet is 27-29 years of age.

[Sam92]

8 hours ago, NovaBusFan said:

Oh ok I knew it was just me. I know they might end up getting all 846 cars if they exercise the options to replace the #3200s. I don’t want those to go tbh they are one of my favorites they’ve seem to be running fine after the rehab and they are no where near 40 years old. The fleet is 27-29 years of age.

Welp only thing riding the subway is good for now is seeing what the ends look like. ? no more visiting a line for its cars. 

[NovaBusFan]

45 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Welp only thing riding the subway is good for now is seeing what the ends look like. ? no more visiting a line for its cars. 

True and the only thing that is really left for the #3200s in my opinion is to ride them while we can just in case even tho they still have a lot of time in service. I just pray they survive into the 2030s.

[Sam92]

On 10/21/2021 at 6:47 PM, artthouwill said:

That is obviously assuming that CTA fully exercises the options totalling 756 cars.   By the time this is completed, the 5000s will be almost 20 years old and we will still have to listen to the chirping about the NW side getting the hand me down equipment while the South Side gets new equipment. 

I still think that the Blue and not the Red should get the 7000s.  Even though the math works well with the RPY, the simple movement is to directly replace the 2600s with 7000s.   

Well if what garmon said still ends up happening then orange and brown still get 7000s over blue cause at some point all 3200s are due to go to blue. Then when you take car transfers and maintenance into consideration it’s easier to keep Green Blue and Pink with the same equipment while the other 5 lines share the other set cause of transferibility on the fly. Blue is isolated but at least green and pink have an easier connection to each other through Paulina connector which probably why they were group the way they were on the  roll signs. The fact that there are enough 5000s on green and pink to technically equip the orange line (which would’ve been more logical ridership wise) but chose those kinda makes me think that’s what’s gonna happen

[NovaBusFan]

13 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Well if what garmon said still ends up happening then orange and brown still get 7000s over blue cause at some point all 3200s are due to go to blue. Then when you take car transfers and maintenance into consideration it’s easier to keep Green Blue and Pink with the same equipment while the other 5 lines share the other set cause of transferibility on the fly. Blue is isolated but at least green and pink have an easier connection to each other through Paulina connector which probably why they were group the way they were on the  roll signs. The fact that there are enough 5000s on green and pink to technically equip the orange line (which would’ve been more logical ridership wise) but chose those kinda makes me think that’s what’s gonna happen

Imagine if CTA and IDOT already been rebuilt everything including tracks, stations etc, and the Ike, then run newer equipment on the Congress branch, #5000s or #7000s CTA is trying to outfit the Blue Line with. In my opinion would they try to fit all 400 cars on the Blue Line? if they’ve already built everything?that’s just my guess. We are years from Construction for the Ike and reconstruction for the Congress branch lol.

[Sam92]

3 minutes ago, NovaBusFan said:

Imagine if CTA and IDOT already been rebuilt everything including tracks, stations etc, and the Ike, then run newer equipment on the Congress branch, #5000s or #7000s CTA is trying to outfit the Blue Line with. In my opinion would they try to fit all 400 cars on the Blue Line? if they’ve already built everything?that’s just my guess. We are years from Construction for the Ike and reconstruction for the Congress branch lol.

Hell that’s gonna give this a headache which is probably why cta said they’ll at least get started on sme part of it. Maybe they might do a phase 2 to Cicero right after which will take care of most of the line till they finally get to the end with the middle ramps. 

[NovaBusFan]

2 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Hell that’s gonna give this a headache which is probably why cta said they’ll at least get started on sme part of it. Maybe they might do a phase 2 to Cicero right after which will take care of most of the line till they finally get to the end with the middle ramps. 

True, let’s do a small portion at a time to reduce heavy duty headaches. 

[BusHunter]

16 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Well if what garmon said still ends up happening then orange and brown still get 7000s over blue cause at some point all 3200s are due to go to blue. Then when you take car transfers and maintenance into consideration it’s easier to keep Green Blue and Pink with the same equipment while the other 5 lines share the other set cause of transferibility on the fly. Blue is isolated but at least green and pink have an easier connection to each other through Paulina connector which probably why they were group the way they were on the  roll signs. The fact that there are enough 5000s on green and pink to technically equip the orange line (which would’ve been more logical ridership wise) but chose those kinda makes me think that’s what’s gonna happen

Only one small problem with that. Blue line uses more than the 240 cars max (3200's) it could receive. (They cant run the roof board cars) CTA is alright for the first few 7000s to come in cause they can displace whats on the brown and orange. But after blue line receives the balance of the 240 it has 160 cars it cant replace. To make matters worse it cant replace the 240 it will then have as well. If the 5000s are too heavy and the 7000s cant run on forest pk the only option is a line cut. Or it can run all older cars as forest park trains and uic as 5000s or 7000s. But that only buys you time. Tick tock tick tock cta!! Lol!!

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Only one small problem with that. Blue line uses more than the 240 cars max (3200's) it could receive. (They cant run the roof board cars) CTA is alright for the first few 7000s to come in cause they can displace whats on the brown and orange. But after blue line receives the balance of the 240 it has 160 cars it cant replace. To make matters worse it cant replace the 240 it will then have as well. If the 5000s are too heavy and the 7000s cant run on forest pk the only option is a line cut. Or it can run all older cars as forest park trains and uic as 5000s or 7000s. But that only buys you time. Tick tock tick tock cta!! Lol!!

I think what’s gonna happen the reason for the sense of urgency with phase I the IMD turnback is to arrange it better than UIC to handle more rush hour short turns to where what you suggested might happen. With the Dan Ryan 63rd isn’t a good enough turnback so you had to send every train out south but blue I doubt the FP side needs the 3 min headways it still gets. That might allow newer cars to not mess it up as much

[NovaBusFan]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Only one small problem with that. Blue line uses more than the 240 cars max (3200's) it could receive. (They cant run the roof board cars) CTA is alright for the first few 7000s to come in cause they can displace whats on the brown and orange. But after blue line receives the balance of the 240 it has 160 cars it cant replace. To make matters worse it cant replace the 240 it will then have as well. If the 5000s are too heavy and the 7000s cant run on forest pk the only option is a line cut. Or it can run all older cars as forest park trains and uic as 5000s or 7000s. But that only buys you time. Tick tock tick tock cta!! Lol!!

The most saddest part in this scenario of the Blue Line is that the ceiling in the Kimball subway isn’t high enough for the roof board #3200s to fit through. There are so many issues going on when it comes to newer cars on that line. If they plan on sending more of the #3200s on the Blue Line to replace more #2600s, that sounds like the roof board ones on the Brown Line will stay there even tho there will only a small amount on that line if the Blue Line will be mostly #3200s, and with the Brown Line is mostly #2600s until the #7000s break in.

[BusHunter]

20 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

I think what’s gonna happen the reason for the sense of urgency with phase I the IMD turnback is to arrange it better than UIC to handle more rush hour short turns to where what you suggested might happen. With the Dan Ryan 63rd isn’t a good enough turnback so you had to send every train out south but blue I doubt the FP side needs the 3 min headways it still gets. That might allow newer cars to not mess it up as much

Do you think when the 130th red line extension gets built they might want to construct a turn track somewhere out south. Basically all 130 would serve is the altgeld gardens unless they could fan in riders from hegewisch. They would need a bus line though. The yard was supposed to be constructed north of 130th so they could always do like rosemont and miss the first stiop. 

[BusHunter]

15 minutes ago, NovaBusFan said:

The most saddest part in this scenario of the Blue Line is that the ceiling in the Kimball subway isn’t high enough for the roof board #3200s to fit through. There are so many issues going on when it comes to newer cars on that line. If they plan on sending more of the #3200s on the Blue Line to replace more #2600s, that sounds like the roof board ones on the Brown Line will stay there even tho there will only a small amount on that line if the Blue Line will be mostly #3200s, and with the Brown Line is mostly #2600s until the #7000s break in.

They might have to explore removing the roof boards cause like you say those cars will be orphaned from the system. IRM would probably like those cars but it cant use a pan system. Somewhere down the line they might have to equip it though. They got a few pan trains like the NEC trains. I think they have a GG1

[NewFlyerMCI]

42 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Do you think when the 130th red line extension gets built they might want to construct a turn track somewhere out south. Basically all 130 would serve is the altgeld gardens unless they could fan in riders from hegewisch. They would need a bus line though. The yard was supposed to be constructed north of 130th so they could always do like rosemont and miss the first stiop. 

That’s only walk-up riders tho. Pace is almost certainly going to reconfigure routes to serve the station so that it looks like Forest Park, Davis or Rosemont. As for Hegewisch, CTA would probably switch the 30 and have it end there and the new northern terminus be 79th/Stony or 92nd/Buffalo.

All that aside, why wouldn’t CTA be able to have both the yard and a turn track (I’m assuming you mean something like the balloon loop at Howard)?

[Sam92]

15 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

That’s only walk-up riders tho. Pace is almost certainly going to reconfigure routes to serve the station so that it looks like Forest Park, Davis or Rosemont. As for Hegewisch, CTA would probably switch the 30 and have it end there and the new northern terminus be 79th/Stony or 92nd/Buffalo.

All that aside, why wouldn’t CTA be able to have both the yard and a turn track (I’m assuming you mean something like the balloon loop at Howard)?

We’re talking turnbacks as in a middle track somewhere like Morgan middle or so. 

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Do you think when the 130th red line extension gets built they might want to construct a turn track somewhere out south. Basically all 130 would serve is the altgeld gardens unless they could fan in riders from hegewisch. They would need a bus line though. The yard was supposed to be constructed north of 130th so they could always do like rosemont and miss the first stiop. 

Depends. The trouble with this is the load balancing if they don’t decide to start using purple to alternate with reds up north to stop sending unnecessary reds out south. The extension is spreading everyone out and making the far south routes straighter as a result since they don’t have to curve up to 95th so turnbacks are a question of will there be any big enough drop off after a certain point south to warrant a turnback. Apparently put-ins from 98th are gonna be a no go according to documents (something to do with inefficient movements). When I lived south and close enough to the red line, during rush hours trains came into 95th with a lot of people switching to 34 or whatever corridor they wanted. If they still build a turnback at argyle then MAYBE some Argyle to 63rd trains can help. Trains from 130th can handle the heaviest hitting stations which are 69th, 79th and 95th then 63rd an empty train can come in and help ease the loads. Maybe 3-4 min argyle-63rd and 4-8 min on the outer ends? 

[NovaBusFan]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Do you think when the 130th red line extension gets built they might want to construct a turn track somewhere out south. Basically all 130 would serve is the altgeld gardens unless they could fan in riders from hegewisch. They would need a bus line though. The yard was supposed to be constructed north of 130th so they could always do like rosemont and miss the first stiop. 

What if they made a 130 street bus route that serves 130th but the 130 is the Museum Campus.