7000-series - Delivery & Updates

[Busjack]

A few other things from the scribd decision:

• Notice to proceed was issued on April 8, 2016, so the clock is now running. [Disregard anything what I previously said about the NTP.]
• The second Bombardier bid was about the same as the first Sumitomo bid.
• On the US jobs created point, Bombardier included subcontractors while CSR did not, and since CSR proposed mostly the same subcontractors, proposed more new U.S. jobs.
• Any statement Emanuel made did not refer to CSR and was made long after the evaluation committee scored the proposals.
• Bombardier filed essentially the same protest against CNR with MBTA, and then joined the Huyndai-Rotem suit, which H-R lost (although the writer disclaimed going into Bombardier's motivation).
• Although Bombardier said it could deliver the cars a year earlier than CSR, it was 10 months late on the prototype 5000s, a year late on the rest of the 5000s,  and late on other orders. Then it claimed that CTA would be imposing liquidated damages based on the accelerated schedule Bombardier itself proposed.
• Bombaridier was given an opportunity to supplement its protest after CTA produced what FOIA materials it did.

[sw4400]

Anyone think that what happened on November 8th, 2016 might have some impact on the whole CTA/CSR contract for the 7000-Series railcars?

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, sw4400 said:

Anyone think that what happened on November 8th, 2016 might have some impact on the whole CTA/CSR contract for the 7000-Series railcars?

Only if only huge tariffs are put on imports, but probably not even that, as they still will have 69% U.S, content.

[garmon757]

1 hour ago, chicagopcclcar said:

No one saw a special consist of 5000 series running on the Blue line.....testing suspension equipment....no doubt in preparation of 7000 series contracts.  They are scheduled to return with bags of sand to simulate actual passenger loads.  If you see them on the Forest Park branch don't start rumors that 5000s are going to the Blue line, LOL. Known as being rough trackage, the Forest Park is a good test for railcar suspension.  

 

DH

How long would that be going on for?

[garmon757]

11 minutes ago, chicagopcclcar said:

Next week.  Look for wiring on the outside supporting sensors.

DH

Thanks

[Busjack]

Be there or be square.

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

Be there or be square.

Question is what happens after the order is filled?

[Busjack]

19 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Question is what happens after the order is filled?

Asked and answered before. If CRRC doesn't get another contract by 2026, it becomes like the Pullman and Amerail plants. And Chicago undoubtedly will have a new mare by then.

Same question could be raised about the Nippon Sharyo USA plant in Rochelle.Looks like that's all they'll get from Metra for a while (other than the assigned VRE options, if that deal has gone through), but they say they have a contract for high level passenger cars with Caltrans and IDOT.

[geneking7320]

I just hope federal funding is not cut prior to completion of the order.

[sw4400]

31 minutes ago, geneking7320 said:

I just hope federal funding is not cut prior to completion of the order.

As this pertains to funds for the 7000-Series, I will say this..... There was talk by a certain individual about defunding Chicago of Federal funding from everything except law enforcement purposes because we are a sanctuary city, and that's all I'm going to say on that point on the forum. PM if you want to discuss this further...

[Busjack]

53 minutes ago, geneking7320 said:

I just hope federal funding is not cut prior to completion of the order.

 

23 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

As this pertains to funds for the 7000-Series, I will say this..... There was talk by a certain individual about defunding Chicago of Federal funding from everything except law enforcement purposes because we are a sanctuary city, and that's all I'm going to say on that point on the forum. PM if you want to discuss this further...

Transportation appropriations are part of multiyear transportation bills, not the general federal budget, nor appropriations for general city programs.If I were concerned about any budget issue, it would be state appropriations.

However, unless this contract is like the average Pace one that says in about 5 different ways that the contract is terminated if there isn't any money, I am assuming that CTA has identified the funds for the quantity indicated in the Notice to Proceed, although (maybe due to the protest) I don't see the usual Press Release with the contract award saying what the funding sources (such as TIFIA or CTA bonds) are.

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, Busjack said:

I don't see the usual Press Release with the contract award saying what the funding sources (such as TIFIA or CTA bonds) are.

The ABC7 story reminded me that part of that board meeting video was approving the bond issue.

[Busjack]

City/CTA Press Release.

I also note that this (and news stories undoubtedly based on this) refer to the base order of 400 cars. Was the Railway Gazette article noted here incorrect?

In the meantime, a Twitter snarker already struck:

Considering my next door neighbors, it probably will be garlic chive.

 

[Busjack]

BusHunter's comment here just made it dawn on me that the picture attached to the CTA Tweet looks like some blue was electronically painted onto something else, rather than the CRRC concept:

 

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

BusHunter's comment here just made it dawn on me that the picture attached to the CTA Tweet looks like some blue was electronically painted onto something else, rather than the CRRC concept:

 

Yeah it looks like the rendering was altered since the original announcement for the cars, since the biggest difference is that the cars are now approaching Tower 12 instead of a CRRC station. 

[Juniorz]

45 minutes ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

Yeah it looks like the rendering was altered since the original announcement for the cars, since the biggest difference is that the cars are now approaching Tower 12 instead of a CRRC station. 

Well, this is part of the design process, so it was kind of obvious that the design would change, but really didn't expect a radical departure from the original design. 

As to where the original looked more like the 2200s, this update version looks more like a modern 5000 with a blue decal insert.

[Busjack]

22 minutes ago, Juniorz said:

Well, this is part of the design process, so it was kind of obvious that the design would change, but really didn't expect a radical departure from the original design. 

As to where the original looked more like the 2200s, this update version looks more like a modern 5000 with a blue decal insert.

Your last sentence almost hit it but I think you swung and missed.

What I think happened (note my reference to electronic paint) is that somebody in the PR department put a picture of something else into Illustrator or Photoshop and slapped a different front on it, but certainly didn't portray a 7000 on the Wabash L. I really doubt CRRC, besides not having provided a train, did anything to the design. Any final design is probably 2 years down the road. If you want to slog through the response to the protest, the bid was not the final design on a number of points (such as the anticlimber dispute).

Similarly,

• Most of the TV shots of the interior look like the B end of a blue 5000. None of them showed the center section with or without the longitudinal seats.
• I implied that the discrepancy between the 400 and 490 car statements was something in the PR department. I suppose one could FOIA the real notice to proceed, but someone gave out information at some time without verifying it.

[Pink Jazz]

Interestingly, the destination sign isn't in color and shows 54/Cermak (Pink Line).  This makes me wonder if the Pink Line will be getting 7000s.

Considering that some of the 7000-series order will be for fleet expansion, perhaps the Pink and Green Lines can get 7000s, moving their 5000s to Howard Yard for the Red Line Expansion.  Does anyone think this might be a possibility?

[Juniorz]

29 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Your last sentence almost hit it but I think you swung and missed.

What I think happened (note my reference to electronic paint) is that somebody in the PR department put a picture of something else into Illustrator or Photoshop and slapped a different front on it, but certainly didn't portray a 7000 on the Wabash L. I really doubt CRRC, besides not having provided a train, did anything to the design. Any final design is probably 2 years down the road. If you want to slog through the response to the protest, the bid was not the final design on a number of points (such as the anticlimber dispute).

Similarly,

• Most of the TV shots of the interior look like the B end of a blue 5000. None of them showed the center section with or without the longitudinal seats.
• I implied that the discrepancy between the 400 and 490 car statements was something in the PR department. I suppose one could FOIA the real notice to proceed, but someone gave out information at some time without verifying it.

The updated 7000-series rendering was preformed by Resolute Consulting, so the last sentence wasn't a swing and a miss..............

the 490 cars statement was announced by myself and the addition of the 90 cars was approved by the USDOT, so the base order will now be 490 cars.

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/news/usdot-grants-cta-dol255-million-tifia-loan-for-railcars.html

[Juniorz]

8 minutes ago, Pink Jazz said:

Interestingly, the destination sign isn't in color and shows 54/Cermak (Pink Line).  This makes me wonder if the Pink Line will be getting 7000s.

Considering that some of the 7000-series order will be for fleet expansion, perhaps the Pink and Green Lines can get 7000s, moving their 5000s to Howard Yard for the Red Line Expansion.  Does anyone think this might be a possibility?

It was stated when revealed that the 2600s would be replaced first, so cars along the Blue and Orange Lines will be the first targets. 

By the time the 7000-series start arriving, the CTA will have another fleet that served a full generation, with the cars approaching 40+ years at the time of retirement.  The retirement of the 2600s will be very unique as these are the final examples produced by the Budd Company. 

 

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

1 hour ago, Juniorz said:

Well, this is part of the design process, so it was kind of obvious that the design would change, but really didn't expect a radical departure from the original design. 

As to where the original looked more like the 2200s, this update version looks more like a modern 5000 with a blue decal insert.

I think everyone would know that the design would change, so that isn't news. But the windows look more 5000-ish, so I'll give you half credit.

 

28 minutes ago, Pink Jazz said:

Interestingly, the destination sign isn't in color and shows 54/Cermak (Pink Line).  This makes me wonder if the Pink Line will be getting 7000s.

Not immediately when the 7000s arrive, but if the CTA shifts things around, that's always a possibility. And most likely the production 7000s will come with color signs. What's more interesting is the marker light configuration.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Juniorz said:

The updated 7000-series rendering was preformed by Resolute Consulting, so the last sentence wasn't a swing and a miss..............

But do you know who did the picture in the tweet? And on what it was based?

48 minutes ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

What's more interesting is the marker light configuration.

That's (and the mask around the headlights) about the only thing that is consistent with the CRRC rendering. Part of the spec was that the color maker light was supposed to be a multicolor LED, instead of having 4 different color marker lights.

[Juniorz]

Just now, Busjack said:

But do you know who did the picture in the tweet? And on what it was based?

That's about the only thing that is consistent with the CRRC rendering. Part of the spec was that the color maker light was supposed to be a multicolor LED, instead of having 4 different color marker lights.

The rendering was released by the agency and to the press, so i'm sure it's official. The consulting firm was identified, so if you need the specifics down to the time it was designed, i would contact either the cta, the mayor's office or the consulting firm that was identified. 

[Busjack]

13 minutes ago, Juniorz said:

The rendering was released by the agency and to the press

All that says is that "the agency" {I assume you mean CTA Public Relations} released something after putting it through Photoshop. In my opinion, whoever did the Photoshop job did a very poor job, as even @MTRSP1900-CTA3200 noted discrepancies.

Same thing with the link to the Railway Age. I did not deny that Railway Gazette said 490, and Railway Age also said 490. But since "the agency" said 400, someone goofed. By citing the 490 again, you are admitting that "the agency" goofed.

However, the one discrepancy between Railway Gazette and Railway Age is that Gazette indicated a base order of 490, while Age indicated TIFIA money for 490 and a base order of 400.DOT only says the money is available, it can't exercise an option; only the CTA Board can (or delegate that authority to the President).

Anyway., from my real work, I know what it is not to have a proofreader.

[Juniorz]

Regardless of "your real work", the consulting firm is the source, the USDOT confirmed that additional funding sources are in place for the order and further more, will not go into combative conversations period. 

Any additional questions and information can be either researched or by contacting the agencies listed.