Resumption of Pace routes and services

[rotjohns]

11 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I am watching the meeting now.  It's up on YouTube.   Search Pace Planning Committee.   I will comment later. 

 

Y

UPDATE ;  Nothing definitive except Plainfield opening in Summer 2022, River garage getting expanded

  It doesn't appear there are any plans to restore any routes.  It appears that the Metra feeders may never come back ck, at least in the form that we once knew

.

 

 

The feeders not coming back shouldn't be a surprise, they cost way too much money to operate.  They're honestly not really needed with many people running to the I-55 buses as of late and not dealing with Metra.  Plus Metra still isn't at pre-pandemic levels and probably won't be for years.  If people are taking Metra, they are either driving to the station themselves, using rideshare, or using a Pace Bus regular route to them (530, 715, and 834 are examples).  

[andrethebusman]

Metra feeders only existed because of parking lot capacity shortages. This is unlikely to ever occur again, at least not for years. So likely a good hundred fifty small ElDorados will likely never be needed again. 

[Railguy]

150?    How do you calculate?

[MetroShadow]

On 1/13/2022 at 7:35 PM, Railguy said:

150?    How do you calculate?

The demand out of all of the feeder garages (MV, First, North Shore, River) really doesn't call for all of those vehicles. Right-sizing Local routes in low-density areas that still don't require 40' buses would mean only a third of the buses are needed.

If the feeders aren't coming back, maybe there isn't a need to replace that many buses. 

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, MetroShadow said:

The demand out of all of the feeder garages (MV, First, North Shore, River) really doesn't call for all of those vehicles. Right-sizing Local routes in low-density areas that still don't require 40' buses would mean only a third of the buses are needed.

If the feeders aren't coming back, maybe there isn't a need to replace that many buses. 

If you look at the last planning committee video, there is mention of the possibility of shrinking 6 garages to 5. Considering the above, and such things as the gutting proposed by the aborted North Shore Service Coordination Plan, Allstate selling its campus, Northbrook Court being mostly vacant, and not much reverse feeder action, you can guess which one was meant.

 

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

23 minutes ago, Busjack said:

If you look at the last planning committee video, there is mention of the possibility of shrinking 6 garages to 5. Considering the above, and such things as the gutting proposed by the aborted North Shore Service Coordination Plan, Allstate selling its campus, Northbrook Court being mostly vacant, and not much reverse feeder action, you can guess which one was meant.

 

what ever happened to the north shore coordination plan wit CTA?

[Railguy]

Driving Innovation calls for stronger corridor development with more Pulse and high frequency services.    I could see replacement buses on these types of services along with more on-demand , vans and TNC services replacing low density low ridership type metra services

[Railguy]

45 minutes ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

what ever happened to the north shore coordination plan wit CTA?

Phase 1 completed a few yrs ago. It had several phases  dont think its dead

[Busjack]

48 minutes ago, Railguy said:

Phase 1 completed a few yrs ago. It had several phases  dont think its dead

Look at the correct topic. It is essentially dead in that form.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Railguy said:

Driving Innovation calls for stronger corridor development with more Pulse and high frequency services.    I could see replacement buses on these types of services along with more on-demand , vans and TNC services replacing low density low ridership type metra services

Surprisingly, there isn't a topic on Driving Innovation, but that's essentially what is planned. If you want to compare a post-COVID comeback, see the Reimagine RTS system by RGRTA/RTS Monroe. I don't expect others to know the detailed local conditions (which include Eastman Kodak going out of business), but essentially 40 or 60 foot buses are limited to the city of Rochester, nearby towns, and school trips (now called Neighborhood Direct), and just about everything else is On Demand (low floor paratransits and lift vans). Several routes were subsequently cut, either because they needed the vehicles for On Demand or lack of ridership. Interestingly, several towns had Dial-A-Ride about 45 years ago.

What Railguy says seems the direction Pace is going.

[artthouwill]

11 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Surprisingly, there isn't a topic on Driving Innovation, but that's essentially what is planned. If you want to compare a post-COVID comeback, see the Reimagine RTS system by RGRTA/RTS Monroe. I don't expect others to know the detailed local conditions (which include Eastman Kodak going out of business), but essentially 40 or 60 foot buses are limited to the city of Rochester, nearby towns, and school trips (now called Neighborhood Direct), and just about everything else is On Demand (low floor paratransits and lift vans). Several routes were subsequently cut, either because they needed the vehicles for On Demand or lack of ridership. Interestingly, several towns had Dial-A-Ride about 45 years ago.

What Railguy says seems the direction Pace is going.

Driving Innovation was covered at the Pace Planning Committee meeting this past Wednesday 

  The Van and Uber idea was to possibly replace Metra Feeder service. Lake County is looking to revamp some service.

[Railguy]

6 hours ago, Busjack said:

If you look at the last planning committee video, there is mention of the possibility of shrinking 6 garages to 5. Considering the above, and such things as the gutting proposed by the aborted North Shore Service Coordination Plan, Allstate selling its campus, Northbrook Court being mostly vacant, and not much reverse feeder action, you can guess which one was meant.

 

I heard watching   the same meetong the study has not yet and anything mentioned was ideas not a conclusion

[Railguy]

Typing error.   I heard same meeting and facility study has not started yet and it sounded these were ideas with no specifics of what the study would do.   Also mentioned the new priority program office will assist.

[MetroShadow]

18 hours ago, Busjack said:

If you look at the last planning committee video, there is mention of the possibility of shrinking 6 garages to 5. Considering the above, and such things as the gutting proposed by the aborted North Shore Service Coordination Plan, Allstate selling its campus, Northbrook Court being mostly vacant, and not much reverse feeder action, you can guess which one was meant.

 

First and foremost, welcome back.

(and the only argument against closing that shop is its the newer garage out of the bunch, but if DuPage doing TNCs and North Shore Restructuring still in progress - I don't think its dead)

[Busjack]

As noted in the quoted email, "It is also possible for part or all of the outstanding proposed North Shore changes to be reevaluated during this process. The A-5 initiative is currently anticipated to start sometime in 2022..." However, Driving Innovation is the current policy, adopted by the Board at the Sept. 2021 meeting. A-5 is Network Revitalization & Service Restructuring.

 

It is sort of like when Vision 2020 came out 20 years ago, we couldn't say definite;ly that we would now have Pulse and Call and Ride for the last mile, but we definitely had that by 2020. Similarly, we can't say now that Routes 210 and 422 are going to be cut, but we know that is going to be reevaluated in A-5, along with the rest of the system. And to get to what provoked the post:

On 1/15/2022 at 12:39 PM, MetroShadow said:

The demand out of all of the feeder garages (MV, First, North Shore, River) really doesn't call for all of those vehicles. Right-sizing Local routes in low-density areas that still don't require 40' buses would mean only a third of the buses are needed.

If the feeders aren't coming back, maybe there isn't a need to replace that many buses. 

the A-5 restructuring, the mothballing of the feeder buses, and the statement that Pace is not buying any more diesel buses lead to the logical conclusion that 67 30 foot buses is probably all Pace is going to order, even though it had 223 of the last batch.

[rotjohns]

21 hours ago, Busjack said:

As noted in the quoted email, "It is also possible for part or all of the outstanding proposed North Shore changes to be reevaluated during this process. The A-5 initiative is currently anticipated to start sometime in 2022..." However, Driving Innovation is the current policy, adopted by the Board at the Sept. 2021 meeting. A-5 is Network Revitalization & Service Restructuring.

 

It is sort of like when Vision 2020 came out 20 years ago, we couldn't say definite;ly that we would now have Pulse and Call and Ride for the last mile, but we definitely had that by 2020. Similarly, we can't say now that Routes 210 and 422 are going to be cut, but we know that is going to be reevaluated in A-5, along with the rest of the system. And to get to what provoked the post:

the A-5 restructuring, the mothballing of the feeder buses, and the statement that Pace is not buying any more diesel buses lead to the logical conclusion that 67 30 foot buses is probably all Pace is going to order, even though it had 223 of the last batch.

67  new 30-footers makes sense, in reality, if a 30 footer retires (and as we now see, it isn't just the early 2600s at this point), Pace can just replace it at any location with a better running 2600.  I can visibly tell you that the Heritage ones are rusting pretty good, but it was pointed out a long while ago the next batch of 20300s was supposed to go to MV-Batavia (which I honestly never understood anyway), then River, then Heritage.  But obviously FV still has 2600s to replace although not as many as even 3 months ago.  

[Busjack]

Only thing Melissa Metzger said at the board meeting relevant to this is that Pace had a meeting with the Lake Cook TMA and discussed having vehicles at the station when people return to the office (YouTube reference). Sure doesn't sound like 7 buses, though.

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

O think you misunderstood the context.  During the Pace Planning z committee meeting the idea was floated about operating out of 5 garages instead of 6 ( S, SW, W, Nzw, NS, and N).  Assuming Wheeling replaces NW, that means one of the other garages would have to close if Pace decides to go that route.  N will be an electric fleet garage.  S is a CNG garage.  W is a very heavy garage, so that only leaves NS and SW.  THE odds on favorite to close between the two would be NS. though I floated a scenario where SW could be closed.  But in all likelihood nothing closes because closing either one poses certain operational challenges.

 

 

5 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Hmm I don't know too much about NS but I feel SW has a few heavy hitters that I doubt anothr garage could handle. Like the 380's. 

Art basically stated the issue, which belongs here. While I'm  not going to go through all the planning committee videos, it was also mentioned somewhere that SW would be expanded for I-294 service, assuming that the Toll Highway Authority rebuilds the Central Tri-State from 95th to Balmoral to the same standards as I-90. 895 used to run from SW. Also 95th St. Pulse.

The issues involving NS have been discussed in scattered places around here, including the cuts proposed in the last, unimplemented  Coordination Plan, Northbrook Court and Deerbrook Mall losing most of their businesses, and the mention in Wednesday's Board meeting about the meeting with the TMA, where they said that if and when people go back to the office, the TMA wants vehicles at the station,  which doesn't seem to mean 30' and 40' buses. Also, with Allstate selling its campus, there doesn't seem to be any immediate reason to bring back 619, 620, and 623. Maybe a few years down the road when, as expected, the purchaser develops a logistics center, but not before. Main traffic out of NS consists of 213, 215, 626 (still running, even though it is an office route), and school trips to Loyola Academy and New Trier Northfield.

FYI, I"m attaching a copy of my correspondence, with identifying information redacted.

Re Driving Innovation - Driving Innovation (Driving.Innovation@pacebus.com) - 2021-07-28 0818.html

[Busjack]

Some references in the Jan. planning meeting to points made above:

Vehicles, i.e. vans, at the Lake-Cook station

5 or 6 buildings

Note that just because staff or the Interim Executive Director said something before a committee about future studies doesn't mean the Board approved anything.

 

 

[renardo870]

Looks like some post Covid-19 suspended service might resume in the near future.

FOR WEB Agenda Planning Committee - March 2022 (Final).pdf

[Busjack]

12 hours ago, renardo870 said:

Looks like some post Covid-19 suspended service might resume in the near future.

FOR WEB Agenda Planning Committee - March 2022 (Final).pdf 185.46 kB · 15 downloads

Those 4 agenda items have been on the agendas for months. Doesn't mean that (for instance) Route 327 is coming back in two weeks; more likely like the discussion on how phasing out COVID service reductions  has to be under the Driving Innovation framework or the TMA wants vans instead of buses.

[artthouwill]

3 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Those 4 agenda items have been on the agenda for months. Doesn't mean that (for instance) Route 327 is coming back in two weeks; more likely like the discussion on how phasing out COVID service reductions  has to be under the Driving Innovation framework or the TMA wants vans instead of buses.

Funny you mentioned the 327 in that the signs along that route are not taped over.  The same goes for 877 and 888 along those routes. 

It will be interesting to see when,  where,  and how service gets reinstated.

[Busjack]

Only things on the meeting video, aside from statistics and rebound on school trips, are that the Naperville-Aurora On Demand zone will be expanded to the Naperville Metra, with 2 vehicles, and the Lake-Cook TMA doesn't really know what it wants to do (vanpool, 1 Pace bus, or 1 motor coach),

[Busjack]

Melinda Metzger mentioned at the board meeting that a TNC project would be presented in a couple of months for a TNC project in North Cook/South Lake area,followed with a discussion of the inefficiencies of feeder buses and how TNCs might work better.

[Busjack]

The Board meeting video included a discussion of VanGo, which appears to be a souped-up employment shuttle service. The reference to Lake County and later to Lake-Cook Road appear to me that the Shuttle Bug transit buses are not coming back.

 

NOTE: The Call and Ride topic has been renamed to On Demand and VanGo, so discuss it there.