X4 Cottage Grove Express

[Tcmetro]

CTA is planning a new route, X4 Cottage Grove Express. It's on the Committee on Strategic Planning & Service Delivery agenda for this week.

https://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/21/June2022_-_SP_Committee_Agenda.pdf?32499

[artthouwill]

54 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

CTA is planning a new route, X4 Cottage Grove Express. It's on the Committee on Strategic Planning & Service Delivery agenda for this week.

https://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/21/June2022_-_SP_Committee_Agenda.pdf?32499

Somebody at CTA really likes this route.  I believe thos would be the third time this route would be in action.  I

I have always believed the X4's existence is detrimental to the Green Line  as was the X3.  Will the X4 be the exact same as before now that the 4 has been extended to 115th?  Perhaps @strictureswill get his wish to have an X4 stop at 58th Street instead of or in addition to 59th Street. 

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I have always believed the X4's existence is detrimental to the Green Line  as was the X3.

Except for at 63rd, it isn't, as it is about 3/4 mile away between 63rd and 55th, and there isn't parallel service south of 63rd.

I assume the local will be cut back, as it has on other X routes.

[artthouwill]

7 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Except for at 63rd, it isn't, as it is about 3/4 mile away between 63rd and 55th, and there isn't parallel service south of 63rd.

I assume the local will be cut back, as it has on other X routes.

Cutting back local 4 would have to be in the peak direction,  assuming the zx4 will be peak direction only.  I suppose one benefit could be increased ridership on the 1 Bronzeville/Union.

Most of the territory between 63rd and 55tg is University of Chicago.   North if there p, more people will opt for the X4 rather than take an east west route and transfer to a Green Line or even a Red Line train.  Only passengers traveling North or West of downtown or connecting to another rail line may opt to rude an east west route first.  I'm sure the X4 will have a better frequency than the Cottage Grove branch of the Green line  

[Anthony Devera]

I wonder what the routing for the X4 north of Pershing will be like. Will it be like the old X4 running via King Drive, or will it take DuSable/Lake Shore north of Pershing/Oakwood? I think if it runs via the Drive, then the 1 should be extended to Cottage/Pershing.

[artthouwill]

50 minutes ago, Anthony Devera said:

I wonder what the routing for the X4 north of Pershing will be like. Will it be like the old X4 running via King Drive, or will it take DuSable/Lake Shore north of Pershing/Oakwood? I think if it runs via the Drive, then the 1 should be extended to Cottage/Pershing.

I would think the X4 would be the same as before. But even if it were rerouted to Lake Shore Drive at Pershing,  there's no need to extend the 1 when there's still the 4 local   

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Cutting back local 4 would have to be in the peak direction,  assuming the zx4 will be peak direction only.  I suppose one benefit could be increased ridership on the 1 Bronzeville/Union.

Most of the territory between 63rd and 55tg is University of Chicago.   North if there p, more people will opt for the X4 rather than take an east west route and transfer to a Green Line or even a Red Line train.  Only passengers traveling North or West of downtown or connecting to another rail line may opt to rude an east west route first.  I'm sure the X4 will have a better frequency than the Cottage Grove branch of the Green line  

The only people who are going to go to the green line are west side riders, otherwise they’ll go to the red. That said, I agree with busjack in that the X4 isn’t really going to harm green line ridership. In my experience, there isn’t really a lot of transfer btwn the 3/4 & the green line, at least going NB, so anyone taking the X4 is probably someone who would already just take the 4. The X3 I’d be slightly more concerned about, but I still wouldn’t think it all that serious

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, Anthony Devera said:

I wonder what the routing for the X4 north of Pershing will be like. Will it be like the old X4 running via King Drive, or will it take DuSable/Lake Shore north of Pershing/Oakwood? I think if it runs via the Drive, then the 1 should be extended to Cottage/Pershing.

 

49 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I would think the X4 would be the same as before. But even if it were rerouted to Lake Shore Drive at Pershing,  there's no need to extend the 1 when there's still the 4 local   

The only real routing change to consider is whether or not the X4 will end at 94th, CSU and/or 115th. Getting on LSD at 39th only to get back off at 11th is probably time neutral at rush hour and also skips important destinations like Lake Meadows, IIT (to an extent), McCormick app & Mercy Hospital. 

[artthouwill]

8 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 

The only real routing change to consider is whether or not the X4 will end at 94th, CSU and/or 115th. Getting on LSD at 39th only to get back off at 11th is probably time neutral at rush hour and also skips important destinations like Lake Meadows, IIT (to an extent), McCormick app & Mercy Hospital. 

Considering that the 115 provides service between 95th and 115th,  i wouldn't expect the X4 to run from 115th.  To me, it's similar to the X9 not going to Beverly/103rd.  Not even all local 4s go to 115th.  

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

when it gets approved wednesday when is this route gonna be in effect?

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Most of the territory between 63rd and 55tg is University of Chicago. 

I mistyped. I meant 35th.

[Tcmetro]

22 minutes ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

when it gets approved wednesday when is this route gonna be in effect?

I would imagine the details will come out during the meeting and a press release to be sent out on the same day.

[strictures]

56 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The only people who are going to go to the green line are west side riders, otherwise they’ll go to the red.

No, I take the Green Line to Clinton & then walk a block to Ogilvie to catch a train.

And yes, I want the new X4 to stop at 58th, where all the people are, instead of 59th, where no one is!  All of the UChicago Medicine clinics & hospitals are at 58th!

[artthouwill]

9 minutes ago, strictures said:

No, I take the Green Line to Clinton & then walk a block to Ogilvie to catch a train.

And yes, I want the new X4 to stop at 58th, where all the people are, instead of 59th, where no one is!  All of the UChicago Medicine clinics & hospitals are at 58th!

You might want to go to that meeting and bring that up.

[NewFlyerMCI]

12 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Considering that the 115 provides service between 95th and 115th,  i wouldn't expect the X4 to run from 115th.  To me, it's similar to the X9 not going to Beverly/103rd.  Not even all local 4s go to 115th.  

I agree, although I want to note the majority of 4 service goes to 115th, like 65/35 or maybe even 70/30.

Regardless, I’m excited to have the route back. The X4 was such a great way of getting downtown and taking MLK instead of MI/IN was mind-blowing to me as a kid. It probably won’t, but I hope it comes back as all-day, all-week service and not just peak hours.

[YoungBusLover]

13 hours ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

when it gets approved wednesday when is this route gonna be in effect?

Fall pick I'd assume because the summer pick is relatively short.

[Busjack]

13 hours ago, strictures said:

No, I take the Green Line to Clinton & then walk a block to Ogilvie to catch a train.

Clinton is west side, at least compared to Monroe and State.

59 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

Fall pick I'd assume because the summer pick is relatively short.

CTA already posted the 4 advance schedule, so unless they are going to take it down (which could happen)...

14 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 

...Getting on LSD at 39th only to get back off at 11th is probably time neutral at rush hour and also skips important destinations like Lake Meadows, IIT (to an extent), McCormick app & Mercy Hospital. 

As implied by the first point, there at least used to be a traffic jam at Soldier Field. Maybe tolerable if the bus gets on at 47th  (routes 2 and 6)  or 67th (J14), but not otherwise,

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I agree, although I want to note the majority of 4 service goes to 115th, like 65/35 or maybe even 70/30.

Regardless, I’m excited to have the route back. The X4 was such a great way of getting downtown and taking MLK instead of MI/IN was mind-blowing to me as a kid. It probably won’t, but I hope it comes back as all-day, all-week service and not just peak hours.

King Drive was part of the4 until about 1997.  The 1 was reduced to rush hour service.   To compensate, the 4 was rerouted to Michigan/Indiana during off peak times, but kept the original King Drive routing during rush hours.  Then in 2003, as part of (or in addition to) the Lake Shore restructuring,  the X4 was added, taking the King Drive routing,  and all local 4s ran Michigan/Indiana at all times. 

[Tcmetro]

I was able to pull the slides from the meeting on YouTube. The route will be peak only, both directions, from 95th to South Water following Michigan/Indiana. No reduction in local service.

[BusHunter]

Looks interesting. Might be a good alternate to the red line if you are east of it or south

[Busjack]

Map implies 94th terminal instead of CSU. Update: but not clear, as 4 doesn't show CSU on the map, just 115th.

[YoungBusLover]

8 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

I was able to pull the slides from the meeting on YouTube. The route will be peak only, both directions, from 95th to South Water following Michigan/Indiana. No reduction in local service.

You're a life saver I am currently watching the board meeting trying to get more insight on this.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Tcmetro said:

I was able to pull the slides from the meeting on YouTube. The route will be peak only, both directions, from 95th to South Water following Michigan/Indiana. No reduction in local service.

The two surprises to me:.

1. Bidirectional peak service 

2. The route doesn't follow King Drive north of 35th, as in previous iterations.  I figured the 1 supplementinf the 4 along Michigan/Indiana was good enough. 

Though this doesn't take effect until August, it's interesting that CTA is making a service expansion during a time of staffing shortages. Neither does the route extend to Michigan/Chicago.   

U didn't expect the X4 to go to 115th, but if there's no reduction in local 4 service,  it might make sense for the X4 to use the Burnside turnaround instead of crowding the Chicago State turnaround.   However it's not clear which one the X4 will actually use.

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

The two surprises to me:.

1. Bidirectional peak service 

2. The route doesn't follow King Drive north of 35th, as in previous iterations.  I figured the 1 supplementinf the 4 along Michigan/Indiana was good enough. 

Though this doesn't take effect until August, it's interesting that CTA is making a service expansion during a time of staffing shortages. Neither does the route extend to Michigan/Chicago.   

U didn't expect the X4 to go to 115th, but if there's no reduction in local 4 service,  it might make sense for the X4 to use the Burnside turnaround instead of crowding the Chicago State turnaround.   However it's not clear which one the X4 will actually use.

Bidirectional doesn’t surprise me, and neither does peak only, but it’s definitely disappointing. EDIT: unless the surprise for you was less service than you were anticipating
 

The emphasis on shorter trips less than 2 miles + august start leads me to believe CSU would be the turnaround over 94th, but time will tell for that one. Ending at Illinois Center is also not surprising, the Mag Mile needs bus lanes, not more buses and service is robust enough that transferring shouldn’t be an issue.

I see no need for the 1 to continue running if the X4 is going to take MI/IN. During peak, it shouldn’t be that long of a wait for 7/126/151 for people who need to get along Adams/Jackson. Maybe it will get cut and that’s where they’ll pull some extra drivers and buses from?

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

 

2. The route doesn't follow King Drive north of 35th, as in previous iterations.  I figured the 1 supplementinf the 4 along Michigan/Indiana was good enough. 

Neither does the route extend to Michigan/Chicago.  

It's clear from the map that all CTA is doing is overlaying X4 on the current 4. It does not care about historic routes, and 4 never went to Chicago Ave., as do 3 and 26.

12 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I see no need for the 1 to continue running if the X4 is going to take MI/IN. During peak, it shouldn’t be that long of a wait for 7/126/151 for people who need to get along Adams/Jackson. Maybe it will get cut and that’s where they’ll pull some extra drivers and buses from?

IIT must have had some demand for 1. 1 gets 548 boardings a day.