More Bus Moves

[sw4400]

Oh, the pleasures of riding/driving public transportation. So let me get this straight, you would rather have a senior stand and have a baby stroller take his/her spot with someone most likely half to 1/4 there age. Remember priority seating is reserved for seniors and people with disabilities. Really what would have been nice would've been for a younger person to give there seat to the senior. In fact some drivers will request this is done before they proceed. That's good policy, wouldn't want any falls on board.

Actually, BusHunter, I tried to secure this rude lady a seat across where a 10-12 yr. old was sitting. Suppose the bus stopped to pick up someone in a wheelchair? The stroller was blocking 3/4ths of the aisle plus was on the ramp. The back was crammed with standees, and unfortunately, the NOVA LFS doesn't have as many spaces for Wheelchairs/Strollers as a New Flyer does.

Also, if you accidently hit a stroller as you're boarding, wouldn't you say "Excuse me." or "Sorry."? Not berate the Father of the baby for being forced to sit with his baby there. You can't stand with an infant in your arms on a moving bus, and I wouldn't allow it if I were the Bus Operator... suppose the driver got into an accident or had to slam on the brakes? That Father could've ended up falling to the floor onto his Son/Daughter, possibly critically injuring him/her. Believe me, Bushunter... this Senior was moving like a 30 yr. old would when she boarded and left the bus. Good walking pace, no limps, no cane, nothing.

[Busjack]

It seems like, from the CTA Tattler and police reports, that the CTA has been taken over by boorish passengers and criminals (much worse than the days of the deaf pen vendors). Then we have the competing rights of people with strollers (someone on the Tattler posted that they should be banned) vs. the elderly (which all of us conceivably will become).

At least the worst I have seen on Metra is that on kids ride free on weekends, the children are running around the upper deck, and then look at you funny when you take a seat that turns out to be across from daddy. No one says anything, though.

[BusHunter]

Actually, BusHunter, I tried to secure this rude lady a seat across where a 10-12 yr. old was sitting. Suppose the bus stopped to pick up someone in a wheelchair? The stroller was blocking 3/4ths of the aisle plus was on the ramp. The back was crammed with standees, and unfortunately, the NOVA LFS doesn't have as many spaces for Wheelchairs/Strollers as a New Flyer does.

Also, if you accidently hit a stroller as you're boarding, wouldn't you say "Excuse me." or "Sorry."? Not berate the Father of the baby for being forced to sit with his baby there. You can't stand with an infant in your arms on a moving bus, and I wouldn't allow it if I were the Bus Operator... suppose the driver got into an accident or had to slam on the brakes? That Father could've ended up falling to the floor onto his Son/Daughter, possibly critically injuring him/her. Believe me, Bushunter... this Senior was moving like a 30 yr. old would when she boarded and left the bus. Good walking pace, no limps, no cane, nothing.

Sounds like the woman had an SUV stroller. Normally it's the operators discretion to allow the stroller on board either in a folded or unfolded condition. Being that it took up 3/4 of the aisle, sounds like it should have been folded. How did the operator expect persons to board there bus? The father could have easily boarded sat down (maybe with verbal assistance from the operator) and it would've been a less hectic commute. Actually I don't get your point that the Flyers are wider in the front with the smaller doors. A flyer sounds like an even bigger nightmare in that situation. One benefit though, at least the customers would have a faster bus. Those #6500's are painfully slow. :rolleyes:

[sw4400]

Actually I don't get your point that the Flyers are wider in the front with the smaller doors.

I meant there were more bench seats on the New Flyer buses that could've been lifted to accomodate the stroller(2 three bench-style seats up front plus 2 two-bench front facing bench style seats just past those) on #1000-1929 and I think an additional 1 or 2 more bench-style seats on #1930-2029. The NOVA LFS have the two three-bench style seats up front plus 1 two-bench front facing style seats on the driver's side of the bus. The passenger side doesn't lift up.

[Busjack]

Those #6500's are painfully slow.

That's all relative. I remember, in the much earlier days of the 6400s, that someone folded up a stroller and put in on the right wheel well. Then it was tossed back and forth within that railing. Of course, that's probably 8 years ago.

[sw4400]

Sounds like the woman had an SUV stroller.

It was along the lines of this one. But when your sitting behind the driver in those two seats with the stroller right next to you, almost all of the space in front by those wheelwells are taken up, with maybe 1/4th of space to wiggle on through. As I said there was little space to squeeze through as you board, and the right front wheel of that stroller was resting on the wheelchair ramp beyond the yellow line.

Baby_Stroller.bmp

[BusHunter]

That's all relative. I remember, in the much earlier days of the 6400s, that someone folded up a stroller and put in on the right wheel well. Then it was tossed back and forth within that railing. Of course, that's probably 8 years ago.

That brings up a question I thought of about the legality of strollers on the bus. When a free rolling wheelchair (not motorized) boards the bus, the wheelchair must lock into place in the accessible space so it doesn't roll around. Pace even goes as far as to tie the chair down with straps and a winching tool to gather up the slack. So when a stroller boards why doesn't it get secured or tied down? Are there better laws/protection for the disabled versus a stroller? In case of an accident wouldn't a stroller become a safety hazard being able to fly in the direction of any inertia placed on it? Also, in case of an emergency evacuation like a fire wouldn't this endanger the other passengers, blocking an evacuation route, as well as the baby itself. Maybe there just has not been an accident yet or lawsuit to bring this fact to light or other agencies may not be allowing strollers on the bus? I don't know but it makes for interesting conversation.

[BusHunter]

It was along the lines of this one. But when your sitting behind the driver in those two seats with the stroller right next to you, almost all of the space in front by those wheelwells are taken up, with maybe 1/4th of space to wiggle on through. As I said there was little space to squeeze through as you board, and the right front wheel of that stroller was resting on the wheelchair ramp beyond the yellow line.

Once there was a situation on the #81, a few years ago. At Kimball, a busy stop, a Nova had a pretty full standing load with two strollers blocking the aisles in front of the accessible area. A bunch of people boarded the bus and there was this one lady holding the hand rail, the vertical one, right by where the old go lane pad used to be. Either a handicapped person wanted off or on (I forget) and the operator brought the handicapped ramp up on the bus. The next thing we hear is this woman screaming at the front of the bus. The ramp appears to have pinched her arm/body against the pole. Of course the ramp was then retracted. I don't know if the woman was screaming of fear of being crushed or she really got hurt. But she did walk away from the scene. But I still can hear her loud piercing scream now thinking about it. Another wild and crazy day on the CTA. :rolleyes:

[Busjack]

Maybe there just has not been an accident yet or lawsuit to bring this fact to light or other agencies may not be allowing strollers on the bus? I don't know but it makes for interesting conversation.

Well. there was the accident where the door of the L car closed on a stroller and flung the stroller with child off the platform, and CTA pretty much admitted blame for that. Of course, there was a lawsuit.

One has to wonder, with all the laws that a child in a car has to be restrained in a car seat or booster seat until one is 4*8" (or something like that) there aren't restrictions on buses. Of course, since the laws apparently can't be enforced on the CTA, I guess it is just left to the Personal Injury lawyers.

[trainman8119]

The problem here is the stroller. There should be nothing ever blocking any part of an aisle (and I'll take that as far as standees, but that is another subject for another day).IT IS A SAFETY ISSUE !!!!! If one is insistant on bringing on a stroller, it should be folded, period. People with these things think they have the right to take over an area. I long for the days when people with kids were considerate enough to fold the damn things and have the kids in their laps....I guess that would be too much of an "inconvienence". These people are far worse than the bike riders who wont ride their bikes.

[Railwaymodeler]

How about the "very special people" with strollers that feel "entitled" to have any seat they wish?

Twice now on Pace, and once on Metra, I have had run-ins with these people.

On Metra, some yuppie couple getting on board a morning inbound rush hour train at Wilmette, came on board with a stroller. I was sitting in the priority seating area, and yes, I am disabled. I have bad arthritis in the left knee, and degenerative disc disorder in my lower back. I cannot stand long on moving trains unless well-braced against something.

Well, I was half asleep, and this couple decided to wake me up by RAMMING the stroller into my bad knee, and then having the nerve to demand my seat.

Needless to say, I was not happy with them, and shouted out for someone to get the conductor; we have a problem here.

Conductor came, and told them that a stroller was not a reason to demand seating. I also informed the conductor that I have a knee and back problem. Plus I wanted the two to settle down, or I would ask them off the train for assaulting a passenger. Needless to say, the yuppies gave me this evil stare the rest of the trip to Chicago.

On Pace, onetime a woman who looked like she could take up two seats by herself, pulled similar, demanding a seat for herself, and not one, not two, but three MORE priority seats. Problem was, she only had one baby, and the rest was groceries!

On a particularly crowded 565 bus, it was standing room only, usual for evening inbound runs, and some guy had the idea that a stroller, with a baby in it, was able to double as a cowcatcher to plow through the standees.

I will say this though, on the Pace 2400 series NABIs, there is a spot between the priority seating on the right side of the bus, and the rear door, that is perfect for storing a folded up stroller. Something the 35 footers have, and 40 footers don't.

[sw4400]

How about the "very special people" with strollers that feel "entitled" to have any seat they wish?

Twice now on Pace, and once on Metra, I have had run-ins with these people.

On Metra, some yuppie couple getting on board a morning inbound rush hour train at Wilmette, came on board with a stroller. I was sitting in the priority seating area, and yes, I am disabled. I have bad arthritis in the left knee, and degenerative disc disorder in my lower back. I cannot stand long on moving trains unless well-braced against something.

Well, I was half asleep, and this couple decided to wake me up by RAMMING the stroller into my bad knee, and then having the nerve to demand my seat.

Needless to say, I was not happy with them, and shouted out for someone to get the conductor; we have a problem here.

Conductor came, and told them that a stroller was not a reason to demand seating. I also informed the conductor that I have a knee and back problem. Plus I wanted the two to settle down, or I would ask them off the train for assaulting a passenger. Needless to say, the yuppies gave me this evil stare the rest of the trip to Chicago.

On Pace, onetime a woman who looked like she could take up two seats by herself, pulled similar, demanding a seat for herself, and not one, not two, but three MORE priority seats. Problem was, she only had one baby, and the rest was groceries!

On a particularly crowded 565 bus, it was standing room only, usual for evening inbound runs, and some guy had the idea that a stroller, with a baby in it, was able to double as a cowcatcher to plow through the standees.

I will say this though, on the Pace 2400 series NABIs, there is a spot between the priority seating on the right side of the bus, and the rear door, that is perfect for storing a folded up stroller. Something the 35 footers have, and 40 footers don't.

Not sticking up for the people with strollers here, but what about those Seniors who think all is for them? I had an incident I think I wrote about in a thread sometime back about a trip where a 70-ish yr. old boarded, but instead of asking politely for the man to move from his seat, I think he actually put his hands on him to pull him out of the seat. Another lady offered her seat, to which he said to her "Mind your business.... you'll live longer!!!" I am sorry about the stroller-pusher who hit your bad knee because they wanted your seat, they had absolutely no right to do that, nor did the Senior on the CTA bus in the previously mentioned story. Whether you're with a stroller, or a Senior Citizen... show some courtesy. Say "Excuse me, may I please sit there?" Not "Get out of that seat!!! That seat is for me!!!" and proceed to pull the occupant out.

To the story above where the Senior Citizen hit the stroller with her cart and woke up the sleeping infant, how about "I'm sorry." or "Excuse me."? Was it wrong he had the stroller there? Yes... but those in the bench seats wouldn't move so he could put the stroller off to the side, and holding a infant as young as he/she was while standing... not a good idea. Just dropping that baby from a hard braking could be fatal, especially if he/she lands on that soft spot on the skull.

[Busjack]

... Just dropping that baby from a hard braking could be fatal, especially if he/she lands on that soft spot on the skull.

Of course, I previously mentioned what hard braking on a Nova did to a folded stroller. Now imagine if the baby was in it.

You are just pushing the "competing rights" argument, and with boorish passengers on both sides, isn't going to get anywhere.

And, in the instance you mentioned, mommy or daddy isn't going to take any responsibility, but run directly to the Clifford Law Offices, or the Johnny Cochran Law Firm.

[ChicagoNova]

NF #4105 must've transferred from 103rd to North Park. I saw it earlier this evening on the #151 Sheridan.

[BusHunter]

Looks like Fg got a couple more Flyers. #1269 was on the #56 on saturday.

[Sam92]

#4057 is backat 103rd. It's working on the 14 Jeffery Express

[cta5658]

#1035 made the move to 103rd as it's operating on the #29

[Sam92]

And south side loses two more artics. 4104 is out on the 145 Wilson/Michigan Express

[cta5658]

#1036 and #1037 made the move from chicago ave to 103

[BusHunter]

Looks like Fg got a couple more Flyers. #1269 was on the #56 on saturday.

#1254 was on the #80 this morning. Another one from 77th.

[jajuan]

So the fall pick has resulted in some shuffling. From the sightings it appears 103rd loses a few more artics to North Park, which is already overcrowded with artics since I don't see any other routes that need anymore artics than what's already operated with artics up there and 77th is creeping slightly ever more Nova populated with the ratio of longitudinal seated 1000s to those with the earlier arrangements going even higher still.

[RJL6000]

So the fall pick has resulted in some shuffling. From the sightings it appears 103rd loses a few more artics to North Park, which is already overcrowded with artics since I don't see any other routes that need anymore artics than what's already operated with artics up there and 77th is creeping slightly ever more Nova populated with the ratio of longitudinal seated 1000s to those with the earlier arrangements going even higher still.

103rd did gain at least one artic back from Kedzie. However, 103rd now operates only two routes worthy of any artics whatsoever (the #6 and the #14). All of the rush-hour-only express routes operated out of 103rd are now run entirely with regular 40-foot buses.

At any rate, I do hope that North Park gives up a few of its artics to 77th: North Park now has way too many of them. Plus, 77th does operate a few routes that could use some artics (especially the #3, #4 and #79).

To mikeymc77 who wondered where Nova #6663 went: My updated list was/is correct. 6663 is a 77th bus - the only break in the 6596-6691 block based at 74th (with the exception of the wrecked 6610). It was on the #79 this afternoon.

[Sam92]

103rd did gain at least one artic back from Kedzie. However, 103rd now operates only two routes worthy of any artics whatsoever (the #6 and the #14). All of the rush-hour-only express routes operated out of 103rd are now run entirely with regular 40-foot buses.

At any rate, I do hope that North Park gives up a few of its artics to 77th: North Park now has way too many of them. Plus, 77th does operate a few routes that could use some artics (especially the #3, #4 and #79).

To mikeymc77 who wondered where Nova #6663 went: My updated list was/is correct. 6663 is a 77th bus - the only break in the 6596-6691 block based at 74th (with the exception of the wrecked 6610). It was on the #79 this afternoon.

Don't forget, 103rd also operates the 169 and 192 which also are run entirely with artics (meaning there are barely enough for the 6 and 14 at times in the rush). Also 103rd has a few routes that can use them at times such as the 34 and 119 and other routes that serve the Dan Ryan Red Line station. North Park should give about 20 artics to 77th and 10 back to 103rd to help with the crowds on the south side

[sw4400]

This video was made several years ago, but it definately captures all the transit in and around Chicago, as well as some vintage buses. If there were a top ten for Transit Videos, I think this would make the cut...

[busfan2847]

Don't forget, 103rd also operates the 169 and 192 which also are run entirely with artics (meaning there are barely enough for the 6 and 14 at times in the rush). Also 103rd has a few routes that can use them at times such as the 34 and 119 and other routes that serve the Dan Ryan Red Line station. North Park should give about 20 artics to 77th and 10 back to 103rd to help with the crowds on the south side

The 192 uses buses that come into downtown in the rush hour on the 14 that would return to 103rd empty in the morning and the opposite in the afternoon. It makes no change to the number of artics needed at 103rd.