More Bus Moves

[wordguy]

I don't know, the transferring seems balanced to me #6412- #6425 minus #6420 for #1109-#1100, #1089, #1088. 14 novas for 12 NF's. If anything I'm looking for #1110 and #1111 to be at 77th.

#1112 showed up on BusTracker this morning filling a 77th run. I believe there was a 15 for 15 trade between 77th and 74th. (1088-1089 & 1100-1112) for (6412-6419 & 6421-6427). FG seems to have given up its last six NFs (1083-1087 & 1090) in exchange for (6471-6476). Incidentally, 1090 was still assigned to FG until yesterday. It operated on Lawrence until late evening --- the last NF to say goodbye to The Glen.

If my tally is right, there are 39 1100s left at 74th (1113-1151) and 42 6400s at 77th (6428-6449 & 6451-6470): Almost a wash.

Just wondering if the rest of the 6400s actually will be transferred to 74th. Or will Chicago Ave. enter into the mix?

[garmon757]

#1112 showed up on BusTracker this morning filling a 77th run. I believe there was a 15 for 15 trade between 77th and 74th. (1088-1089 & 1100-1112) for (6412-6419 & 6421-6427). FG seems to have given up its last six NFs (1083-1087 & 1090) in exchange for (6471-6476). Incidentally, 1090 was still assigned to FG until yesterday. It operated on Lawrence until late evening --- the last NF to say goodbye to The Glen.

If my tally is right, there are 39 1100s left at 74th (1113-1151) and 42 6400s at 77th (6428-6449 & 6451-6470): Almost a wash.

Just wondering if the rest of the 6400s actually will be transferred to 74th. Or will Chicago Ave. enter into the mix?

My theory about Chicago is they would have to sacrifice either 1040-1082 or even 1900s and/or some 1981-2029 in exchange for the rest of the Novas. Here's the problem though; if 77th gets the rest of the 1100s from 74th to make it 1100-1162 then it's going to be a gap that can interfere with Kedzie's 1100s (1163-1188) that might result of 77th, Kedzie, AND Chicago initiating swaps because 77th's other set of 1100s starts at 1189. Also that can lead to 77th losing some of its Allisons.

[wordguy]

I would hold off on predicting whether anything leaves 74th beyond the 1100s, IF all of them are set to go. At the present rate of things, after the Novas are gone from 77th, it should be about time for the 7900s to start deliveries. The timetable for delivery start is late April to early May. Plus we still have to get through whatever changes hands among the garages for the changeover into spring pick. So things are already complicated enough on the bus swapping front. I think if Chicago were going to lose current Novas, things would have already started moving to initiate that change. One other thing, we can't be sure that 74th gave up about 13 NFs for 30 more Novas due to the gaps in sightings on both sides. That's just too big a differential in what was swapped between those two. I can agree in a way with what you were saying about FG. Just as you find it had to believe that FG is being set up to replace 241-260 buses with completely new ones, I find it hard to believe that they would be setting up 74th to get close 200 if the 1100s all get traded off. Plus if they want to keep 74th out of a position of running older model Novas 24 hours (collectively and not individually of course) a day like FG now does, they'll have to leave some NFs there. Not only that they'd need to keep enough there that those 24 hour routes can have some NFs in place from the day and evening hours to cover the owl periods.

Even assuming that 74th gets the rest of 77th's 6400s --- which is still an unknown --- there wouldn't be enough of them to start displacing 1500s. I can't imagine that they'll be going anywhere. I think you're right about Chicago Ave., Jajuan; my hunch is that they may even get some of the 6400s from 77th in exchange for 1000s. (Garmon, your timing is perfect. Your post came across just as I finished my thought about a 77th and Chicago Avenue swap. But I don't think Kedzie will be in the mix. Creating solid numerical blocks of NFs doesn't seem to be a priority).

It does seem likely that the new Novas will be assigned to three garages --- 74th, FG, & Chicago --- instead of four. But if the 150-bus option kicks in, 77th could be back in the mix for the last ones.

In regard to FG, I believe that New Flyers will eventually return there, especially if the option is exercised. Like BusHunter, I couldn't envision one barn --- FG or any other --- with an all-new fleet.

[garmon757]

Even assuming that 74th gets the rest of 77th's 6400s --- which is still an unknown --- there wouldn't be enough of them to start displacing 1500s. I can't imagine that they'll be going anywhere. I think you're right about Chicago Ave., Jajuan; my hunch is that they may even get some of the 6400s from 77th in exchange for 1000s. (Garmon, your timing is perfect. Your post came across just as I finished my thought about a 77th and Chicago Avenue swap. But I don't think Kedzie will be in the mix. Creating solid numerical blocks of NFs doesn't seem to be a priority).

It does seem likely that the new Novas will be assigned to three garages --- 74th, FG, & Chicago --- instead of four. But if the 150-bus option kicks in, 77th could be back in the mix for the last ones.

In regard to FG, I believe that New Flyers will eventually return there, especially if the option is exercised. Like BusHunter, I couldn't envision one barn --- FG or any other --- with an all-new fleet.

I agree about the numerical blocks not a priority. Think about Kedzie, 74th, 77th, and Chicago for a moment. This can be a solid swap but somewhat challenging: 77th can get Kedzie's 1100s in exchange for Kedzie getting 77th's and Chicago's 1300s while Chicago and 74th gets the remaining Novas. Also, Chicago can be the wild card by getting a few Allisons if 77th goes over capacity (Let's say starting in the 1970s).

[sw4400]

And if CTA is obsessed with having one bus manufacturer per garage ...

They might be BusHunter... let me show you the garage data percentage of bus type as of this date(40' buses only, 60' are all New Flyer):

Chicago: 74% New Flyer, 26% Nova

Forest Glen: 100% Nova

Kedzie: 100% New Flyer

North Park: 100% New Flyer

74th: 54% Nova, 46% New Flyer

77th: 80% New Flyer, 20% Nova

103rd: 100% New Flyer

Pretty much all garages are consolidated to one bus manufacturer. Six of the seven garages have 75% or greater of one 40' bus model, which means consolidation has been/is going on throughout the system. There is enough New Flyers(1,030) and Novas(475-480) to spread the fleets a bit throughout the garages, but the CTA is choosing not to. Looking at the percentage data, the only likely candidates for #7900's when they start to arrive are Forest Glen and 74th. 77th is mostly New Flyer, Chicago is mostly New Flyer.

Forest Glen and 74th are the top candidates for the #7900's which will spread new equipment to the Northwest and South/Southwest sides of the city. Even spread of new equipment to both sides of Chicago.

[sw4400]

And why would that person have a lot of explaining? Things can and still do fail on a bus even if serviced properly. It's still a machine after all and one thing they teach you from any engineering or automotive standpoint is no machine is 100% foolproof. All you can do is get it as close to 100% as is physically possible. Your last comment in your post is pretty much saying a bus should never break down or have anything fail even though the buses get maintenance over their service lives.

What I mean is maybe the servicer flushed the fluids but didn't put enough of one in or didn't top it off(I've read stories of people getting oil changed at lube shops and driving away only to find out after a overheat/seize up that no oil was added back into the engine). If the servicer was in a hurry, they could've forgot to add or top off oil/coolant to the engine, and it was driven from the service bay to the ready line and put out and a short time later it started to overheat.

If a hose ruptured or the radiator started leaking, ok... that does happen. I know that coming from a mechanic's family. I'm just saying human error is possible if no hoses had any leaks or the radiator didn't start leaking.

[wordguy]

They might be BusHunter... let me show you the garage data percentage of bus type as of this date(40' buses only, 60' are all New Flyer):

Chicago: 74% New Flyer, 26% Nova

Forest Glen: 100% Nova

Kedzie: 100% New Flyer

North Park: 100% New Flyer

74th: 54% Nova, 46% New Flyer

77th: 80% New Flyer, 20% Nova

103rd: 100% New Flyer

Pretty much all garages are consolidated to one bus manufacturer. Six of the seven garages have 75% or greater of one 40' bus model, which means consolidation has been/is going on throughout the system. There is enough New Flyers(1,030) and Novas(475-480) to spread the fleets a bit throughout the garages, but the CTA is choosing not to. Looking at the percentage data, the only likely candidates for #7900's when they start to arrive are Forest Glen and 74th. 77th is mostly New Flyer, Chicago is mostly New Flyer.

Forest Glen and 74th are the top candidates for the #7900's which will spread new equipment to the Northwest and South/Southwest sides of the city. Even spread of new equipment to both sides of Chicago.

I dunno, guys. The one-manufacturer-per-garage model seems to me as impractical now as it was back in 2007 when it was attempted. It's harder to maintain a decent balance of newer buses versus older ones between barns. Ideally, the age range of equipment at each depot should be roughly in synch. Why have the oldest units, with all their aches and pains, working 24-7 at one garage, while new equipment sits idle at another? It also limits flexibilty when buses need to be reassigned.

I'm assuming that the situation at FG is temporary, and that New Flyers will eventually return there. I believe that Busjack has stated in recent posts, that buses are more heavily used at some garages than at others --- with FG being at the lighter end and 77th being one of the heaviest. The recent trades might be a way to regulate the rate of wear and tear on the fleet overall. If so, I guess it makes sense --- but only for the short term.

[BusHunter]

I think also Fg will get NF's back eventually, most likely from 77th or 103rd, but not until the rehabs are over. FG going all Nova stays in balance with 74th going all nova, even though that's theoretically impossible. I think keeping Chicago with Novas now just puts too many Novas on the north side, it needs a balance between north and south sides if there is any fairness to it. Doing this also and making two garages have the replaceable Novas gives an advantage to CTA. They can now replace the fleets together even/odd and bring both garages back to 2014 or close to it on average asap.

Also if they are going by loop coverage, the loop will gain from not having Novas at Chicago. Then basically all that will be Nova in the whole downtown area will be #62 and #56 and #62 could always go back to Kedzie full time. It's right there on the border between the two garages.

[sw4400]

I'm assuming that the situation at FG is temporary, and that New Flyers will eventually return there. I believe that Busjack has stated in recent posts, that buses are more heavily used at some garages than at others --- with FG being at the lighter end and 77th being one of the heaviest. The recent trades might be a way to regulate the rate of wear and tear on the fleet overall. If so, I guess it makes sense --- but only for the short term.

It is temporary, but I disagree on New Flyers returning. Why take them to begin with then? CTA is setting up some garages for the #7900's, and Forest Glen(Northwest Side routes) and 74th(South/Southwest Side routes) are looking more like the prime candidates for these buses. The Nova reassignment is just until they start to roll in late April into May. How they'll work the assignments I don't know(block of x-amount to one, block of x-amount to another, or even/odd splits).

I'm also going to disagree on light usage at FG with the following heavy-passenger total routes as facts(these are routes I've been on, there are others that are just as, if not more busy)...

• 56 Milwaukee-Heavily used route that runs into Downtown Chicago
• 77 Belmont(Owl)- Route that sees a lot of passengers, especially at the Kimball Blue Line
• 78 Montrose- This route gets busy at times and runs Lake Shore to Norridge
• 80 Irving Park- This route gets busy at times and runs Lake Shore to Norridge
• 86 Narragansett/Ridgeland- Serves Wright College. I've seen buses crammed heading up that way before.
• 90 Harlem- Another North/South route that sees a lot of passengers
• 152 Addison- Cubs... Lane Tech... this route is busy with a capital "B".

The more passenger-traffic on a route, the more buses required. The Novas will be getting a workout for sure on these routes.

[jajuan]

What I mean is maybe the servicer flushed the fluids but didn't put enough of one in or didn't top it off(I've read stories of people getting oil changed at lube shops and driving away only to find out after a overheat/seize up that no oil was added back into the engine). If the servicer was in a hurry, they could've forgot to add or top off oil/coolant to the engine, and it was driven from the service bay to the ready line and put out and a short time later it started to overheat.

If a hose ruptured or the radiator started leaking, ok... that does happen. I know that coming from a mechanic's family. I'm just saying human error is possible if no hoses had any leaks or the radiator didn't start leaking.

More like in other words, they look into whether all their in house checks and balances were being followed as well as whether the bus was going through it all its proper maintenance checks over time to begin with and also fix the problem currently at hand rather than flip the whole thing into a mission to pin whatever mechanical problem on one maintenance employee, when buses get serviced by whole maintenance crews and as I said before a bus is still a machine, one with thousands of parts on it and is bound to have some non-life threatening mechanical issue arise along the way at various points in the course of its service life especially as that bus ages and gets closer to the end of its standard service life. Long story short, they find out what happened, fix the mechanical issue and correct any personnel lapses, IF there were any and not digress into an overreaction as your initial response was.

[jajuan]

I don't know, the transferring seems balanced to me #6412- #6425 minus #6420 for #1109-#1100, #1089, #1088. 14 novas for 12 NF's. If anything I'm looking for #1110 and #1111 to be at 77th.

I was going by your totals for both models as of last weekend, which fortunately was still available immediatedly below the current update from garmon quoting your update from last week when he made a response to it, compared to the totals of both as of this weekend. Your listed totals on the NFs went from 137 to 121 (a difference of 16), but your Nova totals jumped from 116 to 148 (a difference of 32 and double what you count left from the NFs). So looks like you're double counting somewhere.

[sw4400]

More like in other words, they look into whether all their in house checks and balances were being followed as well as whether the bus was going through it all its proper maintenance checks over time to begin with and also fix the problem currently at hand rather than flip the whole thing into a mission to pin whatever mechanical problem on one maintenance employee, when buses get serviced by whole maintenance crews and as I said before a bus is still a machine, one with thousands of parts on it and is bound to have some non-life threatening mechanical issue arise along the way at various points in the course of its service life especially as that bus ages and gets closer to the end of its standard service life. Long story short, they find out what happened, fix the mechanical issue and correct any personnel lapses, IF there were any and not digress into an overreaction as your initial response was.

Exactly... when a bus gets serviced, a technician/mechanic has to detail what he/she did to that bus. So for example, let's say Tim was tasked to flush and top off oil and coolant in #6882. If he did so and a hose ruptured while on the road, it's not his fault... hoses do break over time. If he forgot to add something before putting the bus out, then he would be at fault because upon inspection in this scenario, the hoses are fine, but there is little or no oil/coolant in the engine. It was Tim's responsibility to top off oil/coolant before that bus leaves the service bay.

CTA Supervisors can look over the paperwork/computer files on #6882 as Tim has to log what he's done to the bus while in the service bay. Any errors on his part could result in disciplinary action, if it's deemed his fault by his Garage Supervisor. One thing someone servicing a bus and adding fluids after finishing that is to look for leaks before that bus leaves the service bay. It could still be his fault if he failed to do so and it was leaking as it left. That's something my Father did after servicing hoses on a bus or adding fluids.

A bus that's overheating is life-threatening mechanical issue for the engine as every minute that bus is running while running hot is every minute closer to that engine becoming a hunk of seized metal.

[jajuan]

I think also Fg will get NF's back eventually, most likely from 77th or 103rd, but not until the rehabs are over. FG going all Nova stays in balance with 74th going all nova, even though that's theoretically impossible. I think keeping Chicago with Novas now just puts too many Novas on the north side, it needs a balance between north and south sides if there is any fairness to it. Doing this also and making two garages have the replaceable Novas gives an advantage to CTA. They can now replace the fleets together even/odd and bring both garages back to 2014 or close to it on average asap.

Also if they are going by loop coverage, the loop will gain from not having Novas at Chicago. Then basically all that will be Nova in the whole downtown area will be #62 and #56 and #62 could always go back to Kedzie full time. It's right there on the border between the two garages.

It is temporary, but I disagree on New Flyers returning. Why take them to begin with then? CTA is setting up some garages for the #7900's, and Forest Glen(Northwest Side routes) and 74th(South/Southwest Side routes) are looking more like the prime candidates for these buses. The Nova reassignment is just until they start to roll in late April into May. How they'll work the assignments I don't know(block of x-amount to one, block of x-amount to another, or even/odd splits).

I'm also going to disagree on light usage at FG with the following heavy-passenger total routes as facts(these are routes I've been on, there are others that are just as, if not more busy)...

• 56 Milwaukee-Heavily used route that runs into Downtown Chicago
• 77 Belmont(Owl)- Route that sees a lot of passengers, especially at the Kimball Blue Line
• 78 Montrose- This route gets busy at times and runs Lake Shore to Norridge
• 80 Irving Park- This route gets busy at times and runs Lake Shore to Norridge
• 86 Narragansett/Ridgeland- Serves Wright College. I've seen buses crammed heading up that way before.
• 90 Harlem- Another North/South route that sees a lot of passengers
• 152 Addison- Cubs... Lane Tech... this route is busy with a capital "B".

The more passenger-traffic on a route, the more buses required. The Novas will be getting a workout for sure on these routes.

Actually I think BusHunter may have unknowingly put an angle on this we're not thinking enough about: the rehabs. Yeah the 7900s may be playing a part in these moves, but think about it guys. Did we not warn each other to look for things get weird in the NF 1000s assignments after the rehabs started? What can be weirder than all the NFs disappearing from FG and most from 74th (if the final approximately 45 remaining Novas at 77th go to 74th)? And we know FG is lighter service garage relatively speaking. Plus 74th has been operating many of its lighter routes like the 44, 48, 94 and west of Midway routes with all or mostly Novas for a few weeks at least. Add in that the South Shops are on the same grounds as 77th Garage and it's not to hard to see 77th taking on a lot of NFs. They can be rehabbed easier and at the same time service is still maintained on its assigned routes. I don't know about the whole rearranging to hold less old buses from being downtown idea though. As pointed out 74th does have the 62 but 74th taking on more Novas runs against the decreasing old buses downtown premise since it becomes more Novas will be on the 62 under the present moves. Plus Chicago has not been getting rid of its Novas and a lot of them do operate on the 20. Which gets us to the thought that Chicago keeping its Novas puts too many on the North side. Not necessarily because looking at the manner in which Chicago's Novas are deployed, they tend to be found more on the 20, 54B, 70 and 132 and from what I've seen. 53, 54, 65, 72, 73, 74 and 76 have been getting operated mostly with NFs.

[jajuan]

Exactly... when a bus gets serviced, a technician/mechanic has to detail what he/she did to that bus. So for example, let's say Tim was tasked to flush and top off oil and coolant in #6882. If he did so and a hose ruptured while on the road, it's not his fault... hoses do break over time. If he forgot to add something before putting the bus out, then he would be at fault because upon inspection in this scenario, the hoses are fine, but there is little or no oil/coolant in the engine. It was Tim's responsibility to top off oil/coolant before that bus leaves the service bay.

CTA Supervisors can look over the paperwork/computer files on #6882 as Tim has to log what he's done to the bus while in the service bay. Any errors on his part could result in disciplinary action, if it's deemed his fault by his Garage Supervisor. One thing someone servicing a bus and adding fluids after finishing that is to look for leaks before that bus leaves the service bay. It could still be his fault if he failed to do so and it was leaking as it left. That's something my Father did after servicing hoses on a bus or adding fluids.

A bus that's overheating is life-threatening mechanical issue for the engine as every minute that bus is running while running hot is every minute closer to that engine becoming a hunk of seized metal.

You misunderstand me. The overheating engine may have been threatening to the bus itself, but not exactly to the passenger as the operator was able to safely pull over and arrange for passengers to be placed on the following bus. Add that we're still talking about a fairly old bus as the 6400s as a series are set to begin retirement within the next couple of months, so things are going to likely fail more with that series. So as I was pointing out to you, your initial "whoever serviced that bus has a lot of explaining to do" comment is a bit hyperbolic and a bit of an overreaction.

[BusHunter]

I did a total recount of my roster. (thanks to Jajuan) Yeah I did have a few counts off. The most surprising revelation to me was that FG dropped to the mid 230 range with all old buses.

As far as Jajuan's theory about putting non rehab buses at 77th. It makes sense for FG, but why 74th? It's practically down the street from 77th. Chicago will be transferring something for the #76 unless FG is getting New Flyers, which makes no sense looking at the last month. Hmm... 61 novas at Chicago, 45 #1500's at 74th.... could be 16 chicago novas to FG and the other 45 to 74th. See what I'm saying? Why keep 45 Novas at Chicago? It's just too small of a number of buses to matter. That's what happened with NP. Someone discovered hey "why are stocking nova parts for 20 buses?"

More coincidence: #1113-51 (38 buses) #6428-#6449, #6451 - #6470 (42 buses)

[jajuan]

I did a total recount of my roster. (thanks to Jajuan) Yeah I did have a few counts off. The most surprising revelation to me was that FG dropped to the mid 230 range with all old buses.

As far as Jajuan's theory about putting non rehab buses at 77th. It makes sense for FG, but why 74th? It's practically down the street from 77th. Chicago will be transferring something for the #76 unless FG is getting New Flyers, which makes no sense looking at the last month. Hmm... 61 novas at Chicago, 45 #1500's at 74th.... could be 16 chicago novas to FG and the other 45 to 74th. See what I'm saying? Why keep 45 Novas at Chicago? It's just too small of a number of buses to matter. That's what happened with NP. Someone discovered hey "why are stocking nova parts for 20 buses?"

More coincidence: #1113-51 (38 buses) #6428-#6449, #6451 - #6470 (42 buses)

The one monkey wrench on your theory with Chicago is you're forgetting that Chicago is taking on one route completely from Kedzie and helping it out on some others. So if FG does gain anything for the 76, it can't be completely from Chicago, if anything does move from there to FG. Chicago is still going to need buses on hand to operate as reported come the start of spring pick. Plus my theory as far as rehabbing goes is that perhaps in their thinking it's easier to facilitate rehabs and maintain service on busy routes by having as many NFs as possible right there near the South Shops. I'm taking into account garmon's pictures that seemed to suggest the rehabs are being done within the South Shops. It is CTA's bus heavy maintenance facility to after all and rehabbing is a heavy maintenance procedure from the way they described it. Plus 74th like FG had Novas in place already which 77th had to move out if they were making room for a lot of NFs. That's why 74th also if doing rehabs and maintaining service on 79th's routes play a part in all these moves. Plus many of the newer rehabs do seem to be among NFs that got transferred to 77th from FG and 74th.

[BusHunter]

Yeah but the only other place fg can look to is 74th. No one else will have novas after the spring pick.

[jajuan]

Yeah but the only other place fg can look to is 74th. No one else will have novas after the spring pick.

True and that's if they are really serious about maintaining this consolidation they just facilitated. And it also gets to one reason that wordguy was pointed to that even doing a consolidation made no sense to begin with. What you pointed out is the main complication he was talking about.

[wordguy]

Yeah but the only other place fg can look to is 74th. No one else will have novas after the spring pick.

You may be right, BH. But I'm not sure that it should be a foregone conclusion just yet.

Without access to official CTA sources, all any of us can do is speculate. Assuming that the exodus of 6400s from 77th continues, isn't it still possible that Chicago Avenue could get thrown into the mix? Even if 20 of their old Novas do migrate to FG along with the 76, they may receive 20 or more other 6400-series Novas in a swap with 77th. So Chicago Avenue might still have a net gain of Novas, maybe an overall total of 65 or 70.

I still believe that the 300 Smart buses will be assigned to all three barns: 74th, FG, & Chicago.

One other unknown: Whether or not Nova will be awarded the 150-bus option. I guess it's likely, assuming that the CTA is satisfied with the performance of the first 100 or so of the original order. But one way or another, they'll probably award a contract for 150 40-footers to someone before the year is out, as replacements for 6709-6883. If Nova gets the order, then it would seem to make sense to assign the last ones to 77th. (The NF rehabs would be done by then, too, so there'd no longer be a need to keep an all-NF inventory there, in support of Jajuan's theory).

[Busjack]

....

One other unknown: Whether or not Nova will be awarded the 150-bus option. I guess it's likely, assuming that the CTA is satisfied with the performance of the first 100 or so of the original order. But one way or another, they'll probably award a contract for 150 40-footers to someone before the year is out, as replacements for 6709-6883. If Nova gets the order, then it would seem to make sense to assign the last ones to 77th. (The NF rehabs would be done by then, too, so there'd no longer be a need to keep an all-NF inventory there, in support of Jajuan's theory).

If there is a 150 bus order, Nova will get it, as the intent for a 5 year option was not to rebid. However, since the solicitation was changed from a sliding scale of 40 and 60 foot buses totaling 450 to up to 450 40 foot buses and the unawarded 50 to 150 60 foot buses, the real question is CTA's intent with artics. Obviously, though, at this moment, even taking account the 4300s, it appears that CTA is 125 short of replacing all Novas at the moment (I'm assuming that 45 4300s in effect replaced the Optimas).

[dann]

Just saw 6506 on #135 just now. Undoubtedly a fill-in or loaner.

[sw4400]

You may be right, BH. But I'm not sure that it should be a foregone conclusion just yet.

Without access to official CTA sources, all any of us can do is speculate. Assuming that the exodus of 6400s from 77th continues, isn't it still possible that Chicago Avenue could get thrown into the mix? Even if 20 of their old Novas do migrate to FG along with the 76, they may receive 20 or more other 6400-series Novas in a swap with 77th. So Chicago Avenue might still have a net gain of Novas, maybe an overall total of 65 or 70.

I still believe that the 300 Smart buses will be assigned to all three barns: 74th, FG, & Chicago.

One other unknown: Whether or not Nova will be awarded the 150-bus option. I guess it's likely, assuming that the CTA is satisfied with the performance of the first 100 or so of the original order. But one way or another, they'll probably award a contract for 150 40-footers to someone before the year is out, as replacements for 6709-6883. If Nova gets the order, then it would seem to make sense to assign the last ones to 77th. (The NF rehabs would be done by then, too, so there'd no longer be a need to keep an all-NF inventory there, in support of Jajuan's theory).

Why not? They'll all be rehabbed and like-new.

74th & FG will get #7900's, that's definitely the picture I'm seeing. There's only 300, so it might be an even split of 150/150 between the two(it would be surprising if it's an uneven split). If the option for another 150 is exercised, then maybe another garage may get some(I don't see the likelihood of a third garage with just 300 buses on order), but given that the New Flyers are leaving these two garages to be replaced with stock that is due to begin retirement come late April/early May, this is where they will most likely land. The New Flyers were only to be rehabbed six at a time, so they could've been taken from their home garages and driven to South Shops, then returned when finished. This is in prep for the Smart Buses. This is a garage move, similar to the one that took place when the New Flyers first came in. I never recalled seeing #5700's on Damen until toward the end of their life as they were shipped there while Archer got New Flyers, and who was next to get them after Archer? Kedzie was the next garage.

[BusHunter]

This reminds me of the consolidation making Archer and FG all novas back in 2009-10, when most of the NF's went elsewhere. Now there is no Archer garage, so 74th will have to take it's place. As much as we say there might be a Nova split, evens and odds, it's still possible they might just start with 74th only. By sending most of the newer nova buses north, they could just go that route. They could just fall back on the plan of returning rehabbed NF's to FG to rid them of the first year Novas, but that would put delivery of new novas at a third garage, possibly 77th again as that seems to be the 3rd most likely place to have them after 74th and FG. I never really understood why Chicago had them, maybe for training? But I agree it will be 2 or possibly 3 garages for Novas, but if they are consolidation happy just 2.

[jajuan]

Why not? They'll all be rehabbed and like-new.

74th & FG will get #7900's, that's definitely the picture I'm seeing. There's only 300, so it might be an even split of 150/150 between the two(it would be surprising if it's an uneven split). If the option for another 150 is exercised, then maybe another garage may get some(I don't see the likelihood of a third garage with just 300 buses on order), but given that the New Flyers are leaving these two garages to be replaced with stock that is due to begin retirement come late April/early May, this is where they will most likely land. The New Flyers were only to be rehabbed six at a time, so they could've been taken from their home garages and driven to South Shops, then returned when finished. This is in prep for the Smart Buses. This is a garage move, similar to the one that took place when the New Flyers first came in. I never recalled seeing #5700's on Damen until toward the end of their life as they were shipped there while Archer got New Flyers, and who was next to get them after Archer? Kedzie was the next garage.

The 7900s impending arrival can't be the sole reason they're moving all these NFs and replacing them with old Novas. For one thing, it has NOT been established that 74th is going to lose ALL its NFs. It breaks the historical standard that CTA has never really swapped anything around to such a high degree BEFORE delivery of a new bus model getting has started. Plus even if they get the full 450 they'd still be short a good roughly 25 to maybe 30 buses when we take into account FG has to see a net gain in buses by the time of spring pick start to be able to take on the 76.

[jajuan]

One thing I've been noticing today is that the internal clocks on the Clever Devices are set on standard time still instead of Daylight Savings. All the buses time on the stop announcement displays are one hour behind from what I saw. And that would explain why at 9AM I saw a 9 Ashland NF bus southbound at Roosevelt sporting the 'BEVERLY/103' destination when by that time all buses crossing the Roosevelt intersection should only be going to 95th.