More Bus Moves

[jajuan]

Anybody notice also five Kedzie artics off Chicago Av go to North Park for midday layups? Started a pick or two ago. Shades of Chicago Motor Coach!

I thought I was noticing Kedzie artics going to North Park, but I wasn't sure what routes they were coming from. I at first thought Kedzie was lending NP artics here and there.

[jajuan]

New airport commissioner.

Nothing ever dies, nor gets built ... unless there is federal money. Carter also said that he and Rahm know their way around Washington, but we sure haven't seen any result from that.

Anyway, the web link.

Thanks for the link. And yes I admit "died" was too strong a reference. "Went into indefinite limbo" would appear more accurate.

There isn't going to be a cent of federal money to the CTA, Pace or Metra until the insane Tea Party is gone from Congress.

I agree, but for the time being that may not be happening as soon as hoped with that particular political wing now emboldened, chomping at the bit and out for even more political blood now that Speaker Boehner has announced that he will be stepping down as Speaker of the House and resigning from Congress entirely effective October 30th. In the short term, at minimum, we're going to get even more of the disruption and gridlocked inaction fueled by that vocal ultraconservative farthest right wing of the Republican Party who have no desire to actually govern as they have no concept that the even when your side has the legislative majority, and in some cases heads the executive branch, it's not all "our side gets everything and you the minority side in this cycle gets nothing" since the very heart of healthy governing includes compromise, something that they've shown time and again they are not interested in doing with all the "shut down the government unless we get our way" nonsense. Even if some of us are Democrats in terms of our politics, that should be quite frightening to some degree to see the Republican Party on the national scale and at the state level in a number of states in such a dysfunctional state because on the larger scale we need both political parties functioning to a relative healthy degree politically speaking to keep us all in that healthy balanced middle ground and from careening to disaster from rushing too far over in either direction on that metaphorical pendulum. 

[Busjack]

...

I agree, but for the time being that may not be happening as soon as hoped with that particular political wing now emboldened, ...

Don't have to go that deep into it. All of it is a highway bill, and if reps from the boondocks don't want highway money, so be it. Still is the issue that the motor fuel tax trust fund isn't generating the income.

[andrethebusman]

The red over red is only a visual signal to prevent a collision or derailment at a junction. Didn't prevent two at Granville.

No, the Evanston Express stopped like he was supposed to. The North Shore didn't. There were no advance signals at Granville, only a home signal. CRT/CTA never used advance signals at any interlockings, so a following train was supposed to operate at a speed such as to be able to stop within half the field of vision, as the rules at the time said. Only non-interlocked signals were a few at curves, I believe only on the north side, and they were non-enforcing, i.e. no tripper arms. CRT basically relied on competent motormen. CTA accepts incompetence and tries to override it with safety enforcing external equipment. Which makes more sense?

[Busjack]

The red over red is only a visual signal to prevent a collision or derailment at a junction. Didn't prevent two at Granville.

No, the Evanston Express stopped like he was supposed to. The North Shore didn't.....

The accidents I mentioned were 50 years after the North Shore went out of business.

[jajuan]

Don't have to go that deep into it. All of it is a highway bill, and if reps from the boondocks don't want highway money, so be it. Still is the issue that the motor fuel tax trust fund isn't generating the income.

Well considering that the transportation bills used to be among the easiest things for Congress to compromise on and get passed because everyone needs roads and highways, and that I was responding to stricture's point of how dysfunctional the goofballs in the clown car have made things, this time around I think I did need to go that deep. Those reps from the boondocks are the backbone of the majority these days. So it's a bit deeper than them saying they don't want highway dollars. They don't want the rest of us to have any either. And that makes it an everything doesn't always fit in clean unconnected bubbles point.

[Busjack]

Well considering that the transportation bills used to be among the easiest things for Congress to compromise on and get passed because everyone needs roads and highways, and that I was responding to stricture's point of how dysfunctional the goofballs in the clown car have made things, this time around I think I did need to go that deep. Those reps from the boondocks are the backbone of the majority these days. So it's a bit deeper than them saying they don't want highway dollars. They don't want the rest of us to have any either. And that makes it an everything doesn't always fit in clean unconnected bubbles point.

It's up to them whether they want potholes.However, I was a bit put off that APTA was advertising on WGN radio for a transportation bill, so maybe they think it isn't that straightforward, either.

[jajuan]

It's up to them whether they want potholes.However, I was a bit put off that APTA was advertising on WGN radio for a transportation bill, so maybe they think it isn't that straightforward, either.

And the rest of us get potholes too right along with them as long as they think their only function is disrupt everything based on sometimes unrealistic principles rather than actually govern (which by definition includes that nasty word compromise ) as the law says they're also supposed to do.  And unfortunately for us they don't want to compromise with Dems or traditional Republicans. Since we pay these bozos right along with the reps of both parties that do want to govern, that should be a concern that all they want to do is perform these ridiculous stunts that go no where.

[briman94]

At Lake on the Red Line today, Mr. CTA only announced "transfer to Blue Line trains at Lake" instead of the usual "transfer to Orange, Green, Pink, Purple, Brown, and Blue Line trains at Lake". Have they opted to shorten the announcements there, too, like they did at Harold Washington Library (State and VanBuren...)?

Edited October 5, 2015 by briman94

[peter.pyterek]

At Lake on the Red Line today, Mr. CTA only announced "transfer to Blue Line trains at Lake" instead of the usual "transfer to Orange, Green, Pink, Purple, Brown, and Blue Line trains at Lake". Have they opted to shorten the announcements there, too, like they did at Harold Washington Library (State and VanBuren...)?

Must've been middle of the night

[briman94]

Must've been middle of the night

But it was during morning rush  and the clocks inside the front car were displaying the right time so the announcement system should have known that

[Busjack]

But it was during morning rush  and the clocks inside the front car were displaying the right time so the announcement system should have known that

But it indicates that something in the system wasn't properly programmed, such as the run. Didn't Andre post something about how entering the run number affected whether transfer to the Purple Line was announced?

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

But it indicates that something in the system wasn't properly programmed, such as the run. Didn't Andre post something about how entering the run number affected whether transfer to the Purple Line was announced?

It makes sense, considering that the run number dictates a lot more on the 5000s than on other railcars. I think on the older cars you could select any announcement through the little interface, but that's probably not the case on the 5000s.

[briman94]

I got another driver on the red line this morning who doesn't understand the concept of "coasting"... Anytime we were going constant speed instead of speeding up or braking, he would keep going from max power to max brake about once a second, making it nigh impossible to balance and making holding onto something a true workout...

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

I got another driver on the red line this morning who doesn't understand the concept of "coasting"... Anytime we were going constant speed instead of speeding up or braking, he would keep going from max power to max brake about once a second, making it nigh impossible to balance and making holding onto something a true workout...

I actually did a little research on this because I knew of two accidents that were supposedly caused by additional wear of components due to trains not coasting properly or accelerating and decelerating too quickly. Both trains used ATO, but the trains would sometimes behave like what you describe.

The first was a derailment in London, where a motor fell out of an Underground train and was run over, causing a derailment. My belief was that the ATO system caused the trains to go from full power to full braking when approaching a station with no intermediate power or braking points (I remember reading that somewhere), kind of like what your operator was doing. However I found a PDF that lays the blame on bad bolts.

The second was in Hong Kong. I don't have all of the information, but I read that the ATO system might have caused under-frame cracking in the trains, though this was later said to be false according to the transit corporation's chairman.

[Busjack]

I actually did a little research on this because I knew of two accidents that were supposedly caused by additional wear of components due to trains not coasting properly or accelerating and decelerating too quickly. Both trains used ATO, but the trains would sometimes behave like what you describe.

....

The issue seems more that the operator didn't know how regenerative braking works. There were posts in the early days of 5000s on the Red Line that trains were stopping short of the platform, but you would have thought they would have figured it out by now.

[briman94]

I actually did a little research on this because I knew of two accidents that were supposedly caused by additional wear of components due to trains not coasting properly or accelerating and decelerating too quickly. Both trains used ATO, but the trains would sometimes behave like what you describe.

The first was a derailment in London, where a motor fell out of an Underground train and was run over, causing a derailment. My belief was that the ATO system caused the trains to go from full power to full braking when approaching a station with no intermediate power or braking points (I remember reading that somewhere), kind of like what your operator was doing. However I found a PDF that lays the blame on bad bolts.

The second was in Hong Kong. I don't have all of the information, but I read that the ATO system might have caused under-frame cracking in the trains, though this was later said to be false according to the transit corporation's chairman.

Thankfully the 5000s have an "in-between", but that doesn't make it less annoying to balance when the driver alternates between max power and brake...felt a bit like a rocking sailboat actually. 

The issue seems more that the operator didn't know how regenerative braking works. There were posts in the early days of 5000s on the Red Line that trains were stopping short of the platform, but you would have thought they would have figured it out by now.

Regenerative brakes shouldn't really change how the brakes "feel" though...my hybrid car doesn't feel weird when it stops. It seems more like the driver may have been used to driving D/C equipment and somehow hadn't figured out that "coast" and "min power" are a great way to maintain constant speed instead of "max power" and "max brake". I could hear the clicks as the throttle lever kept passing back and forth through "coast".

[Busjack]

...

Regenerative brakes shouldn't really change how the brakes "feel" though...my hybrid car doesn't feel weird when it stops. It seems more like the driver may have been used to driving D/C equipment and somehow hadn't figured out that "coast" and "min power" are a great way to maintain constant speed instead of "max power" and "max brake". I could hear the clicks as the throttle lever kept passing back and forth through "coast".

However, there is the analogy that on some hybrid and electric cars, taking the foot of the gas engages regen without having to put the foot on the brakes. Similarly, while L cars pretty much had a degree of dynamic braking through the resisters, it should be possible to markedly slow a train with regen by coast instead of slamming on the disk brakes.

[briman94]

However, there is the analogy that on some hybrid and electric cars, taking the foot of the gas engages regen without having to put the foot on the brakes. Similarly, while L cars pretty much had a degree of dynamic braking through the resisters, it should be possible to markedly slow a train with regen by coast instead of slamming on the disk brakes.

Actually on most hybrids you still have to hit the brake pedal, but it will automatically blend between regenerative and regular brakes. The 5000s are similar, but above ~3 MPH, they blend between regenerative and rheostatic and the disc brakes only come on in the "EMERGENCY" setting and below 3 MPH. I think the reason drivers were undershooting is because the brakes are much more responsive and stronger on the 5000s than previous cars because of the fact that they're controlled through a computer instead of through physical links.

[briman94]

This really threw my head for a spin...saw a 4-car of 2600s in the loop today with white-white class lights and figured it was just an out of service transfer. As it got closer, though, I noticed that all the cars had Purple "Loop" signs so I was really confused, because it's 9:00pm so there shouldn't be any purple lines especially not 2600s! When it stopped though, the driver announced that it was an Orange line train to Midway and it announced a 700 run number when it left, so I have no clue what the deal was.

[Busjack]

This really threw my head for a spin...saw a 4-car of 2600s in the loop today with white-white class lights and figured it was just an out of service transfer. As it got closer, though, I noticed that all the cars had Purple "Loop" signs so I was really confused, because it's 9:00pm so there shouldn't be any purple lines especially not 2600s! When it stopped though, the driver announced that it was an Orange line train to Midway and it announced a 700 run number when it left, so I have no clue what the deal was.

My theory got blown out of the water, unless they somehow swapped roll signs so that Orange and Purple were not on the same roll.

[briman94]

My theory got blown out of the water, unless they somehow swapped roll signs so that Orange and Purple were not on the same roll.

I thought all the orange rolls also had Purple (and vice verse). How would that affect class lights?

Edited October 10, 2015 by briman94

[Busjack]

I thought all the orange rolls also had Purple (and vice verse). How would that affect class lights?

It wouldn't affect that.

[briman94]

It wouldn't affect that.

I'll try to get a look at the rollsign diagram next time I get a chance to see how Midway and Loop (purple) line up. Maybe the driver broke off one of the knobs and that was as close as he could get 

[Busjack]

I'll try to get a look at the rollsign diagram next time I get a chance to see how Midway and Loop (purple) line up. Maybe the driver broke off one of the knobs and that was as close as he could get 

Chicago-l.org says white white is legitimate for Purple downtown, so there is some sort of coincidence.