More Bus Moves

[YoungBusLover]

I think at this point any "major" road failure will be fatal.

Well I ask that because I haven't seen that bus in about 3 weeks and the last time I was on it the driver was complaining about how slow the bus was moving, Also there permanent market near the top section by the windshield that said "SLOW Mover". I thought it was kind of funny when I saw it.

[BusHunter]

Well I ask that because I haven't seen that bus in about 3 weeks and the last time I was on it the driver was complaining about how slow the bus was moving, Also there permanent market near the top section by the windshield that said "SLOW Mover". I thought it was kind of funny when I saw it.

It was out the first day it came to FG but I haven't seen it (#6677) since.

[BusHunter]

As of 2/3, following 38 are out of service: 6402, 6404, 6407, 6409, 6412, 6414, 6416, 6418, 6420, 6450, 6463, 6469, 6476, 6491, 6522, 6527, 6531, 6540, 6568, 6595, 6596, 6607, 6610, 6612, 6614, 6616, 6631, 6647, 6655, 6693, 6709, 6723, 6726, 6738, 6741, 6749, 6777, 6832

As of 2/3 following assigned (minus those listed above in the interest of saving space):

6400-6423 FG

6424-6467 C

6468-6473 74

6474-6478 FG

6479-6488 74

6489-6490 FG

6492-6497 C

6498-6520 FG

6521-6525 C

6526-6529 FG

6530 C

6532 FG

6533-6537 C

6538 FG

6539-6550 C

6551 FG

6552-6554 C

6555-6557 FG

6558-6559 C

6560-6659 FG

6660-6664 C

6665-6682 FG

6683 74

6684-6685 FG

6686-6691 74

6692 FG

6694-6696 74

6697-6793 FG

6794-6815 74

6816 FG

6817-6883 74

Personally I expect to see more of the Chicago 64-6500's coming to FG in exchange for 6600's and the last 24 64-6600's from 74th to FG for 6700's. This will likely happen within a week or two.

That's interesting about #6683. That's at FG. Also I checked today #6687 was on the #81. I haven't seen #6684 yet so I'm keeping that as status pending.

So i wonder why they would send over the Chicago buses, the 74th ones are that bad? Now they could send Chicago the amber #6769 - #6710, but they would have to send them something else too. One thing that I think we're all missing is this is going to be a base and option together retirement. We might see #6400's all the way to the end. Thanks for the list!!

[garmon757]

That's interesting about #6683. That's at FG. Also I checked today #6687 was on the #81. I haven't seen #6684 yet so I'm keeping that as status pending.

#6684 is pending retirement after that devastating accident last year.

[NewFlyerMCI]

And yet we want to forget that FG forked all its 5300s on Kedzie for just about all Kedzie's 6000s at a time when the 6000s were not even close to retirement age. I didn't fail to acknowledge anything. As we agreed, FG's current situation is absolutely stupid, it's situation is still a TEMPORARY one. 74th's was not planned to be. It was originally meant to be more permanent. True FG also had 6000s, but it had relatively new 6400s to fall back on. Just as FG also contended with a high number of 6000s along with 74th, this time around 74th is also doing the same with FG when it comes to the 6400s. Speaking of 6400s, it can be argued that Americana garages got passed over for 6400s in favor of FG though 6400s at the time were being pushed as being the replacements to the Americanas. And you're right there is no comparison, but from the standpoint that folks were not beating the deadhorse that 74th got the short end at the time as much as we're seeing this FG/NW side deadhorse beat over the forum several times over already when we all get it and have said several times over that we get it and also agree with that point. And for the umpteenth time it's not just the northwest side that has to contend with that crappy equipment. It's the west side, Oak Park and a part of Forest Park when it comes to the Blue Line. And it's most of the north side on the bus side of things considering FG runs all the east-west bus routes from Diversey up to Peterson. Yet somehow, we keep hearing it's only the northwest side dealing with older aging equipment. So who's overblowing facts here since that accusation wants to get thrown out?

Oh no, more pot stirring. I thought we had enough of this. The NW side comprises of all areas north and west and the west side is 95 percent chicago and kedzie. I'm sorry that you have to hear these complaints but it's about accurate if you compare the lengths of time both garages were in the crapper. It's actually reassuing that I'm not alone in this.Not that CTA will change it's ways. It will do what it wants and we can't control that. All I can say is if FG does get some #8200's and not just #1000's then maybe they are not geographically biased. But I haven't seen evidence in that in 8 years. CTA has to prove it can do the right thing and all this will go away. If not it just festers.

Hey as you said to Garmon a few days ago, freedom of speech, meaning I'm not always going to agree with you. So sorry you have to hear me disagree with you that only FG has ever been in the crapper for a significant amount of time when it comes to equipment especially when 4400s and 5300s get counted in the mix being that those were both retirement age when CTA knocked off the last Americanas and 7300s.

I daresay that the established point here has been made: Forest Glen is essentially a graveyard. CTA has failed to actually make rational decisions in some cases(74th sending their Novas, 77th losing its artics, unequal bus distribution (#7900s), etc). Its been heard. Rahm-pool, to a certain extent either don't care, or it isn't at the top of the to do list. I don't begrudge either point. I agree, that FG becoming a graveyard, is irresponsible. Blue Line not getting 5000's, the list goes on. Some would say finally, stick it to the man, which I don't agree with, but I can see where they are coming from. But we can't change that. So lets move on.

Typed yesterday, 9:30pm

[busfan2847]

#6684 is pending retirement after that devastating accident last year.

Nope. 6684 is back in service. It was on the 48 last Thursday and had moved to F and was on the 78 on Monday and is on the 91 today.

[busfan2847]

Could #6677 be a possible retirement addition?

No 6677 is in service it is on the 86 today.

[busfan2847]

As of 2/3, following 38 are out of service: 6402, 6404, 6407, 6409, 6412, 6414, 6416, 6418, 6420, 6450, 6463, 6469, 6476, 6491, 6522, 6527, 6531, 6540, 6568, 6595, 6596, 6607, 6610, 6612, 6614, 6616, 6631, 6647, 6655, 6693, 6709, 6723, 6726, 6738, 6741, 6749, 6777, 6832

As of 2/3 following assigned (minus those listed above in the interest of saving space):

6400-6423 FG

6424-6467 C

6468-6473 74

6474-6478 FG

6479-6488 74

6489-6490 FG

6492-6497 C

6498-6520 FG

6521-6525 C

6526-6529 FG

6530 C

6532 FG

6533-6537 C

6538 FG

6539-6550 C

6551 FG

6552-6554 C

6555-6557 FG

6558-6559 C

6560-6659 FG

6660-6664 C

6665-6682 FG

6683 74

6684-6685 FG

6686-6691 74

6692 FG

6694-6696 74

6697-6793 FG

6794-6815 74

6816 FG

6817-6883 74

Personally I expect to see more of the Chicago 64-6500's coming to FG in exchange for 6600's and the last 24 64-6600's from 74th to FG for 6700's. This will likely happen within a week or two.

6687 is at F it is on the 86 today

[YoungBusLover]

I saw #6833 @ 77th this morning and it doesn't look to be retired, the only thing wrong with it is the engine cover on the back was crumpled up like a tin can. I also saw #6744 park by some more new #8000's at the west fence.

[BusHunter]

I saw #6833 @ 77th this morning and it doesn't look to be retired, the only thing wrong with it is the engine cover on the back was crumpled up like a tin can. I also saw #6744 park by some more new #8000's at the west fence.

Damn what happened to #6833? If that was a low bus it would be gone, especially if there was engine damage. But it might be gone anyway.

[YoungBusLover]

Damn what happened to #6833? If that was a low bus it would be gone, especially if there was engine damage. But it might be gone anyway.

I have no clue but the damage was only to the back cover and not the engine itself from what I saw. Also there's a small amount of #6500's at southshops.

[Guest]

Very ususual sighting the other day, or maybe not!!! I was driving WB on Foster ave from the lakefront. About Kimball I followed a NP artic #4031, it was marked (#56) on the rear. So I stayed with it to see where it was going. I was expecting it to travel all the way west to Jeff Pk. When we got to Foster/Cicero the bus turned SB on Cicero ave. NP does not operate Milwaukee runs.I had to continue my journey WB. Any thoughts on this???

[jajuan]

I daresay that the established point here has been made: Forest Glen is essentially a graveyard. CTA has failed to actually make rational decisions in some cases(74th sending their Novas, 77th losing its artics, unequal bus distribution (#7900s), etc). Its been heard. Rahm-pool, to a certain extent either don't care, or it isn't at the top of the to do list. I don't begrudge either point. I agree, that FG becoming a graveyard, is irresponsible. Blue Line not getting 5000's, the list goes on. Some would say finally, stick it to the man, which I don't agree with, but I can see where they are coming from. But we can't change that. So lets move on.

Typed yesterday, 9:30pm

Hmmm the many times debunked FG is a graveyard theory again. If that theory were true, then the last of the Fishbowls, the MAN 4000s, the 4400s, 5300s and the 5800s, not to mention the 900s should have gone there to die. But they didn't. Only the last of the 9800s were retired from there. Not quite the track record of a graveyard garage is it? And the discussion was already over before you even typed your inaccurate response.

[Busjack]

Hmmm the many times debunked FG is a graveyard theory again.

I don't think he was referring to historically, but this time around. However, since the scrap line is at 77th, the justification for hauling the oldest 6400s to FG, just to have to tow their hulks back to 77th doesn't seem to have an explanation, yet.

[Tcmetro]

I've been looking into the operations of the former X routes. The 53AL seems to be the outlier of them, providing a one-way service (as opposed to the other X routes which were bi-directional during peak hours).

I suppose my question is about the reason behind the 53AL. Were loads heavy enough and service slow enough to justify the operation of a limited-stop version of the 53A? Moreso than other express lines, the 3, 4, 9, 20, 49, 54, 55, 80?

[andrethebusman]

Very ususual sighting the other day, or maybe not!!! I was driving WB on Foster ave from the lakefront. About Kimball I followed a NP artic #4031, it was marked (#56) on the rear. So I stayed with it to see where it was going. I was expecting it to travel all the way west to Jeff Pk. When we got to Foster/Cicero the bus turned SB on Cicero ave. I had to continue my journey WB. Any thoughts on this???

There are a couple of Schurz HS school trippers from NP that come out Foster-Cicero-Milwaukee to Addison, go downtown to Washington/Canal then to 135/136 via Washington-Wacker-Jackson

[BusHunter]

I've been looking into the operations of the former X routes. The 53AL seems to be the outlier of them, providing a one-way service (as opposed to the other X routes which were bi-directional during peak hours).

I suppose my question is about the reason behind the 53AL. Were loads heavy enough and service slow enough to justify the operation of a limited-stop version of the 53A? Moreso than other express lines, the 3, 4, 9, 20, 49, 54, 55, 80?

The #53AL was a precursor to the later X routes which back in those days were called limiteds. King Drive limited I believe debut either with the #53AL or it was first. Looking at my old maps, I can trace both of them to at least the June 1998 map. They ran in the peak directions of travel based on AM or PM trips. In the Summer of "99 map the #X49 debuts which was the first of the X routes. Soon after in 2002 the #X55 and #X80 starts service. Soon after it was joined by #X4 in Spring of 2003. They also had the Avon express which they called #X98 in 2003 also. By summer of 2005 they had started the #X28 service and the #3L was changed to #X3 even though it still only served peak directions. But then in 2006 there was big expansion of service. This included #X9, #X54, #X20 service. All X service ran until Feb 2010's map which takes away all X service except the #X28 and #X98, later though the #X28 name was dropped for #28 which had a route expansion to Union station to replace the #X28 as the X name was dying. Somewhere in that cronology there also was the #X99, but it was short lived because it had poor ridership. Hope this helps you out!!

[Guest]

There are a couple of Schurz HS school trippers from NP that come out Foster-Cicero-Milwaukee to Addison, go downtown to Washington/Canal then to 135/136 via Washington-Wacker-Jackson

Ok Thanks for the clarification Andre!

[Busjack]

The #53AL was a precursor to the later X routes which back in those days were called limiteds. King Drive limited I believe debut either with the #53AL or it was first....

King Dr. Limited went back to early CTA days, and I would bet CMC had it. We've discussed before that there were such things as the Addison Limited and Express (canned when Addison no longer went downtown in 1973), 63 Limited, and even 72 Limited as a replacement of the Humboldt Park L.

Apparently 53AL was to take care of demand to the Orange Line, especially after the 162 (Pulaski-Stevenson Express) was canceled.

It is even harder to believe that at one time there was a 164 Naragansett-Stevenson Express (running artics).

[andrethebusman]

King Dr. Limited went back to early CTA days, and I would bet CMC had it. We've discussed before that there were such things as the Addison Limited and Express (canned when Addison no longer went downtown in 1973), 63 Limited, and even 72 Limited as a replacement of the Humboldt Park L.

Apparently 53AL was to take care of demand to the Orange Line, especially after the 162 (Pulaski-Stevenson Express) was canceled.

It is even harder to believe that at one time there was a 164 Naragansett-Stevenson Express (running artics).

CMC had Limiteds back in the 1920's on many of their main lines, such as Jackson, Washington, South Park, Garfield. CSL's first one was Archer in 1946, but unlike the CMC ones which were all just rush hours in the rush direction, Archer Express was initially 20 hours a day 7 days a week, though evening and Sunday service was ended in 1948 when Archer was converted to all bus service. The next one was South Chicago Express in 1949, replacing the Cottage Grove-South Chicago streetcar (#5), but this was a rush only route. Both of these were extra fare, too, costing 1 cent more than the regular fare (11c vs 10c). Almost all the other limited-stops routes in the 1960's however could be traced back to CMC, be they street expresses like Garfield and South Park or Lake Shore Dr routes like Sheridan, Wilson, Jeffery, Hyde Park. All of these LSD routes dated back to when LSD was built in the 1930's. CMC was a big believer in trying to run faster downtown service where possible.

CTA only started a few new expresses when the expressways opened. State Limited, Garfield Express via Expwy, Vincennes Express on the Dan Ryan, Devon-Northwest Express on the Kennedy, Archer Express via Expwy on the Stevenson all started soon after each highway opened, but eventually expressway operation became pointless because of congestion on the roads. Otherwise, North Limited replaced the Humboldt L, Central Limited was started in 1956 because of severe crowding on Central in North Austin going to the lake St L at the time, Milwaukee Limited in 1951 because of overloading going to the Logan Square L.

The big expansion in express service was in the 1980's, when Archer started growing branches. Expressway trips ran to Harlem, 63rd/Archer via Narragansett, Cicero/63rd, 115th/Keeler via Pulaski while street expresses were added from the West Loop (Wells/Hubbard) via Wells-Adams-Halsted-Archer to Harlem.

Meanwhile, many of the older street limiteds went away, such as 63rd, Addison, North, Milwaukee, Central because riding was down so much on the regular routes that the capacity was no longer needed. As of 1976, the only expresses left were on Archer and LSD.

X99 by the way was an attempt at running service from 95th/Ryan to the Ford plant area on Torrence, serving the warehouses that supply Ford. It was a failure because these warehouses do not keep regular work schedules, but work according to when Ford works, so starting and ending times vary week to week, even day to day, and there is no way a fixed route can serve that kind of market.

[Busjack]

...but eventually expressway operation became pointless because of congestion on the roads. Otherwise, ...Milwaukee Limited in 1951 because of overloading going to the Logan Square L.

Aside from the mixing of Express and Limited, the main reason the south side express buses such as 6X Garfield Express) ended was that the Dan Ryan L opened. There was also a 19 bus from the Devon-Harlem area to Logan Square, which ended when the Jefferson Park L opened.

[Busjack]

Another bizarre, but explainable one, similar to 53AL, was 80A West Irving Park Express. 80A itself was an extension of the 80 trolley bus line from Neenah to Cumberland (or was it called Pueblo in those days), but the express route was established to give the riders a one seat ride to the [now] Blue Line station. Eventually, 80A was extended to Schiller Park, but it appears that 80A or 80W was not integrated into 80 (and 326 split off) until around 1988.

[BusHunter]

Another bizarre, but explainable one, similar to 53AL, was 80A West Irving Park Express. 80A itself was an extension of the 80 trolley bus line from Neenah to Cumberland (or was it called Pueblo in those days), but the express route was established to give the riders a one seat ride to the [now] Blue Line station. Eventually, 80A was extended to Schiller Park, but it appears that 80A or 80W was not integrated into 80 (and 326 split off) until around 1988.

Yeah I vaguely remember that about the 80A express going to Schiller Park. I think it turned around somewhere around Rose ave north of Irving Park I thought at one time it went to River Rd/Blue line which was Rosemont's former name. That would have to be after 1983 though. But where was the terminal in Schiller Park? Or was it a go around the block deal? That would have to predate the River Rd/O'hare extension?

It's interesting in the late 70's, they canned limiteds after the #152 limited and in the 80's everything was called express like Archer Express and then they went back to the limiteds with King Drive. So you jogged my memory on when the #53AL started, after the orange opened. But the #3 limited was a start up too. It may have been there before but there was no #3 limited in the 80's.

[Busjack]

Yeah I vaguely remember that about the 80A express going to Schiller Park. I think it turned around somewhere around Rose ave north of Irving Park I thought at one time it went to River Rd/Blue line which was Rosemont's former name. That would have to be after 1983 though. But where was the terminal in Schiller Park? Or was it a go around the block deal? That would have to predate the River Rd/O'hare extension?....

I rode it around 1977 (not mentioning the circumstances, but then I had to hoof it from the bus to Mannheim Rd.), but the 1981 map on chicago-l.org confirms that it ran via 25th/Rose, Lawrence, and River Rd in a loop.

The 1985 map confirms your memory that after the O'Hare extension, it went to the Rosemont station.

[briman94]

I'm sitting here on a red line waiting for the paramedics to arrive for a sick passenger and the beeper on the door keeps beeping...about one beep every minute. Is there a purpose for that other than to make us all go crazy? :P