sw4400 Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 There'a also the fact that NOVA's are on their way to retirement in the upcoming years. We may see more artics replacing those hopefully Some routes aren't Artic-friendly, so I would look for another order of 40' Buses at 2013 at the earliest, but with mid-lifes on NOVA's occuring/completed, maybe 2016. As far at Transit Manufacurers, New Flyer would probably top the list of candidates for procurement of a bid for buses when it comes out, with NOVA right behind New Flyer(perhaps that was why the NOVA LFS demonstrator stopped at 77th awhile back). NABI won't even be considered if they put a bid in, unless the CTA has adopted a forgive & forget policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 ...unless the CTA has adopted a forgive & forget policy. At least the last set of CTA specs (the one for the bogus order of up to 900) said that history would be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneking7320 Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 If CTA requested bids for 40footers in the next two years does anyone think El Dorado and Gillig would bid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 If CTA requested bids for 40footers in the next two years does anyone think El Dorado and Gillig would bid? Heck, anyone could bid, but the question is whether their buses would meet specifications, whether they could meet the bid bond requirement, etc. However, I don't think that CTA has any requirement that a bus meet a higher durability requirement, such as what NY MTA imposed after its Grumman fiasco. Mentioning NY, it appears that after having relied on Orion VII hybrids, NY followed up its order of Nova articulateds with an order for Nova 40 footers, according to Nova's site. So, I guess nothing is etched in stone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Some routes aren't Artic-friendly, so I would look for another order of 40' Buses at 2013 at the earliest, but with mid-lifes on NOVA's occuring/completed, maybe 2016. As far at Transit Manufacurers, New Flyer would probably top the list of candidates for procurement of a bid for buses when it comes out, with NOVA right behind New Flyer(perhaps that was why the NOVA LFS demonstrator stopped at 77th awhile back). NABI won't even be considered if they put a bid in, unless the CTA has adopted a forgive & forget policy. I don't know if CTA will get anything else from New Flyer after the up to 900 artics fiasco. New Flyer probably took a loss on those buses it built ahead of time. But money talks so you never know. It just may end up they get a split order of Nova 40 footers and maybe a few more artics maybe from the same company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cta5658 Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 #1585 is on the #2 Hyde Park Express Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 At least the last set of CTA specs (the one for the bogus order of up to 900) said that history would be considered. Looking back at the 900 bus order fiasco... was that a CTA mistake, New Flyer mistake, or both? I mean I know that the CTA at one time ordered 1,870 GM Fishbowls from 1972-1977(1000-Series, 7400-Series, 7900-Series, 9000-Series & 9600-Series), but that order was done over time(1972, 1973, 1974, 1975 & 1977), not all placed at once. I don't think in 1972, the CTA awarded a contract to General Motors for 1,870 Fisbowl Transit Buses. They started with an order for 525 Buses in 1972, then ordered 545 Buses in 1973, then ordered 600 Buses in 1975(largest order), then finally ordered 200 Buses in 1977. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoNova Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 I'm not sure if CTA will purchase any more buses from New Flyer, but New Flyer is not manufacturing anymore buses in the traditional style like the New Flyer buses that CTA currently has in the fleet (LFs), which means if CTA purchases any new buses from New Flyer, they will most likely be the restyled version (LFRs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwantae Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 There'a also the fact that NOVA's are on their way to retirement in the upcoming years. We may see more artics replacing those hopefully Hopelly, They'll thinking of ordering Artics from NOVA (LFSA), but they were suppose to order New Nova LFs for replacement of 6400s. I doubt it for CTA getting New Flyer LFRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Looking back at the 900 bus order fiasco... was that a CTA mistake, New Flyer mistake, or both?.... Sounds like two different miscalculations. The total of 900 could only be justified by someone thinking that Chicago would get the Olympics, and like the Bejing Olympics, have an articulated bus go by in the background every 20 seconds. There couldn't be any other justification for them. However, on the base order of 140, the aftermath seems to indicate that New Flyer announced that it had an order when it apparently didn't, and also started producing it. CTA never said anything, one way or the other, but it appears that Notice to Proceed was never given. If New Flyer was told that a contract or the Board vote authorizing a contract was contingent on state money, that state money still has not appeared. Since you mention the 1970s, I think you are correct about those orders. The understanding given to the public was that CTA received several grants for 500 buses, and those grants bought 525 in 1972 and 545 in 1973. The 9600s were bid out by the RTA with their own 8000s. The main difference these days is apparently transit authorities want to lock in five year prices, but the bid documents are so full of contingencies (such as Pace saying about 4 times in one paragraph that there is no obligation if Pace doesn't have the money) that they don't mean anything. Also, New Flyer started with trading of unused options, but apparently NABI is also engaged in that (i.e. the LA bus showing up at Pace on a sales demonstration tour). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordguy Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I'm not sure if CTA will purchase any more buses from New Flyer, but New Flyer is not manufacturing anymore buses in the traditional style like the New Flyer buses that CTA currently has in the fleet (LFs), which means if CTA purchases any new buses from New Flyer, they will most likely be the restyled version (LFRs). I thought that the original LF style had been discontinued, too. However, the New York City MTA is in the process of receiving an order of 135 New Flyer C40LFs. Except for the nearly full-length roof pods housing their CNG tanks, they look identical to the CTA's New Flyers from every perspective, including the flat fronts and the rear vents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoNova Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I thought that the original LF style had been discontinued, too. However, the New York City MTA is in the process of receiving an order of 135 New Flyer C40LFs. Except for the nearly full-length roof pods housing their CNG tanks, they look identical to the CTA's New Flyers from every perspective, including the flat fronts and the rear vents. Well New Flyer might still have LFs in stock to sell, but as far as manufacturing is concerned, no more manufacturing LFs or LFAs (BRT buses). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Well New Flyer might still have LFs in stock to sell, but as far as manufacturing is concerned, no more manufacturing LFs or LFAs (BRT buses). I'm sure (especially as desperate as New Flyer became after the CTA order fell through) that if they could get an order for 900 buses, and getting the bid depended on the old style being cheaper than the new one, they would do it. Of course, that takes us full circle, in that they didn't get the order for the 900. Even if they would gave received the order for 140, it appears that those buses were the old style, unless the guy from Baltimore or somewhere else that got the 14 that were apparently started tells us differently. Also, I think one thing we can say for both CTA and Pace is that they don't care how the buses look, so long as they are the low bid, and, possibly in CTA's current case, they don't rattle apart immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted June 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Well, I wouldn't say the 60' New Flyer is gone. The website still has New Flyers available in 35', 40' and 60' LFX or XLF(Xcelsior Models) and the LFR Series is available in 30', 35', 40', and 60' with drive systems fueled by Diesel-Electric(DELFR), Gasoline-Electric(GELFR), Compressed or Liquid Natural Gas(CNGR, LNGR), Electric Power/Trolley(ELFR), Diesel(DLFR), and ULSD(Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel). Link to Xcelsior Page Link to Restyled Low Floor Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 OKay I get that the 22 and 151's may need them but for the 151, most of the loads are south of Diversy meaning that Kedzie (Belmont trips) should be the ones using artics, not North Park. Anyone going north of Belmont would use an express bus. Also now since 103rd has lost so many buses, there are now way more 1000's than there should be during rush hour on the 6 and 14 not to mention that 103 also uses artics for the 169 and 192 and possibly for the 125, 143, and 134 runs. 125 is now primarily operated by Chicago, Kedzie and North Park while Kedzie once again does all 134 and 143 runs with 143 operated primarily by 1000s. So 103rd wouldn't need buses, artic or otherwise, for any of these. Plus 103rd is still doing more than enough rush hour trips on 6 and 14 with artics for what 1000s seen on either during those times not to cramp service too much. As of this hour (approaching 3:30pm), the 6 has all artics on the downtown portion. So there is no excess in 1000s there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 125 is now primarily operated by Chicago, Kedzie and North Park while Kedzie once again does all 134 and 143 runs with 143 operated primarily by 1000s. So 103rd wouldn't need buses, artic or otherwise, for any of these. Plus 103rd is still doing more than enough rush hour trips on 6 and 14 with artics for what 1000s seen on either during those times not to cramp service too much. As of this hour (approaching 3:30pm), the 6 has all artics on the downtown portion. So there is no excess in 1000s there. Now check the 14. Spotted plenty of 1000s while out today. Also 14 still gets pretty packed in the rush. Have to let some pass up to get a seat. Sidenote, spotted a #6630 running on 111 Pullman. Is that 74th's bus? Also, first time seeing #1249, was there some type of test with the signs? They have a different font and use a mix of lower and uppercase lettering depending on the route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Now check the 14. Spotted plenty of 1000s while out today. Also 14 still gets pretty packed in the rush. Have to let some pass up to get a seat. Sidenote, spotted a #6630 running on 111 Pullman. Is that 74th's bus? Also, first time seeing #1249, was there some type of test with the signs? They have a different font and use a mix of lower and uppercase lettering depending on the route. Which would probably explain why I don't see as many 1000s coming into downtown on the 14 until late morning rush periods to early midday. Most of the trips coming in on this morning's rush have been operated with artics. Bus deployments do appear to follow riding the riding patterns with CTA's reasoning behind more 1000s in the evening rush than morning being far less stops downtown before the express zone going in the peak direction (SB) than operators have to tackle on the south end in the morning coming northbound in the peak direction. And I do correct myself on one thing in my last post. 103rd does have one AM trip on the 134, but the overall point stays the same since this is one trip and thus only one bus needed for the north end of Lake Shore Drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Spotted #6630 on the #111 route. Isn't that 74th's bus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Spotted #6630 on the #111 route. Isn't that 74th's bus? Yes it's supposed to be which suggests your sighting being a bus on loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Not really a move in buses but this is a bit of a move in route. Kedzie is operating weekday services on the 10 today when before now this summer season it was 77th doing the weekday service. I take it this is a part of this week being the start of the summer pick adjustments in bus schedules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Not really a move in buses but this is a bit of a move in route. Kedzie is operating weekday services on the 10 today when before now this summer season it was 77th doing the weekday service. I take it this is a part of this week being the start of the summer pick adjustments in bus schedules. Maybe it's because 77th frequently loans to 103rd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Can somebody PLEASE shed some light on #1249? The destination signs are in a different configuration and font. Is this part of some new test or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Can somebody PLEASE shed some light on #1249? The destination signs are in a different configuration and font. Is this part of some new test or what? That destination sign has been that way apparently since its time at 77th. It came in to Kedzie from there last February with that different configuration and went to 103rd from Kedzie last summer with the same different configuration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 As of today, during both rush hours, the #6 was practically operated with 75% 1000's New Flyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwantae Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 As of today, during both rush hours, the #6 was practically operated with 75% 1000's New Flyers. Wow, sounds like it's back as 77th route. That's just as terrible as seeing around 75% 1000s NFs on #14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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