CTA Service Adjustments

[jajuan]

Interesting that the linked article claims that the 173 and 174 were cut last August. I could have sworn those routes have been gone for at least three years.

They goofed. 173 and 174 have been gone for about the amount of time you remember. I still lived on the West side when those two got cut.

[jajuan]

Based on the posted map for the new 148, this is not true. It will operate SB on Michigan in a.m. rush to Congress, and NB in p.m rush on State between Congress and Wacker.

It looks like they have scaled back the hours of operation for the downtown portion of the (X)28 Stony Island.

There are some routes that schedules have not been posted for yet, most are routes that have owl service, though the new 111 schedule is among that group.

Update. Looking at notices in rail stations, it indicates 148 will not operate on Michigan south of Wacker

Well looks like someone alerted them of the error because they corrected the schedule map on the advance 148 schedule to reflect that both direction will operate on State street under the current 144 routing and end at Congress and State. One other thing of note is that northbound service will begin at Harrison and State instead of the current Van Buren and State.

I notice on the advance 8 schedule, about seven northbound mid-afternoon/PM rush trips that begin at Roosevelt and Halsted are reflected on that schedule. That would be a long deadhead if 77th is taking over this route from Kedzie and 74th.

[artthouwill]

Well looks like someone alerted them of the error because they corrected the schedule map on the advance 148 schedule to reflect that both direction will operate on State street under the current 144 routing and end at Congress and State. One other thing of note is that northbound service will begin at Harrison and State instead of the current Van Buren and State.

I notice on the advance 8 schedule, about seven northbound mid-afternoon/PM rush trips that begin at Roosevelt and Halsted are reflected on that schedule. That would be a long deadhead if 77th is taking over this route from Kedzie and 74th.

A bit distant, but easily managed by taking the Dan Ryan from 79th to Roosevelt. Halsted is only a block or so away from the Expy at Roosevelt. Perhaps K could still operate those trips and maybe interline with Belmont or Sheridan or LaSalle.

[dann]

A bit distant, but easily managed by taking the Dan Ryan from 79th to Roosevelt. Halsted is only a block or so away from the Expy at Roosevelt. Perhaps K could still operate those trips and maybe interline with Belmont or Sheridan or LaSalle.

It looks to me as if K is operating those trips, interlining with Roosevelt.

[jajuan]

A bit distant, but easily managed by taking the Dan Ryan from 79th to Roosevelt. Halsted is only a block or so away from the Expy at Roosevelt. Perhaps K could still operate those trips and maybe interline with Belmont or Sheridan or LaSalle.

You almost got at my inference about those trips. That's exactly what I was getting at, that Kedzie may in fact be doing trips after Dec. 16th because why have 77th do that kind of deadhead when Kedzie is much closer for trips that are starting at Roosevelt Road. It makes much more sense for 77th to run each bus it puts out on the 8 from the garage down 79th and start at the 79th/Halsted loop. Passing that up and running down the Ryan to start at Roosevelt would be beyond dumb.

[artthouwill]

You almost got at my inference about those trips. That's exactly what I was getting at, that Kedzie may in fact be doing trips after Dec. 16th because why have 77th do that kind of deadhead when Kedzie is much closer for trips that are starting at Roosevelt Road. It makes much more sense for 77th to run each bus it puts out on the 8 from the garage down 79th and start at the 79th/Halsted loop. Passing that up and running down the Ryan to start at Roosevelt would be beyond dumb.

Its not really dumb. Think of the buses 77th deadhead downtown to run the 3 & 4, or 103rd deadheads for the 14 & 26, or NP deadheads for the 147. In that context, it is the same thing.

[Busjack]

Its not really dumb. Think of the buses 77th deadhead downtown to run the 3 & 4, or 103rd deadheads for the 14 & 26, or NP deadheads for the 147. In that context, it is the same thing.

According to the current schedule, those trips started at UIC instead of Roosevelt, which might give credence to that theory, as the Dan Ryan is closest to Halsted at that point. However, the issue then is that there always is a traffic jam on the Dan Ryan northbound of the Chinatown split, so a deadhead would have to get off by there to make any time. Staying on the Dan Ryan to the Roosevelt-Taylor exit would generally be a disaster, as far as making the start time.

But if you want a real puzzlement, the advance schedule indicates that the route starts at both 79th and Waveland at 4:05 a.m.* Since there isn't a Limits Garage, what kind of deadhead is that implying?**

*That isn't a change.

**The route is not as unbalanced with regard to northbound and southbound trips as Ashland is during Owl.

[artthouwill]

According to the current schedule, those trips started at UIC instead of Roosevelt, which might give credence to that theory, as the Dan Ryan is closest to Halsted at that point. However, the issue then is that there always is a traffic jam on the Dan Ryan northbound of the Chinatown split, so a deadhead would have to get off by there to make any time. Staying on the Dan Ryan to the Roosevelt-Taylor exit would generally be a disaster, as far as making the start time.

But if you want a real puzzlement, the advance schedule indicates that the route starts at both 79th and Waveland at 4:05 a.m.* Since there isn't a Limits Garage, what kind of deadhead is that implying?**

*That isn't a change.

**The route is not as unbalanced with regard to northbound and southbound trips as Ashland is during Owl.

Looking at the schedule it seems those trips starting at Roosevelt won't be interlining with anything up north due to the frequency of the northbound arrivals and southbound departures matching up.

Looking at the last northbound trip ending at about 1:41 a.m, would it make sense to have that bus "layover" nearly 2 1/2 hrs or deadhead that bus back to 77th and deadhead another bus from 77th to Waveland? In theory, it would seem that K or even P would operate a few trips including the last northbound trip from 79th and the first southbound roundtrip from Waveland. Yet somehow I think 77th is going to run all the trips.

[renardo870]

If you had read jajuan's and my comments, you would realize that the issue isn't the 5800 riders on the current route, as that includes riders on the segments north of Lawrence and south of Fullerton, that are being retained.

Similarly, your previous citation of numbers for 145 isn't relevant, since the 146 schedule indicates that service is being retained south of Montrose or Irving Park, at the frequency previously covered by both routes 145 and 146.

The only relevant numbers are those on Lincoln between Western and Fullerton and on Wilson itself. CTA may have the numbers based on the gps counters at the doorwells, but I am sure you don't.

You are right, I don't have a gps counter on me personally Busjack, but I am pretty sure those Lincoln buses are not empty between Fullerton and Western. And on the weekends where it only went to North/Clark, I am confident that ridership was stable along Lincoln Ave. Somethings are just about common sense and CTA, as I use the services often misses the mark on that. Thats all i am saying.

[sw4400]

Is this a glimmer of hope? Could the CTA have had enough complaints from the public that they might be rethinking the cuts planned???

[Busjack]

Is this a glimmer of hope? Could the CTA have had enough complaints from the public that they might be rethinking the cuts planned???

Not really. Those are the mandated budget hearings, and a month late. Look at the President's Budget Recommendations.

The earlier cited articles indicated that Pawar was going to get a contingent to the meeting, but since the scope is basically to say "that's the budget, take it or leave it," I doubt it, especially since there is a one day window for the puppet board to get it to the RTA.

[sw4400]

Not really. Those are the mandated budget hearings, and a month late. Look at the President's Budget Recommendations.

The earlier cited articles indicated that Pawar was going to get a contingent to the meeting, but since the scope is basically to say "that's the budget, take it or leave it," I doubt it, especially since there is a one day window for the puppet board to get it to the RTA.

I get what you're saying Busjack, but why do they say that the public is urged to offer feedback at these public meetings? If all the CTA is planning to do is listen and basically do this to the CTA riders, than why would you want to go to voice your concerns and opinions just to fall on deaf ears?

[Busjack]

I get what you're saying Busjack, but why do they say that the public is urged to offer feedback at these public meetings? If all the CTA is planning to do is listen and basically do this to the CTA riders, than why would you want to go to voice your concerns and opinions just to fall on deaf ears?

Based on the Sept. 4 meetings, and Claypool's comments in the Sun Times article that he heard it before, that's what they'll get.

Like I said, the law says the CTA Board has to hold the hearing, so they are going through the motions, although a month late.

Your "they" is Pat Cassidy.

[jajuan]

Its not really dumb. Think of the buses 77th deadhead downtown to run the 3 & 4, or 103rd deadheads for the 14 & 26, or NP deadheads for the 147. In that context, it is the same thing.

I put those deadheads in the same category, especially with the 14, now J14. We're a decade in since that route became bi-directional and they're still doing deadheads to start PM rush southbound trips as if it's still a peak direction only route.

[jajuan]

Not really. Those are the mandated budget hearings, and a month late. Look at the President's Budget Recommendations.

The earlier cited articles indicated that Pawar was going to get a contingent to the meeting, but since the scope is basically to say "that's the budget, take it or leave it," I doubt it, especially since there is a one day window for the puppet board to get it to the RTA.

What also shows you that they're not going to take any comments seriously is that the meeting they have scheduled at Westinghouse is on Dec. 17th, the first weekday and regular work day for the 9 to 5 crowd that the crowd reduction plan is already in effect. If anyone would believe they would reverse killing 144 and 145 and put the 148 back on Wilson, for example, when those changes would already be in operation with the new 148 performing its last trip or two of the day at that meeting's start, then I got a few acres on the moon I want to sell you.

[artthouwill]

I put those deadheads in the same category, especially with the 14, now J14. We're a decade in since that route became bi-directional and they're still doing deadheads to start PM rush southbound trips as if it's still a peak direction only route.

Considering that most of the passengers ride in the Peak direction during Rush Periods, it seems logical to have more equipment going in that direction. The Red Line North gets 2 to 3 minute headways during rush.and the South Side Reds get 5 to 6 minute headways during the same period because South Side peak direction yraffic doesn't justify the same level service the North Side gets the same with the J 14 these north bound rush hour p.m. trips do not justify the same level service a Southbound rush p.m. trips. Thus deadheads make sense in that you can get in two peak direction trips carrying more passengers as opposed to a roundtrip where buses are running practically empty in one direction.

As for the 8,there must be some heavy Northside ridership to justify starting some trips at Roosevelt in the p.m. Ridership NB on S Halsted doesn't require the 5 min frequency that N Halsted does, at least not til latet. As for Dan Ryan deadheading, the only bad, really bad traffic day is Friday. That is the day NB Ryan traffic.backs up to Garfield and sometimes beyond. Other days jumping off at either Cermak Chinatown feeder or Canalport/18th should work fine.

[jajuan]

Considering that most of the passengers ride in the Peak direction during Rush Periods, it seems logical to have more equipment going in that direction. The Red Line North gets 2 to 3 minute headways during rush.and the South Side Reds get 5 to 6 minute headways during the same period because South Side peak direction yraffic doesn't justify the same level service the North Side gets the same with the J 14 these north bound rush hour p.m. trips do not justify the same level service a Southbound rush p.m. trips. Thus deadheads make sense in that you can get in two peak direction trips carrying more passengers as opposed to a roundtrip where buses are running practically empty in one direction.

As for the 8,there must be some heavy Northside ridership to justify starting some trips at Roosevelt in the p.m. Ridership NB on S Halsted doesn't require the 5 min frequency that N Halsted does, at least not til latet. As for Dan Ryan deadheading, the only bad, really bad traffic day is Friday. That is the day NB Ryan traffic.backs up to Garfield and sometimes beyond. Other days jumping off at either Cermak Chinatown feeder or Canalport/18th should work fine.

Be that as it may, instead of deadheading, operate the buses as something else into downtown and make them J14 southbound for the evening rush. At the very least, they would be getting some money for the fuel burned to go into downtown. For the time being, we know 192 northbound does part of the trick. It's just a matter of what else could serve a similar purpose if they still need more southbound buses in place for J14. The problem is 103rd just happens to be perfect for sending buses northbound in service on the route while at the same time being in an inopportune position for getting extra southbound buses placed now that the other mechanism that was previously used for placing southbound buses without the crazy long deadhead, the 127, no longer exists.

As for how this relates to the 8, no one besides CTA has a breakdown of how the numbers work for point to point partial trip over a complete terminal to terminal trip to be able to say the higher frequency on part of a NB trip needs to be higher than SB. But where as the J14 is solely assigned to 103rd, there's nothing that's written in stone that says those partial trips have to also be assigned to 77th if the 8 is in fact getting assigned there especially when you have another garage closer to where those partial runs start. That just leaves one scratching their head as to how in this particular case CTA justifies the waste of the fuel, not to mention time, deadheading on the Ryan from 79th to Roosevelt Road when the buses can be placed in position from Kedzie. At least with the now J14, 103rd can point to the 192 getting extra southbound buses in place for service along with the 127 first being reconfigured in a way that Kedzie made sense for its assignment before its eventual demise to justify deadheading along the Ford and the Ryan all the way from 103rd and Stony Island for the rest that are still needed that 192 wouldn't place downtown at Jefferson and Washington.

[Busjack]

As for the 8,there must be some heavy Northside ridership to justify starting some trips at Roosevelt in the p.m. Ridership NB on S Halsted ...

As I noted, the only change from the existing schedule is that the short northbound trips start at Roosevelt instead of UIC-Blue Line. There appear to be fewer of the short trips, as on the old schedule they started at 12:33, while under the advance schedule they start at 2:43.

Clearly, the buses coming from 79th are running every 10 minutes, when the NB buses are added at Roosevelt, to get an approximately every 5 minutes NB at Waveland, although there are some 10 minute intervals. Then going south from Waveland, they are all in the "every 6 or 7 minute" block, so you can't say that they are only running NB.

It does appear that they did change some early morning runs, in that the ones starting at Orange Line or Root aren't reflected in the advance timetable.

As far as jajuan's pont: After closing barns at Limits and Archer, it doesn't appear that CTA is too concerned about deadhead mileage, as pretty much any garage left on the north and south sides isn't near downtown. The question might be whether things changed when the feds changed the definition of "not in service," but apparently too late to affect CTA operations.

[artthouwill]

Be that as it may, instead of deadheading, operate the buses as something else into downtown and make them J14 southbound for the evening rush. At the very least, they would be getting some money for the fuel burned to go into downtown. For the time being, we know 192 northbound does part of the trick. It's just a matter of what else could serve a similar purpose if they still need more southbound buses in place for J14. The problem is 103rd just happens to be perfect for sending buses northbound in service on the route while at the same time being in an inopportune position for getting extra southbound buses placed now that the other mechanism that was previously used for placing southbound buses without the crazy long deadhead, the 127, no longer exists.

As for how this relates to the 8, no one besides CTA has a breakdown of how the numbers work for point to point partial trip over a complete terminal to terminal trip to be able to say the higher frequency on part of a NB trip needs to be higher than SB. But where as the J14 is solely assigned to 103rd, there's nothing that's written in stone that says those partial trips have to also be assigned to 77th if the 8 is in fact getting assigned there especially when you have another garage closer to where those partial runs start. That just leaves one scratching their head as to how in this particular case CTA justifies the waste of the fuel, not to mention time, deadheading on the Ryan from 79th to Roosevelt Road when the buses can be placed in position from Kedzie. At least with th

e now J14, 103rd can point to the 192 getting extra southbound buses in place for service along with the 127 first being reconfigured in a way that Kedzie made sense for its assignment before its eventual demise to justify deadheading along the Ford and the Ryan all the way from 103rd and Stony Island for the rest that are still needed that 192 wouldn't place downtown at Jefferson and Washington.

I believe there are some.school trippers on the 106, 103, &.34 that operate from Corliss to the end of their respective lines before heading downtown. I don't know if they turn into J14 or 26 South Shores though.

[Sam92]

I believe there are some.school trippers on the 106, 103, &.34 that operate from Corliss to the end of their respective lines before heading downtown. I don't know if they turn into J14 or 26 South Shores though.

That would explain why some artics show up at the Dan Ryan on those routes and others.

[jajuan]

That would explain why some artics show up at the Dan Ryan on those routes and others.

Similar to NP running artics on the 82 for school trippers from the high schools near my area to Congress then hopping the Ike into downtown to become a 135, 136 or some other express route in the PM rush or running artics on EB 152 from Lane to Lake Shore for those school trippers then deadheading on the Drive for similar purposes. Only difference is NP at least is able to get its buses somewhat closer to downtown than 103rd. As for Busjack's point of Limits and Archer closing within the last decade, while I get his point they don't really apply in that Art's example to counter my point about 77th doing the runs of the 8 that start at Roosevelt is the J14 which never operated from either of those garages during its previous incarnations as 14 S Lake Shore Express or 14 Jeffery Express.

[Sam92]

Similar to NP running artics on the 82 for school trippers from the high schools near my area to Congress then hopping the Ike into downtown to become a 135, 136 or some other express route in the PM rush or running artics on EB 152 from Lane to Lake Shore for those school trippers then deadheading on the Drive for similar purposes. Only difference is NP at least is able to get its buses somewhat closer to downtown than 103rd. As for Busjack's point of Limits and Archer closing within the last decade, while I get his point they don't really apply in that Art's example to counter my point about 77th doing the runs of the 8 that start at Roosevelt is the J14 which never operated from either of those garages during its previous incarnations as 14 S Lake Shore Express or 14 Jeffery Express.

103rd is as good as NP as the 14 gets off of I-90/94 a block away on Washington and layover. Along with the 192 interline and Dan Ryan routes becoming 29's or 28's interlining with X28's, 103rd can get them close their starting point.

[See Tea Eh]

The simple, obvious fact is that (a lot) more people are leaving downtown in the afternoon than are traveling into downtown in the afternoon. So, you need more away-from-downtown service than to-downtown service. Hence deadheads.

Sure, you can run some of them in service, somewhere, but if there isn't really ridership demand for the reverse-peak service, you're wasting money when you have a good alternative way of getting the bus downtown faster (in this case, leave 103rd Garage, hop on over to I-94, and ride straight up to the Washington Street exit). Deviating from that will just take longer, which means paying the driver more money and not likely resulting in any significant net gain in revenue. In the case where buses are deadheading to cycle back for multiple trips, even a few minutes increase in the scheduled trip/deadhead time means another bus needs to be added to the cycle, and that makes the cost go up significantly.

Deadheading may not look pretty, but it's something every transportation company has to do, because travel demand is never perfectly balanced.

[renardo870]

Similar to NP running artics on the 82 for school trippers from the high schools near my area to Congress then hopping the Ike into downtown to become a 135, 136 or some other express route in the PM rush or running artics on EB 152 from Lane to Lake Shore for those school trippers then deadheading on the Drive for similar purposes. Only difference is NP at least is able to get its buses somewhat closer to downtown than 103rd. As for Busjack's point of Limits and Archer closing within the last decade, while I get his point they don't really apply in that Art's example to counter my point about 77th doing the runs of the 8 that start at Roosevelt is the J14 which never operated from either of those garages during its previous incarnations as 14 S Lake Shore Express or 14 Jeffery Express.

14 has always deadheaded from 77th*/103rd in the PM rush to Washington/Jefferson via 1-94 service always at 4-6 minutes SB. Ran from 77th Garage from 1983 to 1988, split with 103rd from 1988-2003. School trippers from 15, 28, 30, 34, 100, 103, 106, 108, 111, 112, 119 and 169 always DH to downtown to help 6/14/26 and a few X28/29. 2/3/4/29 also uses DH from 77th for their PM trips as well. Most will use Lake Shore Dr to reach the start point of the PM trips.

[jajuan]

103rd is as good as NP as the 14 gets off of I-90/94 a block away on Washington and layover. Along with the 192 interline and Dan Ryan routes becoming 29's or 28's interlining with X28's, 103rd can get them close their starting point.

I see my point is being missed again, I meant getting close to downtown BEFORE the start of the deadheads. Sheesh. And I do think I conceded 103rd's position in having lost the 127 as a means to get 14 buses at the Jefferson and Washington start point. But the original discussion on this front wasn't about getting to a starting point but WHETHER A CERTAIN DEADHEAD IS NECESSARY IN THE FIRST PLACE. Art brought the now J14 route as a counter to my point about the 8 Halsted Roosevelt starts. My point he was countering was why do the runs those trips start out of 77th when those runs at least could be done from Kedzie with a shorter deadhead? In my concession in the 14/J14 case I pointed out that we're getting a bit into apples and oranges from the standpoint that 103rd has no other alternative but to make the long deadhead due to having fewer routes that could create a shorter deadhead and especially now with its artics for that route having unique markings and getting other unique features. So anyone still want to argue a deadhead from 77th for a Halsted trip starting at Roosevelt Road makes sense?