4300/4330-series DE60LF/D60LF - Updates

[BusHunter]

Happy to report that 4319 has indeed returned to service, I saw it today at 95th as I pulling in from doing my morning route. I can't remember exactly which route it was it was either R95 or R63. But yeah I believe all the 4300's should be in service now.

There are still a few that have problems. #4380 I've only spotted twice on Bustracker and one of those times it never left the terminal at CSU. #4370 was having a problem with it's rear doors not working, but that's probably been fixed for a while. #4391 wasn't appearing on Bustracker until last week. (All my reports of it were physical sightings.) #4348 had a similar problem. Some have been having problems with the destination signs not working like #4358, #4311 early on, #4332, #4340 the first few days. I believe #4390 had a defective window latch problem the first day in service. (that might have been a defect off the line) Else I can't think of anything off hand except the absence of #4313 for 5 months and #4319. (#4313 probably had something else wrong off the line) Probably CTA had to get parts through it's warranty with New Flyer to get those fixed. That's one reason why it took so long to get fixed. I doubt they have extra roof fins/spoilers hanging around at South Shops.

[Around the Horn]

There are still a few that have problems. #4380 I've only spotted twice on Bustracker and one of those times it never left the terminal at CSU. #4370 was having a problem with it's rear doors not working, but that's probably been fixed for a while. #4391 wasn't appearing on Bustracker until last week. (All my reports of it were physical sightings.) #4348 had a similar problem. Some have been having problems with the destination signs not working like #4358, #4311 early on, #4332, #4340 the first few days. I believe #4390 had a defective window latch problem the first day in service. (that might have been a defect off the line) Else I can't think of anything off hand except the absence of #4313 for 5 months and #4319. (#4313 probably had something else wrong off the line) Probably CTA had to get parts through it's warranty with New Flyer to get those fixed. That's one reason why it took so long to get fixed. I doubt they have extra roof fins/spoilers hanging around at South Shops.

Id love to see that

[geneking7320]

I have wondered when the 77th Garage would begin operating artics on #3 King Dr.

Today I was told by a driver that there is a tunnel at the north terminal which is too low for the height of the artics.

I don't know if she meant the hybrids or the clean diesels also. Since I haven't been to said terminal in some time I don't

know if she is right or not. Just thought I'd pass that along.

[Sam92]

I have wondered when the 77th Garage would begin operating artics on #3 King Dr.

Today I was told by a driver that there is a tunnel at the north terminal which is too low for the height of the artics.

I don't know if she meant the hybrids or the clean diesels also. Since I haven't been to said terminal in some time I don't

know if she is right or not. Just thought I'd pass that along.

Well last week I've seen some 4300's running on the 3. And the clearance issue can't be true because the 4000s have ran on the 3 before back when 77th had them.... Even seen a few last year in some fill ins or special events from time to time

[i8itall4u]

I have wondered when the 77th Garage would begin operating artics on #3 King Dr.

Today I was told by a driver that there is a tunnel at the north terminal which is too low for the height of the artics.

I don't know if she meant the hybrids or the clean diesels also. Since I haven't been to said terminal in some time I don't

know if she is right or not. Just thought I'd pass that along.

The tunnel is within the hospital complex between Erie and Ontario, east of McClurg Ct.

[Busjack]

The tunnel is within the hospital complex between Erie and Ontario, east of McClurg Ct.

Undoubtedly a combination of the pods are taller on NFs than NABIs, and with all the construction at NW Memorial, new obstructions undoubtedly have been built in the past maybe 7 years.

But, if it were Pace, CTA would reroute if getting to Fairbanks-Ontario were that important. And, in any event, sufficient artics won't be freed up until November.

[jajuan]

I've seen the tunnel in question and the fact remains that 77th had a heck of a lot more clean diesel artics than hybrids. So that operator's explanation she passed along still doesn't completely fly. As Sam pointed out 4000 series artics have run on the 3 for special events. And the artics should be freed up from the shuttles in October at the earliest since the Red Line project is scheduled to end October 19th.

[BusHunter]

I've seen the tunnel in question and the fact remains that 77th had a heck of a lot more clean diesel artics than hybrids. So that operator's explanation she passed along still doesn't completely fly. As Sam pointed out 4000 series artics have run on the 3 for special events. And the artics should be freed up from the shuttles in October at the earliest since the Red Line project is scheduled to end October 19th.

Looks like there's some merit to the clearance argument. #4322 has been transferred to 103rd. It's on the #6 today. Also #4332 was recently spotted at 103rd, so 77th shouldn't have any more hybrids.

[jajuan]

Looks like there's some merit to the clearance argument. #4322 has been transferred to 103rd. It's on the #6 today. Also #4332 was recently spotted at 103rd, so 77th shouldn't have any more hybrids.

No I meant the clearance issue didn't hold as far as clean diesel artics were concerned and that 77th had so few hybrid artics for the clearance not to be an issue since clean diesel artics could be used. No tall roof fins and pods. No clearance problem. I should have clarified that prior use of artics on the 3 when 77th had 4000 series artics was before the tunnel within the hospital complex was built.

[BusHunter]

No I meant the clearance issue didn't hold as far as clean diesel artics were concerned and that 77th had so few hybrid artics for the clearance not to be an issue since clean diesel artics could be used. No tall roof fins and pods. No clearance problem. I should have clarified that prior use of artics on the 3 when 77th had 4000 series artics was before the tunnel within the hospital complex was built.

I guess they don't want a repeat of #4319. Their lucky the hybrid order was small. If it was large they would have a real problem. Hopefully if the Ashland BRT project does happen they will check to see if these types of buses have any clearance issues.

[geneking7320]

Does anyone know the difference in height between the 40xx hybrids vs the 43xx hybrids?

[BusHunter]

#4394, currently on the #4, is now at 77th. It was at 103rd. This bus I believe was one of the two swapped for the two hybrids (#4322, #4332) The other one I believe is #4393.

[RJL6000]

And since the beginning of the Red Line Dan Ryan reconstruction project, Route #79 has reverted to being run entirely with 40-footers, while 77th's artics have continued to be used on the #4 (and occasionally, the #3 and the couple of PM rush runs on the #29 operated out of 77th).

[Sam92]

And since the beginning of the Red Line Dan Ryan reconstruction project, Route #79 has reverted to being run entirely with 40-footers, while 77th's artics have continued to be used on the #4 (and occasionally, the #3 and the couple of PM rush runs on the #29 operated out of 77th).

Seen a 77th artic running on the #2 Hyde Park Express earlier. Couldn't see the fleet number cause I was across the street from it but I was around Wacker and State.

[YoungBusLover]

one of the young early 4300`s was involved in a crash on 103rd street and it looks to be totaled in the front end,but it could return to service.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-51cbb96c/turbine/chi-130626-cta-bus-crash-photograph/600/600x355

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-06-26/news/chi-four-hurt-when-cta-bus-dump-truck-collide-20130626_1_four-hurt-cta-bus-dump-truck

[busfan2847]

one of the young early 4300`s was involved in a crash on 103rd street and it looks to be totaled in the front end,but it could return to service.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-51cbb96c/turbine/chi-130626-cta-bus-crash-photograph/600/600x355

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-06-26/news/chi-four-hurt-when-cta-bus-dump-truck-collide-20130626_1_four-hurt-cta-bus-dump-truck

It is 4323

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=9153783

[jajuan]

Hmmm barely six months in that the 4300s have been in service and already one is wrecked kind of bad (not counting the roof fin damage to 4319) due to possible Chicago bad driving.

[trainman8119]

My first thought when I saw the story this morning...could it have been one of the 400 new operators

hired making an error in judgement entering the garage ?

[Sam92]

My first thought when I saw the story this morning...could it have been one of the 400 new operators

hired making an error in judgement entering the garage ?

I wouldn't doubt it... You should see how many of these shuttle drivers get stuck trying to make turns in the terminal at 95th :lol:

[jajuan]

I wouldn't doubt it... You should see how many of these shuttle drivers get stuck trying to make turns in the terminal at 95th

Wow Sam. You're making me even more glad I don't need to go within the south Red Line's regular service area anytime soon. I already cringe at the number of new operators I've been seeing getting trained by line instructors on the 22 during recent weekends. And we all know that the 22 is primarily run by artics on the weekends.

[Sam92]

Wow Sam. You're making me even more glad I don't need to go within the south Red Line's regular service area anytime soon. I already cringe at the number of new operators I've been seeing getting trained by line instructors on the 22 during recent weekends. And we all know that the 22 is primarily run by artics on the weekends.

I'm just glad it's mostly happened during night time. It's always the corner that the 29 normally exits from with shuttles going to lay over after dropping off passengers. 103rd'a seemed to be getting the most new drivers because the weeks after the Decrowding plan started, many N5 drivers asked us for directions along with that one incident where a 95E driver ended up making a 3 - point turn from Avalon because of a wrong turn at Woodlawn. 103rd's got a lot of long and winding routes though so I guess you can't blame'em on that part.

[BusHunter]

Wow Sam. You're making me even more glad I don't need to go within the south Red Line's regular service area anytime soon. I already cringe at the number of new operators I've been seeing getting trained by line instructors on the 22 during recent weekends. And we all know that the 22 is primarily run by artics on the weekends.

Just don't ask for directions. There was an operator out of Chicago going north on Cicero at Armitage and a customer was asking how to get to Menard and North. Well she said "you just take the Armitage bus to Menard". I was surprised she didn't even know about a route out of her own garage. I hope she's not driving the #73 anytime soon or they can pick her up at Grand/Nordica most likely.

[artthouwill]

Occasionally I see Line Instructors with trainees driving on CTA and Pace routes. I don't know how much training time new drivers get on each route from their garage, but I imagine it isn't more than a day. It could be less than that,.even for a transfer from another garage. Brand new hires are probably just getting comfortable with these new and much bigger vehicles,.and trying to negotiate traffic while dealing with crazy riders, and trying to remember a route they may have been on once, especially if they are not familiar with that part of town. I know people who know the south side very well west of the Ryan. .Anything east of.the Ryan is foreign territory. I can only imagine them on the north side. Just because someone works at a given garage doesn't make them familiar with that garage's service area.

[Busjack]

... There was an operator out of Chicago going north on Cicero at Armitage and a customer was asking how to get to Menard and North. Well she said "you just take the Armitage bus to Menard". I was surprised she didn't even know about a route out of her own garage. I hope she's not driving the #73 anytime soon or they can pick her up at Grand/Nordica most likely.

If I comprehend the question properly, the passenger was already 4 blocks too far north when he or she asked. Then the only question would have been in which direction is Menard relative to Cicero. I'd assume west, since it starts with an M. However. looking at the map, it appears that a rail yard and a lot over which an alderman got convicted keep Menard from reaching 2000N, and as you also imply, the 73 bus ends at Grand at about 5300 West. The last two are not obvious.

Thus, having heard "North," I suppose the driver should have said "backtrack 4 blocks," but on the other hand, the passenger should have heard Mr. CTA say "Boing, North."

[artthouwill]

Just don't ask for directions. There was an operator out of Chicago going north on Cicero at Armitage and a customer was asking how to get to Menard and North. Well she said "you just take the Armitage bus to Menard". I was surprised she didn't even know about a route out of her own garage. I hope she's not driving the #73 anytime soon or they can pick her up at Grand/Nordica most likely.

Just don't ask for directions. There was an operator out of Chicago going north on Cicero at Armitage and a customer was asking how to get to Menard and North. Well she said "you just take the Armitage bus to Menard". I was surprised she didn't even know about a route out of her own garage. I hope she's not driving the #73 anytime soon or they can pick her up at Grand/Nordica most likely.

Rereading this post by BusHunter, some things jumped out at me. First, the bus was going northbound on Cicero at Armitage. The correct answer would have been to take a SB Cicero bus to North Ave, then take a WB North Ave bus to Menard (5800W). It is possible that this operator has never driven the 73 Armitage or 72 North for that matter. That is why I mentioned route training in an earlier post. It seems a new driver might get one day (if that) of training on a given route, but if you are an extra board driver, you could wind up anywhere. For instance, a rookie driver out of Chicago Garage could see a lot of action on Madison, Chicago Ave, Cicero, and Pulaski Ave, then one day wind up on the 65 Grand. Let's suppose this day they have to pull out of the Garage and pick up the route going eastbound from Chicago & Grand going to Navy Pier. Then going WB on route, they get to Grand and Homan. Anyone familiar with that area knows that you have to turn left, go under viaduct, and turn right to continue on Grand. if you keep straight and not turn left, that street becomes Homan. If that driver misses that turn, now that driver is driving the 82 and may not be aware of it since there are bus stops along Homan. South siders who drive out of a south side garage should be familiar with that territory, but if based on seniority they get bounced west or north, they will have problems if they have never or rarely been in those parts of town. ,

Back to the topic at hand, my guess is the bus involved in the accident was a J14? To the east of the garage along the bridge at 103rd is a trucking company (I believe). To the north of the 103rd garage, there are trucks there, accessible by a service road that runs west of the garage. Also many trucks are coming from the northbound Bishop ford at the 103rd st exit as well as trucks coming from Doty Rd East. Also traffic travels at a high rate of speed through this area, as there is really nothing around there. Can't tell rrom the pic if this accident happend on 103rd or as the bus was turning into the garage area.