Ventra - Bugs, Feedback, and Questions

[Kevin]

38 minutes ago, jajuan said:

You only have to get past the mistrust some folks have about their credit/debit card info being shared by phone.

Which is probably the easiest way to obtain stolen credit card numbers. Just ask Miranda Smith.

10 minutes ago, Busjack said:

As of a year ago last Friday.

On the reader point, Scooter Libbby pointed out on the CTA Tattler that these were not EMV chips. However, given how  slow boarding is already, I don't see how transit could wait for the time it takes for the chip to get the info it needs,* and then give the user the message that one can remove the card from the slot.

*A receipt I got from Trader Joe's has five return codes.

The Ventra fare readers are not subject to the EMV liability deadline (which went into effect October 1, 2015). That liability shift only applies to magnetic stripe transactions. Contactless transactions are subject to different processing rules.

It's the Ventra vending machines that are affected by the liability shift. In this case, the mag stripe card reader would need to be swapped out with an EMV-compatible reader. As of last October, Ventra/CTA could be liable for transactions performed at these machines with counterfeit credit cards.*

––

* Specifically, liability would apply to Ventra if someone "skimmed" mag stripe data from a chip-enabled card and then made a counterfeit mag stripe-only card with that information. An EMV-enabled terminal would know that the card is supposed to have a chip, and therefore would refuse to process the transaction. A mag-stripe only terminal would happily process the counterfeit card. Ventra does protect itself slightly by requiring a zip code, but that could be guessable by using the same zip code of the location of where the cards were skimmed.

[Busjack]

48 minutes ago, Kevin said:

The Ventra fare readers are not subject to the EMV liability deadline (which went into effect October 1, 2015). That liability shift only applies to magnetic stripe transactions. Contactless transactions are subject to different processing rules.

My point wasn't whether CTA or Cubic had any liability for transactions on fraudulent Ventra cards, but the physical impracticability of using EMV cards on readers at turnstiles or bus entrances.

A related point, which I made in connection with a much earlier discussion with you (but not directly involving Ventra), was that I couldn't see sticking and keeping an EMV card in a gas pump, and I read somewhere that that deadline had been postponed.

48 minutes ago, Kevin said:

It's the Ventra vending machines that are affected by the liability shift. In this case, the mag stripe card reader would need to be swapped out with an EMV-compatible reader.

Again, not directly in point, very few places have activated the EMV slot, and Trader Joe's was the only one where the cashier directed me to use it. On the other hand, Fresh Thyme has "no chip" taped over the slot.

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

As of a year ago last Friday.

On the reader point, Scooter Libbby pointed out on the CTA Tattler that these were not EMV chips. However, given how  slow boarding is already, I don't see how transit could wait for the time it takes for the chip to get the info it needs,* and then give the user the message that one can remove the card from the slot.

*A receipt I got from Trader Joe's has five return codes.

Oops my brain was still stuck in 2015 there. And basically you were right about a year ago that the banks were taking the debit/credit part of universal in the opposite direction when you said that in response to Chase and others discontinuing blink cards and having temporarily issued chipless cards while they worked on getting EMV chip cards available to their customers. 

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

The way they make your smart phone a Ventra machine in these ads, I would bet that they will phase out some machines soon. It's getting where if you don't have a smart phone or debit card you can't ride the bus or train.

That could only happen in the city though as the point has been made by many of our suburban friends that vending machine availability in the burbs is already sparse.

50 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Which is probably the easiest way to obtain stolen credit card numbers. Just ask Miranda Smith.

The Ventra fare readers are not subject to the EMV liability deadline (which went into effect October 1, 2015). That liability shift only applies to magnetic stripe transactions. Contactless transactions are subject to different processing rules.

It's the Ventra vending machines that are affected by the liability shift. In this case, the mag stripe card reader would need to be swapped out with an EMV-compatible reader. As of last October, Ventra/CTA could be liable for transactions performed at these machines with counterfeit credit cards.*

––

* Specifically, liability would apply to Ventra if someone "skimmed" mag stripe data from a chip-enabled card and then made a counterfeit mag stripe-only card with that information. An EMV-enabled terminal would know that the card is supposed to have a chip, and therefore would refuse to process the transaction. A mag-stripe only terminal would happily process the counterfeit card. Ventra does protect itself slightly by requiring a zip code, but that could be guessable by using the same zip code of the location of where the cards were skimmed.

The vending machine part of your response is precisely why I stick with using my smart phone to reload my card and almost never use a physical vending machine at the L stations or other locations for reloading or checking my card. 

[Kevin]

26 minutes ago, Busjack said:

My point wasn't whether CTA or Cubic had any liability for transactions on fraudulent Ventra cards, but the physical impracticability of using EMV cards on readers at turnstiles or bus entrances.

Understood. I was mostly responding to jajuan's inquiry regarding fare reader compatibility with EMV chips, pointing out that it's not an issue in this scenario.

[Busjack]

I see that both CTA (Press Release) and Pace (Moving Forward) are both touting that Metra has had the 1 millionth ride using the Ventra app, which I find curious because the app can't be used directly to get a ride on CTA or Pace until the NFID feature is implemented.

[Busjack]

On 1/7/2016 at 3:25 PM, Busjack said:

Again, not directly in point, very few places have activated the EMV slot, and Trader Joe's was the only one where the cashier directed me to use it. On the other hand, Fresh Thyme has "no chip" taped over the slot.

 Another interesting sidelight--the local Jewel (which looks like a Dominick's) had a card stuck in the slot, saying "Coming Soon."

[rondell]

I'm wondering if anyone else has had problems with their Ventra cards or tickets in the last 2 1/2 years. Leave me answers 

[strictures]

4 hours ago, rondell said:

I'm wondering if anyone else has had problems with their Ventra cards or tickets in the last 2 1/2 years. Leave me answers 

Who hasn't had problems with Ventra cards?

The biggest problem is on CTA buses that have trouble making contact with whatever cellular provider that Ventra uses. If the bus can't make contact, then you get repeated "Tap Again" notice on the card reader. I have the occasional trouble even at L stations, where I thought it was a wired connection. Then you have to complain & they send out someone to check out that turnstile. When I first got the card, the east turnstile at Granville never worked for me & I've always used the west one, as I have no idea if they've fixed it in all that time!

[BusHunter]

I learned something sneaky that Ventra is doing. When you enter a station if you exit like you forgot something or whatever and re enter within 10-15 minutes ventra will charge you the $2.25 regardless of if you're on a pass or whatever. This happened to me twice but I caught up with it last time. I was at Wilson/Red I boarded and looking at the station wanted to see something at street level so I boarded again after taking pictures at street level.  It charged me. I was thinking why would they do this and it must be because of the fraudulent card use, people sharing passes or whatever, they have decided to charge anyone that boards twice. Instead of denying you with a pass back or repeat use error something like the old magnetic stripped cards used to do, they nonchalantly let you pass through. You think you are Ok until you see the bill!! Sneaky ain't it!!

[Pace831]

9 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I learned something sneaky that Ventra is doing. When you enter a station if you exit like you forgot something or whatever and re enter within 10-15 minutes ventra will charge you the $2.25 regardless of if you're on a pass or whatever. This happened to me twice but I caught up with it last time. I was at Wilson/Red I boarded and looking at the station wanted to see something at street level so I boarded again after taking pictures at street level.  It charged me. I was thinking why would they do this and it must be because of the fraudulent card use, people sharing passes or whatever, they have decided to charge anyone that boards twice. Instead of denying you with a pass back or repeat use error something like the old magnetic stripped cards used to do, they nonchalantly let you pass through. You think you are Ok until you see the bill!! Sneaky ain't it!!

You pretty much got the reason correct. If you use your card within a certain amount of time at the same station (15 minutes, if I remember previous discussions correctly), the system thinks you passed the card back to a second rider and charges the full fare.

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, BusHunter said:

I learned something sneaky that Ventra is doing. When you enter a station if you exit like you forgot something or whatever and re enter within 10-15 minutes ventra will charge you the $2.25 regardless of if you're on a pass or whatever. This happened to me twice but I caught up with it last time. I was at Wilson/Red I boarded and looking at the station wanted to see something at street level so I boarded again after taking pictures at street level.  It charged me. I was thinking why would they do this and it must be because of the fraudulent card use, people sharing passes or whatever, they have decided to charge anyone that boards twice. Instead of denying you with a pass back or repeat use error something like the old magnetic stripped cards used to do, they nonchalantly let you pass through. You think you are Ok until you see the bill!! Sneaky ain't it!!

Why not just use the auxiliary entrance for one of the boardings.  That should be the workaround for that. 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Why not just use the auxiliary entrance for one of the boardings.  That should be the workaround for that. 

Depends on whether the auxiliary entrance is still considered the same station (and whether the station has one).

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Why not just use the auxiliary entrance for one of the boardings.  That should be the workaround for that. 

I did just that, it doesn't matter, first boarding was at the broadway station house second boarding was on Wilson south entrance.

[Busjack]

Daily Herald article that someone hacked the Ventra app., but not in a particularly interesting way.

[Pace831]

Has anyone else seen "READ None" in their transaction history? I got on the bus and tapped my card, heard the tone that the reader had detected the card, then I noticed it said Not In Use. The driver seemed surprised, like he'd never seen that before. He asked me to try again, so I did and the same thing happened. So apparently the reader could recognize my card but not collect a fare.

[BusHunter]

What Ventra topic? (and I don't know how to move quotes between topics either!! ) I've only been here 8 years, but I guess I'm a slow learner. 

Yeah, the latest gimmick I've come across is when your pass is going to expire, Pace tells you that the card expired early and you have insufficient funds. Like wth, what if I'm out somewhere and don't have change. I knock on busjack's door and say "please help someone"

[sw4400]

15 minutes ago, garmon757 said:

That's been an ongoing issue on the entire Ventra system because I had that pathetic problem on both CTA and Pace buses, especially when I was trying to use it on #352 but it kept on saying insufficient funds. Like how is that possible if I had $54.00 on my card???

(Reply back on the Ventra Topic)

It's probably the chip is temporarily unreadable or the card is damaged if it doesn't read at all, period. Sometimes when I tap the card for a customer at Jewel to add balance or a new pass, it says "Receive Error" and I have to do it again(and maybe again) until it reads the balance and any passes on there so I can add more cash value or another pass.

[sw4400]

9 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

What Ventra topic? (and I don't know how to move quotes between topics either!! ) I've only been here 8 years, but I guess I'm a slow learner. 

Yeah, the latest gimmick I've come across is when your pass is going to expire, Pace tells you that the card expired early and you have insufficient funds. Like wth, what if I'm out somewhere and don't have change. I knock on busjack's door and say "please help someone"

Use the "+" button on the post you want to quote from(you can do more than one with this button), @BusHunter. Then go to your topic for reply, and press the "Quote X Post" button in the lower right corner of the screen after you select the reply dialogue box at the bottom of the thread..

[BusHunter]

3 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

Use the "+" button on the post you want to quote from(you can do more than one with this button), @BusHunter. Then go to your topic for reply, and press the "Quote X Post" button in the lower right corner of the screen after you select the reply dialogue box at the bottom of the thread..

Hey what do you know it actually works!! Thanks SW, I just learned something. How are you guys doing the green box saying @BusHunter Hey wait I just learned that too!! That's good cause I don't always like to quote people especially when the post is long, don't be offended people if I don't always quote your posts.

[sw4400]

@garmon757, do you use the CTA & Pace frequently? I was just looking at what you mentioned about the $54 on the card. Wouldn't it be prudent if you use CTA on an almost daily basis to get a 7-Day Pass($28 for CTA only, $33 for CTA & Pace) or a 30-Day Pass for $100? I know fare is only $2.25, but it's piece of mind so you can get around with unlimited rides for a 7 or 30-Day period.

[BusHunter]

12 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

@garmon757, do you use the CTA & Pace frequently? I was just looking at what you mentioned about the $54 on the card. Wouldn't it be prudent if you use CTA on an almost daily basis to get a 7-Day Pass($28 for CTA only, $33 for CTA & Pace) or a 30-Day Pass for $100? I know fare is only $2.25, but it's piece of mind so you can get around with unlimited rides for a 7 or 30-Day period.

It's great for bushunting!! I'd go broke without a pass. It's handy too, when you want to see something you don't have to screw around with rules and regulations (2 hour transfers) You are god!!

 

[garmon757]

2 hours ago, sw4400 said:

@garmon757, do you use the CTA & Pace frequently? I was just looking at what you mentioned about the $54 on the card. Wouldn't it be prudent if you use CTA on an almost daily basis to get a 7-Day Pass($28 for CTA only, $33 for CTA & Pace) or a 30-Day Pass for $100? I know fare is only $2.25, but it's piece of mind so you can get around with unlimited rides for a 7 or 30-Day period.

I always use a 7-Day pass. The money I have on my card is for Pace (because I don't ride it that much except when I go visit my mother) and for saving (you can use the actual money on your Ventra card to purchase any pass and Metra tickets without using your debit/credit card).

[verive.m]

My roommate noticed this the other day. How would the app know that he transferred between Red and Brown at Fullerton? There's no farecard tapping involved in the transfer.

[Pace831]

5 hours ago, verive.m said:

My roommate noticed this the other day. How would the app know that he transferred between Red and Brown at Fullerton? There's no farecard tapping involved in the transfer.

It was a "transfer" because it was within two hours of the first use at Diversey. Even if you have a pass, where transfer rules don't really matter, the system still distinguishes between the first use and transfers. He must have left the paid area and re-entered for that to appear. The time stamps are further evidence he left the station, since such a short trip shouldn't take that long.

Furthermore, the Brown line also stops at Fullerton, so "Red" is only a way to classify the stations. This looks like two trips from Diversey to Fullerton and back.

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, verive.m said:

My roommate noticed this the other day. How would the app know that he transferred between Red and Brown at Fullerton? There's no farecard tapping involved in the transfer.

 

1 hour ago, Pace831 said:

It was a "transfer" because it was within two hours of the first use at Diversey.

That doesn't answer the question. The question is why it racked up a transfer, if there was no farecard tap on the cross platform transfer.

However, I don't think it was as verive's friend said either, as it usually doesn't take 1 hour and 31 minutes to get from Diversey to Fullerton.

Also, since he or she is on a U Pass, it doesn't matter.