7900-series Nova LFS - Updates

[ajm522]

7979 is on #4 northbound.

[BusHunter]

#7974 is on the #1

[BusHunter]

Here's some more shots of #7900's including #7974's first trip to the loop.

#7974:

#7971:

#7968:

#7937:

#7935:

[andrethebusman]

Just as they did with the Flyers and MANs. I was at FG when they retired those buses. They shipped most if not all the remaining of those series to FG until the first gen. Novas arrived. That was the last time FG received any new equipment directly from the factory.

First assignment sheet that shows 4000's at FG is 10/3/01, with 34 assigned. At the time, Kedzie still had 24, North Park 69, 74th 6 and 103rd 4. 4/1/02 shows 35 FG, 43 NP,19 K. none at 74 or 103. 7/1/02 has 16 at F, 46 NP, 18 K, 9/23/02 has 41 P, 23 K, none at FG. So last ones were NP and K.

[Busjack]

...So last ones were NP and K.

That's true, because they hung around those garages until those garages got NABIs.

[jajuan]

First assignment sheet that shows 4000's at FG is 10/3/01, with 34 assigned. At the time, Kedzie still had 24, North Park 69, 74th 6 and 103rd 4. 4/1/02 shows 35 FG, 43 NP,19 K. none at 74 or 103. 7/1/02 has 16 at F, 46 NP, 18 K, 9/23/02 has 41 P, 23 K, none at FG. So last ones were NP and K.

That's true, because they hung around those garages until those garages got NABIs.

True the MAN 4000s final garages were at NP and K. Though by December of 2002 all of K's were gone or transterred to NP. And the last ones ever survived at NP into 2004. NABIs didn't arrive on the scene for CTA service until 2003 so MAN 4000s didn't stick around at K until NABIs arrived there. By the time K got NABIs, MAN 4000s were already long gone from K months prior. The MANs sticking around had more to do with 125 and 156 not yet getting the wheelchair accessible designation at K until December 2002 along with those two being operated mainly with 40 foot buses still during that time and 135, 145 and 146 not yet having the accessible designation at NP until 2004. By the time the last MANs in the entire fleet got retired from passenger service at NP, NP had actually had been operating NABIs going on a year. Either way the MANs, finished their service as a series at NP, not FG. So it really does need to stop getting said that the MAN 4000s died at FG when it's been pointed out SEVERAL times over by other members including myself that that statement is NOT true.

[Busjack]

I don't know why I get the cursor only at the top, but

Again, the loser leave town wrestling match fallacy. They were not designated accessible until they got accessible buses. No different than some date in September 1995, when suddenly 9, 55, 63, and 67 became accessible all at once. They didn't have New Looks before that because CTA designated them nonaccessible, but because they wouldn't put accessible buses at 69th..

The thing that was surprising was that 484 Novas weren't enough to retire 190 some Flyers plus 340 some MANs, having assumed that some had already dropped off the roster. But actually doing the math, about 45 were not directly replaceable.

The MANs sticking around had more to do with 125 and 156 not yet getting the wheelchair accessible designation at K until December 2002 along with those two being operated mainly with 40 foot buses still during that time and 135, 145 and 146 not yet having the accessible designation at NP until 2004.....

[andrethebusman]

I don't know why I get the cursor only at the top, but

Again, the loser leave town wrestling match fallacy. They were not designated accessible until they got accessible buses. No different than some date in September 1995, when suddenly 9, 55, 63, and 67 became accessible all at once. They didn't have New Looks before that because CTA designated them nonaccessible, but because they wouldn't put accessible buses at 69th..

The thing that was surprising was that 484 Novas weren't enough to retire 190 some Flyers plus 340 some MANs, having assumed that some had already dropped off the roster. But actually doing the math, about 45 were not directly replaceable.

As of 9/2000 there were 328 4000's at K, P, 6, 03, 112 100/9800's at A,F,7. As of 9/2002 when all Novas were in, the count was 64 4000's at K and P. The other big change was 71 MAN Artics had been replaced by 114 Seattle Artics. But the total count went up dramatically from 1863 to 2013 (by 150). Only other losses in that time were 2 4400's, 1 4900 (4905), 9 5300's.

The other thing that pops out is that in 2000, the 4400's were assigned in numerically-sequential groups, whereas when they were air conditioned, assignments became random. 4400's in 2000 were at all garages except 103rd, in late 2002 they were gone from Archer and Forest Glen, and a large contingent was at 103rd. 5300's in 2000 were at A, C, F, 03, 2002 at A, K, 7, 03, 6000's in 2000 at K, 6, 7, in 2002 at F, K, 6, 7. 4900's went from Chicago to 103rd after 16-Lake was abandoned.

So basically 6400-6516 replaced 9800's and 4400's at 77th, with 5300's replacing most of the other 6000's, 6517-6633 replacing 9800's, 4400's at Archer, 6634-6755 replacing 4400/4900's at Chicago, 6756-6883 replacing 1600/9800's, 4400's at Forest Glen, with 6000's replacing the 5300's there.

[jajuan]

The other part to consider is that CTA was actually in kind of a service improvement/expansion phase during the prior decade compared to the current service trimming and slim operations mindset of that now prevails in this decade. I say that due to the crosstown express or X routes increasing in number from the initial 3L (later to become X3 in the Lake Shore route realignment), X21, X49 and 53AL to include the X4, X9, X20, X28 (after the initial experiment of the 28 as all day express service was rethought in part at the request of Hyde Park residents), X54, X55 and X80 as well as adding 15, 26, 134, 143, 144 and 148 and expanding service hours on the 14 and 147 in the before mentioned Lake Shore realignment study and its subsequent updates and adjustments.

[BusHunter]

As of 9/2000 there were 328 4000's at K, P, 6, 03, 112 100/9800's at A,F,7. As of 9/2002 when all Novas were in, the count was 64 4000's at K and P. The other big change was 71 MAN Artics had been replaced by 114 Seattle Artics.

So basically 6400-6516 replaced 9800's and 4400's at 77th, with 5300's replacing most of the other 6000's, 6517-6633 replacing 9800's, 4400's at Archer, 6634-6755 replacing 4400/4900's at Chicago, 6756-6883 replacing 1600/9800's, 4400's at Forest Glen, with 6000's replacing the 5300's there.

The #1000's are what replaced the #4400's and #5300's as they are and continue to be holding the slot for 3/4 of CTA buses. (1,000 buses roughly) The #6000's were mainly retired from service cuts, but I believe a few may have been retired from #4000 artics. I remember when the #6400's came in, the first change was sending the #9900's from 77th to FG and then the Archer ones showed up. Some retired out of Archer and FG about 50/50. Then basically what was left of the MAN #4000's came to FG as they were still non accessible on a few routes. As they gained accessibility though those moved on to serve mainly the north LSD corridors of Kedzie and NP garages. In time Kedzie's #4000's whittled down to nothing and NP became the last garage with #4000's. I have most of this documented on here if you click the links on my rosters and read the threads including what bus numbers they were

[jajuan]

The #1000's are what replaced the #4400's and #5300's as they are and continue to be holding the slot for 3/4 of CTA buses. (1,000 buses roughly) The #6000's were mainly retired from service cuts, but I believe a few may have been retired from #4000 artics. I remember when the #6400's came in, the first change was sending the #9900's from 77th to FG and then the Archer ones showed up. Some retired out of Archer and FG about 50/50. Then basically what was left of the MAN #4000's came to FG as they were still non accessible on a few routes. As they gained accessibility though those moved on to serve mainly the north LSD corridors of Kedzie and NP garages. In time Kedzie's #4000's whittled down to nothing and NP became the last garage with #4000's. I have most of this documented on here if you click the links on my rosters and read the threads including what bus numbers they were

He wasn't denying any of that. His point was the MAN 4000s didn't come to FG to die or therefore end their service lives there as a series. They came there as a temporary stop gap between the Flyer 9800s ending their CTA service lives in 2002 while the 69, 91 and 152 at FG weren't yet accessible and those routes becoming accessible mainly by the last of the 6400s getting delivered there and pushing what FG MAN buses remained up to NP. That's something several of us including myself have said and your tabulating the rosters back up. His other point was to show that the 7300s replacing the 7100s actually increased the number of buses needing to be replaced at the time the 6400s were coming in to Busjack's point about what was getting replaced since CTA did bill the 6400s as meant to be replacement's for the Flyer D901As and the MAN 4000s.

[garmon757]

No 8000s yet but shots of #7961, #7965, #7966, #7985, and the rear engine/electrical compartment (#7959).

[BusHunter]

No 8000s yet but shots of #7961, #7965, #7966, #7985, and the rear engine/electrical compartment (#7959).

We're probably not going to see the #8000's until the next batch order for 50 starts delivering. My thinking is they want to try and get the #7900's here by the bad winter weather and maybe by then we might start seeing the low #8000's. If that is the case deliveries may all be in blocks versus numerical order. They have now delivered over half of the #7900 block, (in the low 50's) so it sounds like they should all be here (#7900's at least) by Mid December.

[Busjack]

We're probably not going to see the #8000's until the next batch order for 50 starts delivering. My thinking is they want to try and get the #7900's here by the bad winter weather and maybe by then we might start seeing the low #8000's. If that is the case deliveries may all be in blocks versus numerical order. They have now delivered over half of the #7900 block, (in the low 50's) so it sounds like they should all be here (#7900's at least) by Mid December.

Does anyone have a compliation of how many of the first 100 have been received? (just asking)

[BusHunter]

Does anyone have a compliation of how many of the first 100 have been received? (just asking)

That's in the bus rosters thread page 22

Quick Answer: 39 in service, 14 at south shops = 53 on CTA property

[BusHunter]

#7954 is on the #8

[BusHunter]

#7954 is on the #8

A few shots of #7900's:

#7954:

#7962:

#7924:

[garmon757]

#7959 is on #3 right now.

[BusHunter]

#7959 is on #3 right now.

#7988's on the #2 leaving navy pier. #7923's on the #2 also about 30-40 minutes behind #7988.

[BusHunter]

#7988's on the #2 leaving navy pier. #7923's on the #2 also about 30-40 minutes behind #7988.

Never did see #7923. It popped up for a minute and disappeared. Took some night shots of #7959 and #7988 though. I'll post later.

[BusHunter]

Never did see #7923. It popped up for a minute and disappeared. Took some night shots of #7959 and #7988 though. I'll post later.

Here are those night shots I was talking about. While not the best, you can see the bus at least. I'll see if I can get us some better shots in the future.

#7959:

#7988:

[BusHunter]

#7947 is on the #2

[garmon757]

No point of taking more shots of them anymore. I'm just going to get to the point by saying that #7980 and #7986 are present. #7961, #7965, #7966 and #7985 should be in service this week at the least.

[YoungBusLover]

#7991 is on the 3 heading SB,and #7884 is on the 87

[Mr.cta85]

No point of taking more shots of them anymore. I'm just going to get to the point by saying that #7980 and #7986 are present. #7961, #7965, #7966 and #7985 should be in service this week at the least.

Yea you're absolutely right since they're rolling in good now. Make your job much easier lol. We've all gotta good look at them so Yea I feel you on that.